Tiller Extension for a C22

[MacGreg]

I've been posting much about broaching and heeling lately with some great answers that are much appreciated. I have much to learn. I posted that many times the only way to not broach the boat in the 15+ mph winds (and the seems-almost-constant 20 to 30 mph gusts) was to release the tiller and kick it hard away so that the boat will round up into the wind. While I learn to master my new found friend; the mainsheet, I am wondering if I should instal a tiller extension as releasing the tiller is not a very comfortable feeling for me. And I am wondering if this is the one to get;
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...&subdeptNum=50145&classNum=50146#.UZU-3-A0rFF

 

[Joe]

While a tiller extension is a very handy device, allowing you to steer from a myriad of positions in the cockpit, it will not really improve your "panic button" approach to sailing.

Your solution to getting over powered, by allowing the boat to broach, is exactly the wrong way to handle the situation, as noted by others in your previous post. The tiller extension will NOT help your control the situation better.... in fact it may make things worse until you change your mentality on how to handle gusty conditions.

Before you spend money on a tiller extension, make an investment in a good "learn to sail" book and video... or take some sailing lessons.... a much better use of your sailing funds.

 

[Merlin Clark]

What Joe said.
Sorry I scanned your previous post and now can't find it.
Are you maybe setting your sails and not adjusting for wind direction? I have a friend that always sails that way, even though he knows better.
This is a handy graphic I share with people that sail with me and are new to the sport, all you need is an idea of the relative wind direction and this can be accomplished with yarn tied as high in the shrouds as you can reach.
It can give you an idea of where the sails should be set in relation to the wind and the boats heading.

 

[StanFM]

I agree with the advice. I added a tiller extension for racing, and it has advantages, but it can also be an extra item to get in the way when tacking. If you get one, also get the small clip that will hold it in place back out of the way against the tiller. The extension is awkward at first, and I wouldn't bother with one right now. I got mine after a year of learning and two racing series, and it was still weird to get used to at first.

Stan

 

[watercolors II]

Learn to sail first

The stock sails and sail controls on a Catalina 22 are there to handle any wind condition. Learning to use these stock controls is your first priority and adding additional controls will only cause more problems as these other fellows are stating.

Don’t trick your boat up like the other guy, learn to use those basic controls so you have an understanding what a add on will do. I spent 4 years, sailing every weekend before I knew what I needed. Sailing is a life time learning experience and as stated above, put your money into books, videos, and professional training before the trick stuff!

 

[CCrane2299]

My boat came with two. One of them ripped out of the tiller when the rudder fell over. I had to saw the tiller off about 5 inches short to clean up the splinters. I agree with the above, get a clip to hold it while not using it.

 

[MacGreg]

What Joe said.
Sorry I scanned your previous post and now can't find it.
Are you maybe setting your sails and not adjusting for wind direction? I have a friend that always sails that way, even though he knows better.
This is a handy graphic I share with people that sail with me and are new to the sport, all you need is an idea of the relative wind direction and this can be accomplished with yarn tied as high in the shrouds as you can reach.
It can give you an idea of where the sails should be set in relation to the wind and the boats heading.

I do adjust sails similarly to the link which you shared. The near-broach/excessive heel only happens when close-hulled and typically only in 15+ mph winds and more often only in 20-30 mph gusts. I have everything else under control. My sail is adjusted exactly as the picture shows for close-hulled when this happens.

 

[captcoho]

I do adjust sails similarly to the link which you shared. The near-broach/excessive heel only happens when close-hulled and typically only in 15+ mph winds and more often only in 20-30 mph gusts. I have everything else under control. My sail is adjusted exactly as the picture shows for close-hulled when this happens.

Do you have the main reefed in the 15+ winds ??? At that point, don't need much head-sail. Either reef the jib if furled, or a small or almost like a storm jib......
That b

 

[captcoho]

That boat powers-up easily, and over 15 plus with gusts you don't need to carry aslot of sail.

 

[captcoho]

I've been posting much about broaching and heeling lately with some great answers that are much appreciated. I have much to learn. I posted that many times the only way to not broach the boat in the 15+ mph winds (and the seems-almost-constant 20 to 30 mph gusts) was to release the tiller and kick it hard away so that the boat will round up into the wind. While I learn to master my new found friend; the mainsheet, I am wondering if I should instal a tiller extension as releasing the tiller is not a very comfortable feeling for me. And I am wondering if this is the one to get;
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...&subdeptNum=50145&classNum=50146#.UZU-3-A0rFF

" Kick it hard away" ???? In those winds close-hauled it should feel like King Neptune is pulling on the rudder

 

[Merlin Clark]

Oh yeah, definitely need to reduce sail!

