the forward head on my p-42 seems to fill the bowl after I flush (electric) If I shut off the intake seacock it will stop. I just pumped out the holding tank so I know it is not backflow from this tank. Could the siphon break be plugged I believe this boat may have an electric solenoid valve but can not find high loop or solenoid
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T
Terry
Hi Carisea, we have a P42 and had a similar...
problem, at least the symptom sounds the same. It turned out to be the holding tank vent scupper. Either critters had built a nest in the scupper, or more likely the tank over filled and backed up solids into the vent line to the scupper screen. I too emptied the holding tank, but after just a few flushes, the water just swirled in the toilet bowl. City water pressure cleared my vent line and it has worked great since. I wrote an article a few months ago. Should be in the archives. I disconnected the vent line from the (first pull up the sole) tank, connected the city water hose to the tank side of the vent line, then I took a small screw driver and gently worked it around the scupper screen hanging over the side of the boat. At first just a hiss, then a whoosh of water followed when the plug dissolved. You might first try taking a piece of large hose that will fit around the scupper and blow to see if the vent is plugged. If so then spraying city water into the scupper might dissolve the solids. At least this would be easier than pulling up the sole. Good luck. Terry
problem, at least the symptom sounds the same. It turned out to be the holding tank vent scupper. Either critters had built a nest in the scupper, or more likely the tank over filled and backed up solids into the vent line to the scupper screen. I too emptied the holding tank, but after just a few flushes, the water just swirled in the toilet bowl. City water pressure cleared my vent line and it has worked great since. I wrote an article a few months ago. Should be in the archives. I disconnected the vent line from the (first pull up the sole) tank, connected the city water hose to the tank side of the vent line, then I took a small screw driver and gently worked it around the scupper screen hanging over the side of the boat. At first just a hiss, then a whoosh of water followed when the plug dissolved. You might first try taking a piece of large hose that will fit around the scupper and blow to see if the vent is plugged. If so then spraying city water into the scupper might dissolve the solids. At least this would be easier than pulling up the sole. Good luck. Terry
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Does waste in the bowl go down?
If it does, and if you're sure the tank IS empty (going to the pumpout doesn't necessarily mean the the tank was actually pumped out), I doubt if it's a blocked vent. A blocked vent would pressurize the tank and the backpressure would prevent the toilet from flushing. So if the toilet flushes with no problem--the discharge isn't sluggish...the only problem is, the bowl continues to fill with water after you stop flushing, the problem has to be in the toilet. Most likely, the solenoid isn't shutting off the intake pump. The solenoid location and the location of any vented loops that are integral to the toilet (assuming there are any) are shown in the exploded drawing in the manual for the toilet --which should be in a file with all the rest of the equipment manuals on your boat--but if the previous owner wasn't smart enough to keep 'em, you can get one off the Jabsco website (link below). Nevertheless, it would be a VERY good idea to check both your tank vent thru-hull for a blockage and your tank to make sure it really is empty. Since most vent blockages occur at the thru-hull, it shouldn't be necessary to disconnect the vent from the tank to blow water through it...just dig the blockage out of the thru-hull with a screw driver.
If it does, and if you're sure the tank IS empty (going to the pumpout doesn't necessarily mean the the tank was actually pumped out), I doubt if it's a blocked vent. A blocked vent would pressurize the tank and the backpressure would prevent the toilet from flushing. So if the toilet flushes with no problem--the discharge isn't sluggish...the only problem is, the bowl continues to fill with water after you stop flushing, the problem has to be in the toilet. Most likely, the solenoid isn't shutting off the intake pump. The solenoid location and the location of any vented loops that are integral to the toilet (assuming there are any) are shown in the exploded drawing in the manual for the toilet --which should be in a file with all the rest of the equipment manuals on your boat--but if the previous owner wasn't smart enough to keep 'em, you can get one off the Jabsco website (link below). Nevertheless, it would be a VERY good idea to check both your tank vent thru-hull for a blockage and your tank to make sure it really is empty. Since most vent blockages occur at the thru-hull, it shouldn't be necessary to disconnect the vent from the tank to blow water through it...just dig the blockage out of the thru-hull with a screw driver.
C
carisea
toilet problem
The toilet does flush well but if I do not close the intake thru hull immediately then the bowl will slowly fill up. If I close no increase in water level. Since I have two toilets and one holding tank and do not have a problem with the other toilet I would assume the holding tank is not the problem.
The toilet does flush well but if I do not close the intake thru hull immediately then the bowl will slowly fill up. If I close no increase in water level. Since I have two toilets and one holding tank and do not have a problem with the other toilet I would assume the holding tank is not the problem.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
In that case...
