To lead lines aft or not?

[fred1diver]

Hello everyone, quiet time here and thinking about the boat and possible mods, so far the upcoming season looks busy, but I was thinking, that can be dangerous, my halyards are all at the Mast, would it be worth it to lead them to the cockpit? Or should I leave it alone?
at the moment I have zero turning blocks at the mast base, or anything really to help lead the lines.
I found a deal on some used winches I coule use for the project, but… should I just save my money for now?
the main reason I would like to lead the lines aft is for safety, as in no need to go to the mast.

 

[Benny17441]

If you sail single handed, then there is a good case for leading the lines back to the cockpit, otherwise that may just be a convenience. I mean, when you have chosen to raise the sails conditions should be adequate and it is likely that when you choose to douse them , you will have to go to the mast anyways to pull the sail down, but when sailing solo any help will aid to keep you safe.

 

[Tally Ho]

I have all the lines on my O’Day 322 led aft except my topping lift…will change that at some point too. So much safer and easier to work from the safety of the cockpit, especially if you are in rough seas.

You will a couple of rope clutches, the mast blocks, 2 deck organizers, and the winches.

On my boat, I have main sheet, main halyard, reef 1, reef 2, spin halyard, vang, outhaul, and jib furling line all run back to the cockpit, using 2 quad clutches and 4-line deck organizers.

The ONLY” downside I can see is a clutter of lines in the cockpit (mine are coiled on line holders on the bulkhead when not in use).





Greg

 

[dLj]

Personally I like controlling my fore sails completely from the cockpit, but I prefer to go to the mast for raising and lowering the main sail. I primarily singlehand (at least historically) but do run an autopilot to facilitate moving away from the helm.

I like being at the mast for main sail handling. In the past on boats with everything run back into the cockpit, there were still times I felt I needed to work at the mast and not having the option seemed to be a pain. But a lot of this decision is based on where and how you sail, and what kind of rig you have.

dj

 

[jssailem]

Fred. There are definitely two schools of thought. Both have pro vs con reasons.

On my boat, I’ve chosen the halyard at the mast strategy. It gets me out of the cockpit, enabling me to inspect the boat before the event that causes me to want to change the sail plan. Is the anchor system secure, are all lines secure will they unravel and become a hazard, etc. Many a boater has remarked, it is a safety issue All Lines should run to the cockpit. I ask “What will you do if something happens (ie. a block explodes, a sail rips, a sail lug fails…. ) to save the boat will you get out of the cockpit?”

Just like sail trim and docking you need the skill and equipment to safely move about the boat if conditions foul. You need jack lines, harnesses, sure footings, know how to crawl to the bow when it is pitching 10plus feet in the air.

There are many reasons and solutions available consider your sailing waters and what Mother Nature may let you experience then choose a wise path for you and the safety of your crew.

 

[RoyS]

Nice to have but a costly installation. You will likely want to take the mast down and install an organizer plate to hold the base turning blocks. You will likely need to replace your existing halyards and other mainsail control lines. Line bags are desirable. You know already that you need winches, deck organizers and clutches. The costs will add up fast. I would do it to my boat but I need a windfall first.

 

[jssailem]

I need a windfall first.

Like winning the Lottery?

 

[Ward H]

As others have said, it depends on your sailing conditions and I’ll add it depends on the size of your boat. The bigger the boat, the bigger the decks and the more stable the boat.
My 30’r is much more stable and has wider side decks than my Oday 25. I ran the main halyard and a down haul for the main back to the cockpit on the Oday because just walking on the side deck could unbalance the boat and cause it to turn.
On @jssailem s and @dLj s boats the decks are probably much more stable than our 30’ boats making mast and fore deck work safer and easier than on our boats.

If my boat didn’t come with lines led aft it wouldn’t be a high priority but I probably would for the convenience.

Is it safer? Avoiding a swinging boom, slippery decks, trip hazards, etc will always be safer IMHO.
Equipment inspections can and should be done before leaving the dock, mooring or anchor.
Of course that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t always be prepared to go forward. Crap happens requiring attention on the fore decks and you need to be comfortable going forward.

