We're planning an Atlantic crossing and extended cruising in Europe & the Med, starting with the UK. One addition I intend to make before leaving is to set up our Sailomat windvane with a small tiller pilot - I'm sure most folks here know about this idea and when it can prove useful. The problem is making a product choice, and especially given the highly variable and sometimes wet conditions we'll occasionally face when sailing in areas like the UK. (I suspect that 'weather' is the #1 killer of cockpit mounted pilots). I care not one smidgen about features, thrust #s or interfacing. I do plan on sewing up a Sunbrella cover with a plastic window, so the unit "should" normally have it's own protection. So ultimately, I guess I'm concerned about watertight integrity, reliability (how long it lasts under 'normal' conditions) and availability of service in Europe when (probably not 'if') it fails. Simrad's low-end unit is a bit cheaper but I've had discouraging service and product performance from them in the past. Raymarine is my biased choice but based exclusively on ignorance. Thus, my query! If any of you have some extended experience with the low-end tiller pilots, I'd surely welcome hearing about it here. You are also welcome to contact me directly via email. Many thanks! Jack WHOOSH, currently lying St. Pete, FL USA jack_patricia@yahoo.com
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Tiller Pilot Choices
Jack, It's really hard to make any recommendations without knowing what kind and size of boat you have. You most already have read that for crossings and extended cruising, below decks pilots are recommended.
Jack, It's really hard to make any recommendations without knowing what kind and size of boat you have. You most already have read that for crossings and extended cruising, below decks pilots are recommended.
Stu, you missed his point....
He is not looking for a tiller pilot to control the helm directly but just to control his windvane, e.g. whenever there is insufficient true wind (i.e. not counting the apparent wind caused by the auxiliary) or he wants to steer a compass or GPS course (rather than a wind course). Thus, he needs very little force but wants maximum reliability and "smarts". We have used a similar set-up for 7 years with our Scanmar AutoHelm windvane -- not to be confused with electromechanical Autohelm equipment -- but use two Navico 5500 tillerpilots. These heavy electromechanical tiller pilots were left over from our earlier attempts to steer Rivendel II (Legend 43) with a 5500 directly controlling the rudder shaft via a special small tiller mounted below the helmsman's seat. Although we successfully completed our first passage to Hawaii and back in 1994 with the 5500s they were only strong enough up to about 20 knot winds and 8-10 ft ft waves. Anything beyond required human intervention. Moreover, by the time we got back to the USA one was seriously worn-out and both had indeed shown moisture problems. Now that they have an easy job steering the windvane instead they appear to last a long time. Still, we do keep them out of direct sunlight and rain or spray by simply sliding a big cotton sock over the pilot and a strong polyethylene bag over the sock. This still alows us to push the buttons underneath. However, I have not done the research necessary to determine which one of the smallest tiller pilots might do the job best. Navico is alas no longer in business. We really liked their service. Also the TP 5500's behavior is surprisingly smart. Perhaps another company has bought their control software. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
He is not looking for a tiller pilot to control the helm directly but just to control his windvane, e.g. whenever there is insufficient true wind (i.e. not counting the apparent wind caused by the auxiliary) or he wants to steer a compass or GPS course (rather than a wind course). Thus, he needs very little force but wants maximum reliability and "smarts". We have used a similar set-up for 7 years with our Scanmar AutoHelm windvane -- not to be confused with electromechanical Autohelm equipment -- but use two Navico 5500 tillerpilots. These heavy electromechanical tiller pilots were left over from our earlier attempts to steer Rivendel II (Legend 43) with a 5500 directly controlling the rudder shaft via a special small tiller mounted below the helmsman's seat. Although we successfully completed our first passage to Hawaii and back in 1994 with the 5500s they were only strong enough up to about 20 knot winds and 8-10 ft ft waves. Anything beyond required human intervention. Moreover, by the time we got back to the USA one was seriously worn-out and both had indeed shown moisture problems. Now that they have an easy job steering the windvane instead they appear to last a long time. Still, we do keep them out of direct sunlight and rain or spray by simply sliding a big cotton sock over the pilot and a strong polyethylene bag over the sock. This still alows us to push the buttons underneath. However, I have not done the research necessary to determine which one of the smallest tiller pilots might do the job best. Navico is alas no longer in business. We really liked their service. Also the TP 5500's behavior is surprisingly smart. Perhaps another company has bought their control software. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
Hank -
Navico was purchased by Simrad who still have the TillerPilot line, although with a different number series (TP10, TP30). Derek
Navico was purchased by Simrad who still have the TillerPilot line, although with a different number series (TP10, TP30). Derek
Hank got it right...