You need to contact Jabsco. It's POSSIBLE that a clogged air valve in a vented loop (assuming there is one in the toilet, which is unlikely) could allow a siphon to continue after the toilet intake pump stopped pulling in water, but my money is on a failed solenoid valve. It's not shutting off the intake pump. Better buy a new intake impeller too. Closing the seacock while the pump is running causes the pump to run dry, which damages the impeller.
You need to contact Jabsco. It's POSSIBLE that a clogged air valve in a vented loop (assuming there is one in the toilet, which is unlikely) could allow a siphon to continue after the toilet intake pump stopped pulling in water, but my money is on a failed solenoid valve. It's not shutting off the intake pump. Better buy a new intake impeller too. Closing the seacock while the pump is running causes the pump to run dry, which damages the impeller.
T
Terry
Hi Peggie, I've got the same boat as...
Carisea. Each electric head has a motor at its base, which I believe is used to evacuate the solids from the bowl into the holding tank. But does it not also bring in raw water into the bowl? If I understand your comment, should I be looking for another pump motor that is used to feed raw water to both head pumps? I've followed the raw water line from the through hull sea cock to the filter basket and back to the heads. Did I miss another pump along the way? I assumed the same pump motor was used to draw raw water in as well as evacuate the bowl. Hmmm. Of course the symptoms that I had appear slightly different from Carisea's. If a pump motor is running, like you say, it should make some kind of noise. The head pumps make quite a racket, but that is only while the flush button is held down. Terry
Carisea. Each electric head has a motor at its base, which I believe is used to evacuate the solids from the bowl into the holding tank. But does it not also bring in raw water into the bowl? If I understand your comment, should I be looking for another pump motor that is used to feed raw water to both head pumps? I've followed the raw water line from the through hull sea cock to the filter basket and back to the heads. Did I miss another pump along the way? I assumed the same pump motor was used to draw raw water in as well as evacuate the bowl. Hmmm. Of course the symptoms that I had appear slightly different from Carisea's. If a pump motor is running, like you say, it should make some kind of noise. The head pumps make quite a racket, but that is only while the flush button is held down. Terry
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You have a different problem
If the motor runs, but doesn't bring in any flush water, try replacing the intake impeller. If you've been flushing with the head intake seacock closed, that's what caused it. The same motor that powers the discharge macerator and pump also powers the intake pump...one CANNOT be run without the other without damaging the toilet. There are other possibilities...marine growth that's blocked the thru-hull...a clog in the intake line. But, knowing boat owners, I'm inclined to doubt them. If replacing the impeller--and NEVER flushing with the seaock closed--doesn't fix it, get back to me.
If the motor runs, but doesn't bring in any flush water, try replacing the intake impeller. If you've been flushing with the head intake seacock closed, that's what caused it. The same motor that powers the discharge macerator and pump also powers the intake pump...one CANNOT be run without the other without damaging the toilet. There are other possibilities...marine growth that's blocked the thru-hull...a clog in the intake line. But, knowing boat owners, I'm inclined to doubt them. If replacing the impeller--and NEVER flushing with the seaock closed--doesn't fix it, get back to me.
T
Terry
I'm pretty sure the macerator pump on our P42
is wired directly to a toggle switch on the main DC panel, and comes on only when the switch is manually turned on to empty the contents of the holding tank overboard, whether the through hull is open or not. It is unwise to run these motors without the needed water flow lubrication that prevents impeller damage. So, whenever I empty the holding tank overboard using the macerator pump (which I never do) I always make sure the through hull is first open. I'm also pretty sure the holding tank discharge macerator pump does not come on when the electric head is flushed to empty the bowl contents into the holding tank. My head system seems to be running just fine at this moment in time (knock on wood). But I know if I need help, I trust Peggie will provide sound advice to cure my boat's ailment. Terry P.S. I'm make the above clarification to differentiate between the holding tank macerator discharge pump and the electric head pump, which some might think are one in the same.
is wired directly to a toggle switch on the main DC panel, and comes on only when the switch is manually turned on to empty the contents of the holding tank overboard, whether the through hull is open or not. It is unwise to run these motors without the needed water flow lubrication that prevents impeller damage. So, whenever I empty the holding tank overboard using the macerator pump (which I never do) I always make sure the through hull is first open. I'm also pretty sure the holding tank discharge macerator pump does not come on when the electric head is flushed to empty the bowl contents into the holding tank. My head system seems to be running just fine at this moment in time (knock on wood). But I know if I need help, I trust Peggie will provide sound advice to cure my boat's ailment. Terry P.S. I'm make the above clarification to differentiate between the holding tank macerator discharge pump and the electric head pump, which some might think are one in the same.