As others have said, it can be costly.

 

[Hollyberry]

As far as mainsail halyard/reefing etc is concerned, and mostly solo sailing, I think it's 'all or nothing'. Doublehanded you would have someone in the cockpit handling the halyard, eg, while another is at the mast/gooseneck dealing with the reef hook etc. Solo with that arrangement you're having to go 'back and forth'.

We mostly double hand, but for occasional solo sailing we have a cam cleat on the side of the mast to hold the halyard temporarily (much quicker to 'jump' the halyard at the mast than trying to grind it up from the cockpit) Once the main is mostly up, halyard is jammed in the cleat, slack taken up from cockpit and the last foot or two winched the rest of the way.

For solo sailing on a smallish boat I think I'd arrange to have the halyard on the mast, reef lines led to the forward portion of the boom so that it can all be done from a single position. Saves a bunch on hardware too!

 

[kappykaplan]

much quicker to 'jump' the halyard at the mast than trying to grind it up from the cockpit

 

[thinwater]

... Is it safer? Avoiding a swinging boom, slippery decks, trip hazards, etc will always be safer IMHO.
Equipment inspections can and should be done before leaving the dock, mooring or anchor.
Of course that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t always be prepared to go forward. Crap happens requiring attention on the fore decks and you need to be comfortable going forward..../QUOTE]

I've had both. Hoisting at the mast is physically much easier, because you have you weight on the rope and less friction.

The safety issue intrigued me, so I started reviewing MOB stories (I am up to about 100 this morning). People fall off the foredeck working with jibs (hank-on or foil), recovering chutes that shrimped, and out of the cockpit, but so far not one case of walking to the mast or working at the mast. It feels scary, perhaps, but the skinny bow is dangerous (also working with both hands and not much to hold on to) and the cockpit can be (boom or just slide out when heeling), but when traveling people are holding on and paying attention. The mast is on a wide area of deck and you can easily attach to a jack line and even attach the second leg to the mast. There is lots to hold on to.

Just sayin' the stats don't make working at the mast dangerous. Counter intuitive, perhaps.

 

[Terry Cox]

Since I solo sail, all sail trim lines lead to the cockpit; main/genoa/asym halyards, two main reefs, topping lift, main/Genoa/asym sheets, outhaul, boom vang. The only line that I leave the cockpit for is the double line genoa furler. Hunter, for the most part, built the boat that way. I did make one modification and that was to move the working end of the topping lift from the mast to the boom end in order to free up one sheet organizer for the asym halyard. Been that way almost since we purchased the boat in 2002. Makes solo sailing so much more convenient.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

This is truly one of those questions that doesn't yield universal answers! I used to think all lines led back to cockpit is best and on my Starwind 27 my theory was that smaller boats have far less stable & roomy cabin roofs to stand on. I'm way more comfortable at the mast on our Catalina 320. For that reason, and because the line clutter is a factor, I may convert the genoa halyard and the spin halyard to ending at the mast. Those are 2 halyards that are rarely touched. Particularly the genoa halyard that, because of the furler, the great majority of the line is parked in the cockpit. It sits there all season, just hanging out and in the way, but never touched. I'd much prefer those two halyards being that much shorter and stationed at the mast where they are parked out of the way. Vang, traveler, and outhaul??? They aren't going to be trimmed very often if they aren't led to the cockpit. Reefing lines are best led to the cockpit, as well, but it doesn't bother me if I have to go to the mast to hook the tack when necessary.

If you haven't spent much time on your boat yet, it's probably best to leave it as it is set up for a while and give it some time to determine your preference. That said, I can't count the number of times I've changed something only to question why I didn't do it a long time ago!

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

Lots of information above. Of course only you can decide what is right for you.

Some additional information for you:
It is always easier (meaning less effort) and faster to raise (and lower) sails from the mast. Every time the line has to run through a block, friction is added and it gets harder. If you add a turning block at the base of the mast and then run the line through a deck organizer, you have added a significant amount of friction. Can you still raise the main by hand from the cockpit of your 30' boat? Maybe. I know that on my 36' C&C I could jump the main all the way up if I did it at the mast. If I raised the main from the cockpit I could get it 1/2 way by hand and then I needed to grind grind grind to get it the rest of the way up and properly tensioned.

