My father, brother and I spent Friday at the Annapolis boat show. It is bigger than ever. I sure am glad most venders return to the same booths or I would never find anything. Visited the Latitudes and Attitudes booth to see Bob Bitchin and Jody. This is a must. They publish the best cruising magazine going, and Bob has a book out that will make a great Christmas gift. Saw the mast climbing rope rig demonstrated. It is amazing but you have to be pretty athletic to do it. This is the foot and body strap rig that takes you up the made on a rope but you pull yourself up using your own legs. It works, but my mast is 60 feet high! The best boat at the show, no question, is the Hunter Signature 470. It is a beauty. But it carries an unbelievably high price of about $435,000 loaded!! The regular 460 is right beside it so you can make comparisons. The 470 has a new version of the 3rd cabin for this boat. It has a single bunk on the inside and then a fold down bunk on the outside with a washer dryer behind the door. This is the way to go and I understand that you can order the boat this way from Hunter. The 470 has the generator between the aft cabins in the traditional spot, which to me is unacceptable. the 460 was ordered by Norton Yatchs without a generator but wired for one in the starbord stern locker. There is a stainless plate back there for mounting. Norton's is going to install a 6KW fisher panda with sound shield in that locker. This is the way to do it. It puts it out of the cabin and the panda is so quiet you can forget to turn it off. The 470 had a wonderful windshield bimini combo that showed that this boat can be enclosed. I had wondered about that because of the long main hatch. But the 470 had a great design for its canvas and I would recommend it to any 460 owner. The 470 also had in boom furling and had a drifter sail on a furler in front of the jib. I have read about these but had never seen one. Looks like a great idea. Also had a staysail. The 460 had a staysail, too. The deck of the 470 was baige and the hull hunter green. Beautiful! The big boat in may area now is Baveria(sp). We went on the 47 center cockpit version. NO GOOD. This boat does not come close to the Hunter 460. It had a plastic floor! and it was ugly below deck. Until next year . . .
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Sorry about the numerous typos.
made should be mast yatch should be yacht baige should be beige may should be my starbord should be starboard and there are others
made should be mast yatch should be yacht baige should be beige may should be my starbord should be starboard and there are others
Excellent Report
Brad, Even with all the typos it is very easy to figure out what you meant. It was an excellent informative report. I didn't make it to Annapolis but sure would like to trade up to a 460. The drifter on a furler in front of the headsail sounded like a neat idea.
Brad, Even with all the typos it is very easy to figure out what you meant. It was an excellent informative report. I didn't make it to Annapolis but sure would like to trade up to a 460. The drifter on a furler in front of the headsail sounded like a neat idea.
Jib, staysail, and drifter
Hi Brad thanks for the report on the 470. I have one question regarding the sailplan. It sounded like the boat had 2 furlers plus a stay for the staysail?? Can you explain this a bit more for me? Also, did you notice what brand the boom furler was? Thanks again, ROwen H460 Mikayla
Hi Brad thanks for the report on the 470. I have one question regarding the sailplan. It sounded like the boat had 2 furlers plus a stay for the staysail?? Can you explain this a bit more for me? Also, did you notice what brand the boom furler was? Thanks again, ROwen H460 Mikayla
More Details
Sorry, I did not notice the name of the boom furler. But Hunter could tell you. And I did not pay attention to whether it was electic or manual. We have mast furling main on our P42 and are very happy with that, so I guess I just was not interested in the concept. The mast on the 470, by the way, had struts on it, like the HC50. The 460 did not have struts. I don't know what they are supposed to do, but they did make great handholds. The bimini/windshield also had excellent hand rails on it. The drifter was attached to the farthest point forward on the anchor roller with a snap shackle under the furler drum. So the drifter was in front of the bow pulpit. Then the jib was next, inside the bow pulpit. The staysail, which was in a bag, was hanked on to a forestay that was attached to a deck ring with a tension lever rig. It can be easily unhooked and moved to a ring at the base of the mast for storage. The 460 had this too, but it also had a radar dome on the mast and I think the staysail forestay would do great damage to that. The 470 had its radar dome on a post aft that also had a outboard motor lift crane attached. The 470 only had one door to the forward cabin and on the space where the other door would have been was a 15" flat screen TV hanging on the wall. The little TV/VCR combo that would have been on the side by the chairs was on top of cabinets/closet in the forward cabin, where the door would have been, facing forward. This was a good setup. Hunter needs to make the one door wall standard on all boats that have the single foreward cabin. The shower compartment had a glass outer door. I'm not sure I liked that. The heads were Vacuflush. The VHF radio was in the speaker pod above the wheel, instead of in the main hatch. The mic had a channel changer and volume on it so it was all you needed to use it.