P
Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Two different macerators
The tank discharge macerator pump has no more in common with your toilet than your bilge pumps or sump pumps. They're all separate devices that work (or not) independently. If you look at the exploded drawing for the toilet, you'll see that it has one motor that powers both the intake pump and the discharge pump and macerator. The intake pump is at one end, and consists of an impeller in a housing and--in Jabsco toilets--a solenoid valve that operates the impeller. The macerator--which is just a little doodad that has chopper blades--and the discharge impeller are at the other end. When the motor runs, it operates 'em all at once--the intake impeller pulls water in, the discharge impeller pulls bowl contents out of the bowl, through the macerator and pushes it toward it's destination--the tank, treatment device or thru-hull. The little macerator thingy does nothing but puree anything that needs it...it has nothing to with whether flush water comes in or waste goes out. Two pumps, one motor that runs 'em both--and the macerator--simultaneously. So if something is preventing the flow of water OUT of the toilet, it won't prevent the flow of water into the toilet...or, if something is preventing the toilet from flushing it won't prevent it from bringing in flush water. Carisea's problem: toilet flushes, but incoming flush water won't stop. Your problem: flush water comes in, but bowl wouldn't empty. Although the same motor controls both, they're two entirely different problems that have nothing to do with whether the toilet motor runs or not. If the toilet motor doesn't run, you have both problems, but the cause isn't in the intake pump, discharge pump, macerator or the plumbing...it's electrical. Btw...the Jabsco macerator pump that dumps your tank works ALMOST the same way as the toilet...The motors are interchangeable...it just doesn't have an intake pump. The impeller pulls waste out of the tank through the macerator doodad and pushes it out the thru-hull. Impeller sump pumps also work the same way, but don't have macerators in 'em. Btw..."impeller" derives its name from the word "impel: to push, move or drive forward; to propel" the centrifugal motion of the spinning impeller pulls liquid through it and pushes liquid out--but ONLY when the edges of the vanes are a TIGHT fit against the housing. As the edges of the vanes become worn or fried by dry friction heat, they become less and less able to create the centrifugal action needed to impel liquid. Unless an impeller is totally fried, or a vane has broken, it's impossible to see how much an impeller has worn just by looking at it. If it's more than a year or two old, it could be good for another season or two...it might be on the verge of failing. So the best course is replacement of ALL impellers every couple of years.
The tank discharge macerator pump has no more in common with your toilet than your bilge pumps or sump pumps. They're all separate devices that work (or not) independently. If you look at the exploded drawing for the toilet, you'll see that it has one motor that powers both the intake pump and the discharge pump and macerator. The intake pump is at one end, and consists of an impeller in a housing and--in Jabsco toilets--a solenoid valve that operates the impeller. The macerator--which is just a little doodad that has chopper blades--and the discharge impeller are at the other end. When the motor runs, it operates 'em all at once--the intake impeller pulls water in, the discharge impeller pulls bowl contents out of the bowl, through the macerator and pushes it toward it's destination--the tank, treatment device or thru-hull. The little macerator thingy does nothing but puree anything that needs it...it has nothing to with whether flush water comes in or waste goes out. Two pumps, one motor that runs 'em both--and the macerator--simultaneously. So if something is preventing the flow of water OUT of the toilet, it won't prevent the flow of water into the toilet...or, if something is preventing the toilet from flushing it won't prevent it from bringing in flush water. Carisea's problem: toilet flushes, but incoming flush water won't stop. Your problem: flush water comes in, but bowl wouldn't empty. Although the same motor controls both, they're two entirely different problems that have nothing to do with whether the toilet motor runs or not. If the toilet motor doesn't run, you have both problems, but the cause isn't in the intake pump, discharge pump, macerator or the plumbing...it's electrical. Btw...the Jabsco macerator pump that dumps your tank works ALMOST the same way as the toilet...The motors are interchangeable...it just doesn't have an intake pump. The impeller pulls waste out of the tank through the macerator doodad and pushes it out the thru-hull. Impeller sump pumps also work the same way, but don't have macerators in 'em. Btw..."impeller" derives its name from the word "impel: to push, move or drive forward; to propel" the centrifugal motion of the spinning impeller pulls liquid through it and pushes liquid out--but ONLY when the edges of the vanes are a TIGHT fit against the housing. As the edges of the vanes become worn or fried by dry friction heat, they become less and less able to create the centrifugal action needed to impel liquid. Unless an impeller is totally fried, or a vane has broken, it's impossible to see how much an impeller has worn just by looking at it. If it's more than a year or two old, it could be good for another season or two...it might be on the verge of failing. So the best course is replacement of ALL impellers every couple of years.
T
Terry
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