...in his description how we intend to use the tiller pilot. Forces will be very small as all the work will be done by the servo oar & force of the water passing by it. What I'm hoping folks here can comment on is their first-hand (preferably longer term) experience with the TP10 and ST1000 as they are the two new units currently available as I understand it. Jack
...in his description how we intend to use the tiller pilot. Forces will be very small as all the work will be done by the servo oar & force of the water passing by it. What I'm hoping folks here can comment on is their first-hand (preferably longer term) experience with the TP10 and ST1000 as they are the two new units currently available as I understand it. Jack
Thanks, Henk...
...for describing the situation. Sounds like a great idea. Anybody have specs on the "sock?!?" Jack, Raymarine, the ST folks, have recently included all sorts of detailed (i.e., wild) algorithms in their programming which has made the ST4000+a very difficult machine to calibrate, based on posts on this website and others (i.e., www.c34.org). I chose to stay with the ST3000 as a replacement for my old 14-16 year old unit that passed away a few months ago. I am very pleased with its performance. It has none of the problems associated with the ST4000 calibration / programming, and is simple and easy to use. Without checking, I would assume that the ST1000 tiller uses the same, KISS internal logic. Based on my old experiences on our former Catalina 25, with the "late, great" Navico tillerpilot (the last of the models to have the "you turn the compass dial instead of pushing buttons" unit) it was robust and worked great, too. Why they switched to buttons, specially for tiller pilots, is disappointing, but we all know the answer to that one. The one thing I have seen is that the materials of construction just aren't as good as they used to be. Plastic has replaced metal, for both the housings and even the mounting bracket for my ST3000. I left the old metal bracket in place, glad the new "box" fit the old plate. Since both of these units you are discussing are the "bare bones" basic units (thankfully with the simpler internal logic), the only differences I can imagine would be amp draw, basic strength and torque. The internals of how the "stick" is moved also is a factor. For instance, the ST1000 is $450 for a 5,450 # boat, while the ST2000 is $200 more with a "more efficient recirculating ball drive for larger boats and greater loads," for a 10,000# boat. Only other consideration would be servicing. While not an issue when "out there", wherever you may be going, or staying, may make a difference in your selection based on which manufacturer has better worldwide support. Finally, based on backup, backup, backup, why not get one of each?
(Dagnabbit, the plugs for the wiring's probably different?!?) Good luck. Stu
...for describing the situation. Sounds like a great idea. Anybody have specs on the "sock?!?" Jack, Raymarine, the ST folks, have recently included all sorts of detailed (i.e., wild) algorithms in their programming which has made the ST4000+a very difficult machine to calibrate, based on posts on this website and others (i.e., www.c34.org). I chose to stay with the ST3000 as a replacement for my old 14-16 year old unit that passed away a few months ago. I am very pleased with its performance. It has none of the problems associated with the ST4000 calibration / programming, and is simple and easy to use. Without checking, I would assume that the ST1000 tiller uses the same, KISS internal logic. Based on my old experiences on our former Catalina 25, with the "late, great" Navico tillerpilot (the last of the models to have the "you turn the compass dial instead of pushing buttons" unit) it was robust and worked great, too. Why they switched to buttons, specially for tiller pilots, is disappointing, but we all know the answer to that one. The one thing I have seen is that the materials of construction just aren't as good as they used to be. Plastic has replaced metal, for both the housings and even the mounting bracket for my ST3000. I left the old metal bracket in place, glad the new "box" fit the old plate. Since both of these units you are discussing are the "bare bones" basic units (thankfully with the simpler internal logic), the only differences I can imagine would be amp draw, basic strength and torque. The internals of how the "stick" is moved also is a factor. For instance, the ST1000 is $450 for a 5,450 # boat, while the ST2000 is $200 more with a "more efficient recirculating ball drive for larger boats and greater loads," for a 10,000# boat. Only other consideration would be servicing. While not an issue when "out there", wherever you may be going, or staying, may make a difference in your selection based on which manufacturer has better worldwide support. Finally, based on backup, backup, backup, why not get one of each?