Sorry, I did not notice the name of the boom furler. But Hunter could tell you. And I did not pay attention to whether it was electic or manual. We have mast furling main on our P42 and are very happy with that, so I guess I just was not interested in the concept. The mast on the 470, by the way, had struts on it, like the HC50. The 460 did not have struts. I don't know what they are supposed to do, but they did make great handholds. The bimini/windshield also had excellent hand rails on it. The drifter was attached to the farthest point forward on the anchor roller with a snap shackle under the furler drum. So the drifter was in front of the bow pulpit. Then the jib was next, inside the bow pulpit. The staysail, which was in a bag, was hanked on to a forestay that was attached to a deck ring with a tension lever rig. It can be easily unhooked and moved to a ring at the base of the mast for storage. The 460 had this too, but it also had a radar dome on the mast and I think the staysail forestay would do great damage to that. The 470 had its radar dome on a post aft that also had a outboard motor lift crane attached. The 470 only had one door to the forward cabin and on the space where the other door would have been was a 15" flat screen TV hanging on the wall. The little TV/VCR combo that would have been on the side by the chairs was on top of cabinets/closet in the forward cabin, where the door would have been, facing forward. This was a good setup. Hunter needs to make the one door wall standard on all boats that have the single foreward cabin. The shower compartment had a glass outer door. I'm not sure I liked that. The heads were Vacuflush. The VHF radio was in the speaker pod above the wheel, instead of in the main hatch. The mic had a channel changer and volume on it so it was all you needed to use it.
470 -- boom furling system...
unfortunately, i wasn't in annapolis, but saw the 470 in st pete...it has the jb hi/lo boom furler system...my impression is that that system is old technology compared to leisure furl, profurl, etc...does anyone have any thoughts on pros and cons of the boom furler systems?...they were recently discussed in cw...
unfortunately, i wasn't in annapolis, but saw the 470 in st pete...it has the jb hi/lo boom furler system...my impression is that that system is old technology compared to leisure furl, profurl, etc...does anyone have any thoughts on pros and cons of the boom furler systems?...they were recently discussed in cw...
boom furling
I don't see the point in a boom furling system vs traditional boom with lazy jacks. In both instances you must raise the main. In both systems, you must lower the main. I suppose, in boom furling is a little easier to store and to reef. I like the in mast furling. It works great. I saw an add recently. I think it was from Doyle sailmakers. I think that they were demonstrating in mast furling with battens. That would be interesting once all of the bugs and risks of failure or jamming are removed.
I don't see the point in a boom furling system vs traditional boom with lazy jacks. In both instances you must raise the main. In both systems, you must lower the main. I suppose, in boom furling is a little easier to store and to reef. I like the in mast furling. It works great. I saw an add recently. I think it was from Doyle sailmakers. I think that they were demonstrating in mast furling with battens. That would be interesting once all of the bugs and risks of failure or jamming are removed.
I wouldn't have in mast furling
There are opposing views on everything. If I had a boat with in mast furling, I would ditch it and the sail it came with. The system works only on battenless mains with hollow leeches. There's too much advantage to roach and battens. Indeed, the ability to carry a heavily roached main is THE advantage of a B&R rig. If you get rid of this, you then have all the disadvantages, with no compensating advantage. I always thought the purpose of furlers was to eliminate flaking and bagging, after a sail. Why is raising the main any more problem than letting it out? Keep the track lubed, and it's a breeze.
There are opposing views on everything. If I had a boat with in mast furling, I would ditch it and the sail it came with. The system works only on battenless mains with hollow leeches. There's too much advantage to roach and battens. Indeed, the ability to carry a heavily roached main is THE advantage of a B&R rig. If you get rid of this, you then have all the disadvantages, with no compensating advantage. I always thought the purpose of furlers was to eliminate flaking and bagging, after a sail. Why is raising the main any more problem than letting it out? Keep the track lubed, and it's a breeze.
