Greetings to everyone! I have just acquired a 30 Allied sailboat (1972) that has a tiller and am seriously considering doing a conversion to a steering wheel. I would like any input on the advantages or disadvantages of doing a conversion on a boat of this size. Any information or experience anyone has on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Jackie
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I wouldn't do it.
Granted, your cockpit may be a little roomier than ours on our 27' Starwind. I find the wheel to be somewhat obtrusive and makes it harder for me to to do anything else besides steer when I'm at the helm. I liked the idea of a wheel when we shopped for boats last summer because it appears to have more "pizzaz". My wife noted that it is awkward and takes up more room. I have to admit that she is right most of the time, and in this instance, too! This is our first sailboat of this size, so it is a learning experience. I'm used to a tiller on small sailboats and would now agree with those that think that a tiller is better suited than a wheel for boats under 30'. You're right on that cusp so I'd bet that it would be best to leave it as designed. Lessons learned are valuable! My wife also thought roller furling for the head sail was important. Since the boat we (read "I") liked most did not have it, I nayed at its importance and thought I was right because the 110% jib that came with the boat was easily stuffed into a bag and left to hang at the base of the stay when moored. Well, we got a new 150% genoa and I gave up trying to roll it up on deck to store in its bag. I end up stuffing it, it takes up twice the size and is a royal pain to lug it around. After using it twice, now I think it is an urgent matter to convert the sail for roller furling! My wife may be new to sailing, but she has a pretty good eye!
Granted, your cockpit may be a little roomier than ours on our 27' Starwind. I find the wheel to be somewhat obtrusive and makes it harder for me to to do anything else besides steer when I'm at the helm. I liked the idea of a wheel when we shopped for boats last summer because it appears to have more "pizzaz". My wife noted that it is awkward and takes up more room. I have to admit that she is right most of the time, and in this instance, too! This is our first sailboat of this size, so it is a learning experience. I'm used to a tiller on small sailboats and would now agree with those that think that a tiller is better suited than a wheel for boats under 30'. You're right on that cusp so I'd bet that it would be best to leave it as designed. Lessons learned are valuable! My wife also thought roller furling for the head sail was important. Since the boat we (read "I") liked most did not have it, I nayed at its importance and thought I was right because the 110% jib that came with the boat was easily stuffed into a bag and left to hang at the base of the stay when moored. Well, we got a new 150% genoa and I gave up trying to roll it up on deck to store in its bag. I end up stuffing it, it takes up twice the size and is a royal pain to lug it around. After using it twice, now I think it is an urgent matter to convert the sail for roller furling! My wife may be new to sailing, but she has a pretty good eye!
wheel or tiller?
One of the primary reasons for a wheel is to gain leverage... if the tiller on the boat is more effort than wanted... a wheel can relieve that effort. A wheel also can give the crew much needed standing exercise during cruising. I don't much buy into the ease of using a wheel over tiller... either can be grasped quickly. If neither of the two items above are a factor... I'd suggest staying with the tiller.
One of the primary reasons for a wheel is to gain leverage... if the tiller on the boat is more effort than wanted... a wheel can relieve that effort. A wheel also can give the crew much needed standing exercise during cruising. I don't much buy into the ease of using a wheel over tiller... either can be grasped quickly. If neither of the two items above are a factor... I'd suggest staying with the tiller.
Balanced rudder vs. barn door
If my memory is correct, the Allied 30 has a modified full keel; hence, no balanced spade rudder. With an unbalanced barn door rudder a wheel will be of much benefit in mechanical advantage to hold them helm when the rudder is off of dead center. Tillers are more suited to fin keels or those boats with *balanced* rudders that usually require little hand pressure from a tiller to steer them. Tillers are much more senstive the reactions of hand pressure needed to steer ... but mounted to a barn door (pintle hung) rudder, your arms soon get tired fighting the tiller. If you want the mechanical advantage and dont care if you lose important helm 'sensitivity and feed back' then a wheel makes sense, especially on a boat over 40 ft. Otherwise a wheel is just another 'gizmo' thats prone to failure. Tillers will 'dominate' the cockpit and make it difficult for partying on a marina queen. Tillers are for balanced rudders, Wheels are needed for heavy loads of helm pressure.