I definitely LIKE having all lines run to the mast and every boat I have owned since 2004 has been set up that way. If I am single handing, or have inexperienced crew, I do all work from the cockpit. If I have good crew, then I will raise the main from the mast, etc. When racing I have great crew, and speed matters, so all maneuvers are done as quickly as possible, which means halyards are done from the mast.

Regarding reefing, I DEFINITELY want all lines led to the cockpit. My current boat has single line reefing with blocks for the reefing line at the clew and luff of the sail. Reefing is very easy and fast: Ease halyard. Put reefing line on winch. When reefing line is TIGHT, close reefing clutch, put halyard on winch and tension main. Reef done. Takes under a minute and it's all done from the safety of the cockpit. My previous boat also had single line reefing, but no blocks in the sail and there was too much friction to run the reefing line through the luff and clew. So someone had to go to the mast and as the halyard was eased they would pull the luff of the sail down and put the reefing cringle on the horn. So someone was at the mast, with the boat heeled over, pulling the sail down and working to get the cringle on. Not super dangerous, but not as easy as doing it from the cockpit.

Just my $.02

Barry

 

[stickinthemud57]

Leading lines aft pro's and con's:

Pro's:
-You will be less likely to fall off the boat while managing halyards
-Reduces rope clutter at mast
-Allows for easy adjustment of halyard tension
-Better facilitates single-handing

Con's:
-Requires more physical effort due to passage through more blocks and rope clutches. Also, pulling rope toward you is less ergonomic than pulling rope down.
-Increases deck clutter (ropes, organizers, clutches)
-Moves rope clutter from mast to cockpit
-Expense and installation of blocks, deck organizers, clutches, and new halyards

My setup is simple - just main and jib halyards - So I was able to position the clutches such that I could use the jib sheet winch for tensioning the halyards. At first I had rigged downhauls, but that created too much rope tangling in the cockpit and I had to leave the cockpit to secure the sails when I dropped them anyway, so I did away with those.

I highly recommend the Lewmar DC2 and similar domino rope clutches. They are easier on the ropes and even when locked down they allow the rope to be pulled through, providing a one-way passage for the rope. I will pull the halyard mostly tight, close the clutch, then crank on the winch to tension the halyard. Works like a charm.

 

[Terry Cox]

I dislike clutter in the cockpit and since all the control lines lead there, I made organizers, port and starboard mounted on the dodger frame to hang those sheets when not in use. Minimal cost and easy to make. Wrote an article back when I made them and you can read it here: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

Normally, the only sheets in the cockpit while underway are for the genoa and main halyard. Once the main is raised, I toss the halyard up on the cockpit coaming out of the way. The genoa sheets are the only ones left in the cockpit, which are used for tack changes and trimming.

 

[Dalliance]

I have all lines led back to the cockpit. Most of the pros and cons described above are valid. I single hand most of the time and it reduces how often I have to leave the cockpit. For me, it’s about safety and convenience. Definitely worth the investment in my opinion.

 

[stickinthemud57]

I dislike clutter in the cockpit and since all the control lines lead there, I made organizers, port and starboard mounted on the dodger frame to hang those sheets when not in use. Minimal cost and easy to make. Wrote an article back when I made them and you can read it here: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

Normally, the only sheets in the cockpit while underway are for the genoa and main halyard.

A sensible and low cost solution, kudos!

I have just been dumping mine in the cabin which is not a problem since there is usually no one below when we are underway. I have seen some nice rope pouches for that purpose as well.

 

[RoyS]

You could do this expensive modification in stages over the next few years. If for some reason you unstep your mast, install a base plate at that time for attachment of your future turning blocks. Keep adding components when time and your budget allow. Most sailors are patient people unlike those wretched power boaters.

 

[All U Get]

Install an electric winch in the cockpit and you’re golden.