tohatsu outboards and other 4 strokes

[HERSH]

The other week right after we put my friends Colgate 26 in the water ( he was away on business) I attempted to start his outboard so I could take the boat to his mooring.

I almost ripped my fingers off as the motor was locked up HARD. After some troubleshooting we removed the starter cord mechanism. That worked OK. Then I tried turning the crankshaft by hand -- no luck. Then I turned it backwards and that worked. Then forward and it worked.

Re-installed the starter cord mechanism and the motor started -- but very smokey.

Turns out if you store the motor on it's side, crankcase oil will fill the combustion chamber, and as many of you might be aware -- liquid is not compressible. The owners manual says if you store the motor on it's side, to store it on the handle side. The search I did on the internet, a person says, doesn't matter what side, it will eventually leak oil into the combustion chamber.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f2 ... art-93408/

An easy fix would be to remove the spark plug and blow the oil out. This problem might show up on other 4 stroke engines.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f2 ... art-93408/

Moral of the story ---- store your four stroke in the vertical position to be safe

Hershey

 

[sinnettc]

I keep mine on one of those roll around stands. Works great and no oil in the cylinder. Mine started on the 2nd pull this year. Whooo hooo!

 

[shnool]

My motor started on the 200th pull this year... turns out it starts better when the fuel line isn't pinched.

Go figure...

Now it starts on the 3rd pull each time (takes that long to work fuel back into the carb, as I burn out the contents after every use).

 

[jepomer]

For the fourth season in a row, I simply turned on the power switch and rotated the tiller speed control to motor. An electric Torqeedo is so convenient!

But i am not without experience. The Nissan 5 HP 2 cycle outboard that came with my Capri had started easily the first years I used it. It does have a longer range than the batteries and refuels quicker, but I have two hours of full speed or 16 hours of half speed now with flush foredeck mounted solar panels.

The sound of the original post sounded like fuel starvation. A nasty thing affecting small engines that get minimal care (i.e. the lawn equipment at my home and a couple of motorcycles). Engine orientation is extremely important for 4 cycle engines. One of the reasons it took so long to be adopted for small portable engines.

 

[cbreazy]

Which model Torqeedo do you have? Is it powerfull enough?

 

[jepomer]

Which model Torqeedo do you have? Is it powerfull enough?

Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 Tiller model (2011 model year without the latest GPS info).

The motor will push the boat to 6 knots. It handles much like the Nissan 5 HP outboard AND much more convenient for low speed maneuvering. 5 knots is a better "fast" speed and I can go about 2 hours at fast speed. If I slow it down to 3 knots, I can go for about 16 hours.

Four GC2 golf cart batteries (from Sam's Club at $80 each) give the 24 volts at 215 amp-hours. The 265 lbs of batteries are mounted where the cooler would normally be. Lithium batteries would be a fraction of the weight and need only half the capacity to provide the equivalent range when discharging to "healthy" levels.

One Ganz 55 watt panel and two Ganz 30 watt panels are bolted on the foredeck (formally had a rigid 100 watt panel cantilevered on the stern). These can be walked on. I have two charge controllers connected in parallel to all of the solar panels (also in parallel). One charge controller converts (boosts) the nominal 12 vdc from the panels to the nominal 24 vdc for proper charging levels for the motive batteries. The other charge controller keeps the normal 80 amp-hour "house battery" properly charged.

One solar panel array charges two different sets of batteries — one motive, one house. This is good since the boat lives on a mooring and does not get a shore power charge all season. The Torqeedo is very comparable to the Nissan 5 HP engine but with none of the noise. The range has been very acceptable for me over the past three seasons in Boston Harbor. On a bright sunny day while motor sailing, the net battery energy level decrease approaches zero.

Yes, I am very happy with the setup — and relative quiet!

 

[shnool]

Which model Torqeedo do you have? Is it powerfull enough?

Four GC2 golf cart batteries (from Sam's Club at $80 each) give the 24 volts at 215 amp-hours. The 265 lbs of batteries are mounted where the cooler would normally be. Lithium batteries would be a fraction of the weight and need only half the capacity to provide the equivalent range when discharging to "healthy" levels.

One Ganz 55 watt panel and two Ganz 30 watt panels are bolted on the foredeck (formally had a rigid 100 watt panel cantilevered on the stern). These can be walked on. I have two charge controllers connected in parallel to all of the solar panels (also in parallel). One charge controller converts (boosts) the nominal 12 vdc from the panels to the nominal 24 vdc for proper charging levels for the motive batteries. The other charge controller keeps the normal 80 amp-hour "house battery" properly charged.