If my memory is correct, the Allied 30 has a modified full keel; hence, no balanced spade rudder. With an unbalanced barn door rudder a wheel will be of much benefit in mechanical advantage to hold them helm when the rudder is off of dead center. Tillers are more suited to fin keels or those boats with *balanced* rudders that usually require little hand pressure from a tiller to steer them. Tillers are much more senstive the reactions of hand pressure needed to steer ... but mounted to a barn door (pintle hung) rudder, your arms soon get tired fighting the tiller. If you want the mechanical advantage and dont care if you lose important helm 'sensitivity and feed back' then a wheel makes sense, especially on a boat over 40 ft. Otherwise a wheel is just another 'gizmo' thats prone to failure. Tillers will 'dominate' the cockpit and make it difficult for partying on a marina queen. Tillers are for balanced rudders, Wheels are needed for heavy loads of helm pressure.
Tiller vs Wheels
My experience as a part time broker is that one day you'll want to sell your newly acquired Allied 30. I think you will find it easier sell with a wheel rather than tiller, although this is an expensive and time consuming upgrade. Buyers of boats 28 ft and up tend to want a wheel (for many of the reasons mentioned by the other posters). I've found that buyers tend to think that tillers go with outboard powered boats and that wheels go with inboards (unless you are an all-out racer).
My experience as a part time broker is that one day you'll want to sell your newly acquired Allied 30. I think you will find it easier sell with a wheel rather than tiller, although this is an expensive and time consuming upgrade. Buyers of boats 28 ft and up tend to want a wheel (for many of the reasons mentioned by the other posters). I've found that buyers tend to think that tillers go with outboard powered boats and that wheels go with inboards (unless you are an all-out racer).
Jackie, Do plan to race or cruise?
If you plan to race then I would stay with a tiller. If you plan to cruise then I'd go for the wheel. I converted my Hunter 25 over to wheel and I glad I did. The wheel allows more room in the cockpit for 'guests'. I added a captains chair behind the wheel and sit there. I can let go of the wheel to change out beers and the boat will keep on tracking. The wheel pedistal also became a platform for more goodies, (digital instruments, cup holders, cockpit table). The wheel does take up room in the center of the cockpit but for crusing I will not go back to a tiller. I leave the tiller for my race boat. Ted
If you plan to race then I would stay with a tiller. If you plan to cruise then I'd go for the wheel. I converted my Hunter 25 over to wheel and I glad I did. The wheel allows more room in the cockpit for 'guests'. I added a captains chair behind the wheel and sit there. I can let go of the wheel to change out beers and the boat will keep on tracking. The wheel pedistal also became a platform for more goodies, (digital instruments, cup holders, cockpit table). The wheel does take up room in the center of the cockpit but for crusing I will not go back to a tiller. I leave the tiller for my race boat. Ted
NOT A RACER BUT THIS IS A RACER/CRUISER MODEL
Thank you for all of these great replies! This particular model of Allied is the Chance which has a fin keel. I believe this was the only boat made by Allied that was a used for racing. Nevertheless, my needs are more for cruising and it seems that investing in the conversion may be the way to go. Jackie
Thank you for all of these great replies! This particular model of Allied is the Chance which has a fin keel. I believe this was the only boat made by Allied that was a used for racing. Nevertheless, my needs are more for cruising and it seems that investing in the conversion may be the way to go. Jackie
Stay with the tiller
I have an O'Day 30 that has a tiller. I admit that there are a few times that i wished i had a wheel, but they are very rare. not having a barn door and a properly balanced/designed rudder there should be little helm pressure. its a lot better for the feel of the helm,hence easier to steer and not over steer as with a wheel. as to cruising we also criuse our O'Day and like the space it gives in the cockpit when folded up out of the way, obviously you can't fold a wheel and pedistal out of the way. the best you can do is take the wheel off and stow it on one of those gismos on a stansion.