Warren: Boom Furling
Warren: an attempt to answer your question re: boom furling. I am not a fan of mast furling systems -in fact refused it on my 460. Two main reasons: 1.The mast furled sail loses 20% of it's area which I think will be a big sacrifice in light winds. 2. No battens means that sail shape will inevitably be sacrificed. I agree with a previous post about the B&R rig - if I had in-mast furling, then I would want a backstay so that I could get better control of the forestay tension. The advantage of the rig (large roach) is gone, and the disadvantages of it remain. So, why boom furling and not just stay with the standard rig? My main reasons for considering it are the ability of infinite reefing points and the ease of lowering and storing the sail. The easy jacks work to a point, and our sail drops quite well from the cockpit, but the system isn't all that great. Sometimes, if the boat isn't exactly into the wind correctly, or the tension on the jacks isn't just right, the sail will fall off the boom and all over the dodger. then it's a pain to get it back on. I realize that this is an expensive change, but we may still do it. We often sail with just 2 of us, so ease of use is of major importance. My other problem is that I used to race boats, so I am now stuck with this desire to get the best out of any boat I own. I miss the backstay. I understand that for most cruising, this entire discussion is down to splitting hairs because for 90% of the use, the in-mast main and the B&R rig work just fine. Anyway, that's my take on it. ROwen
Warren: an attempt to answer your question re: boom furling. I am not a fan of mast furling systems -in fact refused it on my 460. Two main reasons: 1.The mast furled sail loses 20% of it's area which I think will be a big sacrifice in light winds. 2. No battens means that sail shape will inevitably be sacrificed. I agree with a previous post about the B&R rig - if I had in-mast furling, then I would want a backstay so that I could get better control of the forestay tension. The advantage of the rig (large roach) is gone, and the disadvantages of it remain. So, why boom furling and not just stay with the standard rig? My main reasons for considering it are the ability of infinite reefing points and the ease of lowering and storing the sail. The easy jacks work to a point, and our sail drops quite well from the cockpit, but the system isn't all that great. Sometimes, if the boat isn't exactly into the wind correctly, or the tension on the jacks isn't just right, the sail will fall off the boom and all over the dodger. then it's a pain to get it back on. I realize that this is an expensive change, but we may still do it. We often sail with just 2 of us, so ease of use is of major importance. My other problem is that I used to race boats, so I am now stuck with this desire to get the best out of any boat I own. I miss the backstay. I understand that for most cruising, this entire discussion is down to splitting hairs because for 90% of the use, the in-mast main and the B&R rig work just fine. Anyway, that's my take on it. ROwen
Check Photo Forum.
Jim Seamon's was kind enough to put some show photos there, including the H470. Thanks Jim. I was there Friday and can attest to the crowds! And I was all over the H470, and the H50C. Only hope is reincarnation.
Jim Seamon's was kind enough to put some show photos there, including the H470. Thanks Jim. I was there Friday and can attest to the crowds! And I was all over the H470, and the H50C. Only hope is reincarnation.
hey warren,
I haven't heard about the Doyle sails you mentioned, but Hood has come out with a really slick verticle batten main for in-mast furling. A bit pricey, but I'm definately leaning that way for my next sail. Check their site at www.vertech.com/english/default.htm This sail uses carbon fiber vertical battens, and is widely used in Europe.
I haven't heard about the Doyle sails you mentioned, but Hood has come out with a really slick verticle batten main for in-mast furling. A bit pricey, but I'm definately leaning that way for my next sail. Check their site at www.vertech.com/english/default.htm This sail uses carbon fiber vertical battens, and is widely used in Europe.
Leisure furl
Guys, My wife and I were lucky enough to make this year's Annapolis show. It was great but very crowded. Paying a few bucks extra for VIP day on Thursday is the way to go, as crowds are perhaps 1/3 of Friday (forget about how crowded the week-end is). Most of the high-end boats who had in-boom furling utilized Leisure Furl. For my biased eye, the Hunter line of boats looked very good compared with Catalina, Beneteau, Jeanneau, and Dufour. I wonder if Hunter has considered making a raised deck salon version of any larger Hunters? This seems to be a popular idea with numerous manufacturers. The Trintella 47 was fascinating to me and seems like a great idea with its two cockpit design, the forward one of which would make great sea berths.
Guys, My wife and I were lucky enough to make this year's Annapolis show. It was great but very crowded. Paying a few bucks extra for VIP day on Thursday is the way to go, as crowds are perhaps 1/3 of Friday (forget about how crowded the week-end is). Most of the high-end boats who had in-boom furling utilized Leisure Furl. For my biased eye, the Hunter line of boats looked very good compared with Catalina, Beneteau, Jeanneau, and Dufour. I wonder if Hunter has considered making a raised deck salon version of any larger Hunters? This seems to be a popular idea with numerous manufacturers. The Trintella 47 was fascinating to me and seems like a great idea with its two cockpit design, the forward one of which would make great sea berths.
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