One solar panel array charges two different sets of batteries — one motive, one house. This is good since the boat lives on a mooring and does not get a shore power charge all season. The Torqeedo is very comparable to the Nissan 5 HP engine but with none of the noise. The range has been very acceptable for me over the past three seasons in Boston Harbor. On a bright sunny day while motor sailing, the net battery energy level decrease approaches zero.

Yes, I am very happy with the setup — and relative quiet!

I am just highlighting relevant details to his setup. A+ for green (alright maybe B for Green, since they are lead acid batteries)... Probably C+ for practical.
That last line is probably VERY true while REACHING with 10mph winds... electric motor becomes electric generator.

 

[HERSH]

Electric motor becomes a generator ..........

Maybe if it was a direct drive from the battery to the motor.

... Not sure if this is true with all the new electronics ( not a simple variable resistor) controlling the motor speed. I suspect the newer controllers are PWC, pulse width modulation.

Hershey

 

[shnool]

Hersh I was being sarcastic... if his electric usage drops to zero while motor sailing.... the prop is no longer dragging, nor providing anything.

I'm thinking the slick surface of the solar panels would make it like ice skating on deck.
The 265 lbs of batteries will certainly help with righting moment.

 

[jepomer]

Two battery usage conditions noticed:

1) With the motor ON but a "slow" setting, the amp draw changed from +10 amps to - 7 amps going downwind [regeneration].

2) On bright sunny days, the solar panels can generate 5+ amps. If motoring at 1-2 knots, the solar panel energy in approaches the same level of energy drawn by the motor. Motoring at 2-3 knots draws about 10 amps. Motoring at full throttle draws 85 amps.

 

[jepomer]

Hersh I was being sarcastic... if his electric usage drops to zero while motor sailing.... the prop is no longer dragging, nor providing anything.

I'm thinking the slick surface of the solar panels would make it like ice skating on deck.
The 265 lbs of batteries will certainly help with righting moment.

The Ganz solar panels are made to withstand foot traffic. They have a plastic film, not glass covering the cells. It is not slippery. Also the panels are mounted in positions that still expose lots of non-skid of the deck.

Unless you are a hardcore racer, this setup is a very good compromise to be energy efficient on the water and give independent recharging while on a mooring. That is my goal.

The battery weight is great for adding to a lower center of balance. But it displaces the cooler so there is no beer on the boat — nor a large need for liquid waste disposal. But the Admiral does enjoy wine...

 

[jepomer]

I am just highlighting relevant details to his setup.
A+ for green (alright maybe B for Green, since they are lead acid batteries)...
Probably C+ for practical.
That last line is probably VERY true while REACHING with 10 mph winds... electric motor becomes electric generator.

All materials we use in our boats have some negative environmental costs. The lead acid batteries will last several years (last set lasted 6 years used in several test setups over six seasons). They are recyclable. Other battery technologies have their own environmental costs. But once the boat is on the water, it needs no other source of energy other than the wind and the sun (which also causes the wind).

I was not expecting to see the regeneration affect. It was a short burst, but real. Mostly I rely on the solar energy recharging the batteries not only on the mooring but also under way.

Is this setup practical?

If your goal is to simply race to win, then probably not. Racing is all about getting around a course faster than everyone else.

But many of us are really cruisers who may like to practice our skills through racing at the club level. Most of us will not bother to strip out all excess weight just before the Wednesday evening "Beer Can" race.

We like to sail and keep the maintenance as simple as possible while the reliability stays high. This setup works for me and my sailing. I do bring the topic up when appropriate for people to see other possibilities. This deck mounted panel setup keeps things simple yet also keeps the Capri 22 as "normal" as possible when sailing. It has a much better balance than cantilevering a rigid solar panel off the stern. I need to go forward only when setting the whisker pole.

For me, it is a very practical setup.

 

[dave_ren]

Is this setup practical?

You answered this in your previous post...

The battery weight is great for adding to a lower center of balance. But it displaces the cooler so there is no beer on the boat...

The answer is, no!!! I'm sticking with my 4 stroke!

 

[SpiderPig]

Last year we invested in a new 6hp Tohatsu 4 stroke "Sail" model and couldn't be happier. It pushes the boat at hull speed, it sips fuel, it has power to boot and doesn't need to "charge up" all of the time. It also has a generator that charges up our batteries under use. The shift levers are in front, easily accessible. Delivered it was around $1400 but well worth the lack of frustration we had with the other older two-strokes.