I have an O'Day 30 that has a tiller. I admit that there are a few times that i wished i had a wheel, but they are very rare. not having a barn door and a properly balanced/designed rudder there should be little helm pressure. its a lot better for the feel of the helm,hence easier to steer and not over steer as with a wheel. as to cruising we also criuse our O'Day and like the space it gives in the cockpit when folded up out of the way, obviously you can't fold a wheel and pedistal out of the way. the best you can do is take the wheel off and stow it on one of those gismos on a stansion.
Folding wheels
I saw new Hunters at the boat show with wheels that folded. The wheel was divided into quarters and when you folded in the 2 sides, it gave more room for passing from the hlm to the rest of the cockpit. The wheels were an Edson product. Sounds like good idea to me ...
I saw new Hunters at the boat show with wheels that folded. The wheel was divided into quarters and when you folded in the 2 sides, it gave more room for passing from the hlm to the rest of the cockpit. The wheels were an Edson product. Sounds like good idea to me ...
What about failures?
RichH stated it is just another gizmo prone to failure. Well put Rich, but that gizmo could be the one to make or break you, literally. A steering failure usually happens when you need it the most; rough weather, tight channel or offshore. If you do convert, make sure you have an emergency tiller setup and practice using it. I grew up using all types of boats and all of them had tiller steering except for the family ski boat. Some people have trouble steering a tiller because it is not as intuitive as a wheel. I am the opposite. Whenever I steer a wheeled boat from the side I tend to put my hand at either 10:00 or 2:00. From the starboard side, I pull to turn left and push to turn right...oops, that is for a tiller. Tim R.
RichH stated it is just another gizmo prone to failure. Well put Rich, but that gizmo could be the one to make or break you, literally. A steering failure usually happens when you need it the most; rough weather, tight channel or offshore. If you do convert, make sure you have an emergency tiller setup and practice using it. I grew up using all types of boats and all of them had tiller steering except for the family ski boat. Some people have trouble steering a tiller because it is not as intuitive as a wheel. I am the opposite. Whenever I steer a wheeled boat from the side I tend to put my hand at either 10:00 or 2:00. From the starboard side, I pull to turn left and push to turn right...oops, that is for a tiller. Tim R.
GOOD POINTS IN FAVOR OF TILLER
There a good points made in favor of staying with the tiller and really got me thinking. Comfort is important but safety is more important and since we plan on doing some serious sailing in this boat it sounds like I may really have to weigh this out before making a decision. Jackie
There a good points made in favor of staying with the tiller and really got me thinking. Comfort is important but safety is more important and since we plan on doing some serious sailing in this boat it sounds like I may really have to weigh this out before making a decision. Jackie
What did you use for your conversion
How did you make the change to the wheel? Please give the spcifics of the products you used for the change. Thank you. Tom Wieken
How did you make the change to the wheel? Please give the spcifics of the products you used for the change. Thank you. Tom Wieken
Other advantages of a tiller
To convert to wheel you'll need to get under the cockpit floor to install a rudder quadrant, run the control cables, and thru-bolt the wheel binnacle to the cockpit floor. I'm sure your Allied 30 has an inboard right where all that access is needed. Plus you'll need to find a place to store an emergency tiller "just in case". Your current tiller is much simpler, cheaper and easy to tilt up and out of the way when you're at anchor for more room in the cockpit. If you're sailing shorthanded, you're sitting or standing behind the wheel, you likely won't be easily able to get to the jibsheeets if they need adjusting or you want to tack. Means you'll always need crew. Unless you need the mechanical advantage, I see more disadvantages than advantages to a wheel.
To convert to wheel you'll need to get under the cockpit floor to install a rudder quadrant, run the control cables, and thru-bolt the wheel binnacle to the cockpit floor. I'm sure your Allied 30 has an inboard right where all that access is needed. Plus you'll need to find a place to store an emergency tiller "just in case". Your current tiller is much simpler, cheaper and easy to tilt up and out of the way when you're at anchor for more room in the cockpit. If you're sailing shorthanded, you're sitting or standing behind the wheel, you likely won't be easily able to get to the jibsheeets if they need adjusting or you want to tack. Means you'll always need crew. Unless you need the mechanical advantage, I see more disadvantages than advantages to a wheel.