(Dagnabbit, the plugs for the wiring's probably different?!?) Good luck. StuFollow-up Q on Autohelm 1000
A fellow on another BB just offered me his untried Autohelm 1000 (came with the boat) for a small fee. I don't know a thing about this older unit and was hoping Stu & others who were familiar with it might have a word or two to share. E.g. metal body? waterproof (within reason)? ease of use? I asked for the serial # so I could ask Raymarine if they still service this type of unit. OTOH yet another fellow mentioned he loved his old AH 1000 because, when it failed, he could open it up at a Radio Shack store and find all the parts he needed to replace. I'm still wondering if that's an endorsement or not... <g> Jack
A fellow on another BB just offered me his untried Autohelm 1000 (came with the boat) for a small fee. I don't know a thing about this older unit and was hoping Stu & others who were familiar with it might have a word or two to share. E.g. metal body? waterproof (within reason)? ease of use? I asked for the serial # so I could ask Raymarine if they still service this type of unit. OTOH yet another fellow mentioned he loved his old AH 1000 because, when it failed, he could open it up at a Radio Shack store and find all the parts he needed to replace. I'm still wondering if that's an endorsement or not... <g> Jack
Thanks for that useful info, Derek
Perhaps some of the newer Simrad parts may still be exchangeable with our old TP 5500 once we have completely cannibalized the second unit. (after all, Rivendel II is now in the "cannibal islands" :0)) OTOH, I hope the Simrad engineers have removed the puzzling "vent holes" in the body of the old TP 5500 which makes it impossible to fully protect against rain and spray without the previously described "sock". In fact, in 1994 when one of our crew members in a fit of enthusiasm started cleaning the cockpit (roughly halfway between Hawaii and California) by dumping an entire bucket of salt water over the TP 5500 unit mounted on the cockpit sole we all became immediately aware of his mistake since the TP5500 suddenly steered us into a gybe when the circuit board shorted out! BTW, Stu if you meant to ask what the dimensions of the protective sock were, one of the legs of an old pair of cotton pants will do just fine, as its only function is to keep the sun from hitting the pilot directly (plus perhaps wicking a few drops of moisture away that might slip past the tightly wrapped neck of the outer plastic bag in heavy rain). Fair winds, Flying Dutchman
Perhaps some of the newer Simrad parts may still be exchangeable with our old TP 5500 once we have completely cannibalized the second unit. (after all, Rivendel II is now in the "cannibal islands" :0)) OTOH, I hope the Simrad engineers have removed the puzzling "vent holes" in the body of the old TP 5500 which makes it impossible to fully protect against rain and spray without the previously described "sock". In fact, in 1994 when one of our crew members in a fit of enthusiasm started cleaning the cockpit (roughly halfway between Hawaii and California) by dumping an entire bucket of salt water over the TP 5500 unit mounted on the cockpit sole we all became immediately aware of his mistake since the TP5500 suddenly steered us into a gybe when the circuit board shorted out! BTW, Stu if you meant to ask what the dimensions of the protective sock were, one of the legs of an old pair of cotton pants will do just fine, as its only function is to keep the sun from hitting the pilot directly (plus perhaps wicking a few drops of moisture away that might slip past the tightly wrapped neck of the outer plastic bag in heavy rain). Fair winds, Flying Dutchman
Anyone recognize: Nautech Autohelm 1000?
Anyone here know if this is a product made by the company now known as Raymarine? Thanks...again. Jack
Anyone here know if this is a product made by the company now known as Raymarine? Thanks...again. Jack
Autohelm 1000: nice, but...