MORE GOOD POINTS
Peter - those are some very good points in favor of the tiller (I would say I am about 90% convinced that a wheel conversion would not be a good idea for this boat. Add to the fact the cost (approx $2,000 just for the kit) and I would say my mind is made up. As far as the conversion, I have not done it yet but have gotten a quote from Edson (www.edsonmarine.com). You can check out the conversions there.
Peter - those are some very good points in favor of the tiller (I would say I am about 90% convinced that a wheel conversion would not be a good idea for this boat. Add to the fact the cost (approx $2,000 just for the kit) and I would say my mind is made up. As far as the conversion, I have not done it yet but have gotten a quote from Edson (www.edsonmarine.com). You can check out the conversions there.
more good points
An autopilot will be more expensive with the wheel. A tiller type auto is much more econmical and easier to install. Also, it is more difficult to tuck in behind the dodger if you're standing at the wheel. With a tiller you can get a little closer to the dodger when things get brisk. Oh, and you can steer the boat while standing up with the tiller between your knees , leaving your hands free for other duties.
An autopilot will be more expensive with the wheel. A tiller type auto is much more econmical and easier to install. Also, it is more difficult to tuck in behind the dodger if you're standing at the wheel. With a tiller you can get a little closer to the dodger when things get brisk. Oh, and you can steer the boat while standing up with the tiller between your knees , leaving your hands free for other duties.
Personal preference
Jackie, it all boils down to personal preference. If you have sailed a good bit, you should have developed yours. I would make this comparison. A tiller is definately a more intimate sailing experience. You have an instant and immediate and more perceptive feeling of the boat, and for that very reason, it is more trying on you mentally and usually physically as well. A tiller is like having a car with a 5 speed manual transmission. A wheel, if set up properly, on a boat either designed for a wheel, or properly converted, is a much more laid back, less intensive feeling. If you want that constant, intimate contact with every puff and every wave, you cannot beat a tiller. If you prefer an automatic transmission in your car, and a bit of a more relaxed feeling behind the wheel, then the wheel may be for you. I learned to sail of boats with tillers, and my first boat had one. I chartered a 30' Ericson out of Destin, Fl. that had a wheel, and it sailed like no other sailboat with a wheel that I have ever sailed. We were in some pretty good swells, and I could just let go of the wheel and the boat held its course right through them. I was actually very impressed by the fact that I could just rest back against the rear rail and look up at the sail and the boat that was keeping its course. I have not found another wheel steered boat that does that. (not saying that there are not any, I have sailed a fair bit, but not so much in the last 15 years) My 27' Catalina will not hold station like that Ericson did, but it was converted from a tiller to a wheel. Perhaps, one day I will buy an Ericson that holds course like that one did. As a previous post was all about, its all about "what floats your boat"
Jackie, it all boils down to personal preference. If you have sailed a good bit, you should have developed yours. I would make this comparison. A tiller is definately a more intimate sailing experience. You have an instant and immediate and more perceptive feeling of the boat, and for that very reason, it is more trying on you mentally and usually physically as well. A tiller is like having a car with a 5 speed manual transmission. A wheel, if set up properly, on a boat either designed for a wheel, or properly converted, is a much more laid back, less intensive feeling. If you want that constant, intimate contact with every puff and every wave, you cannot beat a tiller. If you prefer an automatic transmission in your car, and a bit of a more relaxed feeling behind the wheel, then the wheel may be for you. I learned to sail of boats with tillers, and my first boat had one. I chartered a 30' Ericson out of Destin, Fl. that had a wheel, and it sailed like no other sailboat with a wheel that I have ever sailed. We were in some pretty good swells, and I could just let go of the wheel and the boat held its course right through them. I was actually very impressed by the fact that I could just rest back against the rear rail and look up at the sail and the boat that was keeping its course. I have not found another wheel steered boat that does that. (not saying that there are not any, I have sailed a fair bit, but not so much in the last 15 years) My 27' Catalina will not hold station like that Ericson did, but it was converted from a tiller to a wheel. Perhaps, one day I will buy an Ericson that holds course like that one did. As a previous post was all about, its all about "what floats your boat"
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