Jack, You said someone offered to sell you an Autohelm 1000. I had one of these, used it on my ODay 25 CB, and loved it, but beware, it's no longer supported at all. I tried to get mine fixed by Raytheon (who had the product line then) a few years ago, spoke directly with the techs, and was told they no longer supported it. They offered to sell me under list, and I accepted and did buy, an Autohelm ST1000+. I use it. The 1000 had a round dial/knob on top with a compass rose on it. To change course you just rotated the knob (against friction) to the new heading. Very easy. The 1000+ is all "electronic": push buttons, LCD readout, etc., and it interfaces with other devices that are compatible with the SeaTalk system. (I don't do this.) I suspect the 1000+ is more susceptible to problems caused by water getting in, but at least it could be fixed (now by Raymarine). A brief dunk in salt water killed my (then 15 or more year old) 1000. I took it home, took it apart, thoroughly fresh-water rinsed everything I could, dried it out completely, and tried to get it working again. The "motor" part of it worked fine if I applied 12 V dc power to it directly. The "electronics" part of it was the problem, and, as I said, Raytheon would no longer service it. I'd recommend you getting the 1000 if it's cheap, as a backup, and get a new Raymarine ST 1000+ to main use. You didn't say what your boat is, so I don't know if this is the proper size tiller pilot for you. Good luck. Peter
Jack, You said someone offered to sell you an Autohelm 1000. I had one of these, used it on my ODay 25 CB, and loved it, but beware, it's no longer supported at all. I tried to get mine fixed by Raytheon (who had the product line then) a few years ago, spoke directly with the techs, and was told they no longer supported it. They offered to sell me under list, and I accepted and did buy, an Autohelm ST1000+. I use it. The 1000 had a round dial/knob on top with a compass rose on it. To change course you just rotated the knob (against friction) to the new heading. Very easy. The 1000+ is all "electronic": push buttons, LCD readout, etc., and it interfaces with other devices that are compatible with the SeaTalk system. (I don't do this.) I suspect the 1000+ is more susceptible to problems caused by water getting in, but at least it could be fixed (now by Raymarine). A brief dunk in salt water killed my (then 15 or more year old) 1000. I took it home, took it apart, thoroughly fresh-water rinsed everything I could, dried it out completely, and tried to get it working again. The "motor" part of it worked fine if I applied 12 V dc power to it directly. The "electronics" part of it was the problem, and, as I said, Raytheon would no longer service it. I'd recommend you getting the 1000 if it's cheap, as a backup, and get a new Raymarine ST 1000+ to main use. You didn't say what your boat is, so I don't know if this is the proper size tiller pilot for you. Good luck. Peter
Thanks, Peter...
The comments on absence of support were helpful; that's the kind of info I was looking for re: the older unit. (Does "Nautech Autohelm 1000, made in England" sound like the unit you had?) Our boat is a Pearson 424 with wheel steering; I'm planning on using the tiller pilot as an alternative to the vane on driving my Sailomat windvane. This can be handled by any tiller pilot as the forces are miniscule. Jack
The comments on absence of support were helpful; that's the kind of info I was looking for re: the older unit. (Does "Nautech Autohelm 1000, made in England" sound like the unit you had?) Our boat is a Pearson 424 with wheel steering; I'm planning on using the tiller pilot as an alternative to the vane on driving my Sailomat windvane. This can be handled by any tiller pilot as the forces are miniscule. Jack
Made In England...
... is the key. Jack It's one of the "golden oldies." Our old ST3000 was "Made In Betty-land." If the price is right, and it works, why not? Even if "they" can't fix it. These days, it's not repairable, but replaceable. Globalization is upon us, glad we can sail. Keep us posted. Stu PS: A Pearson 424 (ketch version) was one of the first boats we sailed on here in California, and one that got us hooked together on this wonderful sport. Have fun.
... is the key. Jack It's one of the "golden oldies." Our old ST3000 was "Made In Betty-land." If the price is right, and it works, why not? Even if "they" can't fix it. These days, it's not repairable, but replaceable. Globalization is upon us, glad we can sail. Keep us posted. Stu PS: A Pearson 424 (ketch version) was one of the first boats we sailed on here in California, and one that got us hooked together on this wonderful sport. Have fun.
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