 

[MacGreg]

Do you have the main reefed in the 15+ winds ??? At that point, don't need much head-sail. Either reef the jib if furled, or a small or almost like a storm jib......
That b

I'm usually not reefed when this happens. It's usually due to gusts. Do you feel I need to reef the mainsail in 15 mph winds with a 110 jib?

 

[MacGreg]

" Kick it hard away" ???? In those winds close-hauled it should feel like King Neptune is pulling on the rudder

It feels good but the winds in the region are very gusty and changing. It typically happens in a wind direction change and/or a gust. Which in this region happens every few minutes.

 

[GorillaToast]

Reefing the main in 15+ winds is a good idea. Are you also paying attention to the surface of the water? You can see when a gust is coming by looking for darker areas on the surface that are approaching from the true wind direction.

I keep my mainsheet in hand always, when its windy, and I react instantly when I feel too much heeling.

 

[MacGreg]

Reefing the main in 15+ winds is a good idea. Are you also paying attention to the surface of the water? You can see when a gust is coming by looking for darker areas on the surface that are approaching from the true wind direction.

I keep my mainsheet in hand always, when its windy, and I react instantly when I feel too much heeling.

The gusts are pretty much constant and typically caused by clear cuts up and down the bay where the wind escapes thru. There are about 1500 of them up and down the bay. If I kept my eye out for them I'd drain my adrenals in about 10 minutes. The bay is so narrow that they pretty much come without warning. I'd do better just watching for the tree branches.

 

[Joe]

I do adjust sails similarly to the link which you shared. The near-broach/excessive heel only happens when close-hulled and typically only in 15+ mph winds and more often only in 20-30 mph gusts. I have everything else under control. My sail is adjusted exactly as the picture shows for close-hulled when this happens.

First of all, it's close HAULED, not hulled. The diagram that Merlinuxo posted decribes "points of sail" and are based on TRUE wind direction. It may help you initially set your sails.... but you must understand that sails are ultimately trimmed to APPARENT wind direction.

Learning the difference between APPARENT wind and TRUE wind speed and direction is very basic to sailing... again, it is very important that you understand the difference and how it affects your sailing experience.

Your wind indicator, whether it is a vane at the masthead, a piece of yarn tied to the shrouds, or the back of your neck... gives you APPARENT wind info... the apparent wind direction is affected by boat speed and windspeed.. so you can be on a beam reach (where true wind direction is at 90 deg) but the wind indicator may be pointing well forward, giving you the impression that you are close hauled.

So, rather than try and present a primer on sailing.... I recommend, again, that you invest in a few good sailing instuctional books and video's, even better sign up for some sailing classes. There are free instructional classes online.... USSailing.org offers one.... there's plenty of stuff on YouTube also. The important thing is to start at the beginning a progress through the course... then go back through it again... concentrating on the parts that you feel will help you most...

The crux of your experience is that, as many beginners do, you think that there's too much to do at once, so you try to "steer" your way out of trouble. A little experience and attention to basics will change your attitude... so that soon, instead of jamming the stick to leeward when the boat heels too much for your liking, you will simply ease the sheet and gently steer upwind(or in some cases, downwind) until the boat is upright.

 

[MacGreg]

First of all, it's close HAULED, not hulled. The diagram that Merlinuxo posted decribes "points of sail" and are based on TRUE wind direction. It may help you initially set your sails.... but you must understand that sails are ultimately trimmed to APPARENT wind direction.

Learning the difference between APPARENT wind and TRUE wind speed and direction is very basic to sailing... again, it is very important that you understand the difference and how it affects your sailing experience.

Your wind indicator, whether it is a vane at the masthead, a piece of yarn tied to the shrouds, or the back of your neck... gives you APPARENT wind info... the apparent wind direction is affected by boat speed and windspeed.. so you can be on a beam reach (where true wind direction is at 90 deg) but the wind indicator may be pointing well forward, giving you the impression that you are close hauled.

So, rather than try and present a primer on sailing.... I recommend, again, that you invest in a few good sailing instuctional books and video's, even better sign up for some sailing classes. There are free instructional classes online.... USSailing.org offers one.... there's plenty of stuff on YouTube also. The important thing is to start at the beginning a progress through the course... then go back through it again... concentrating on the parts that you feel will help you most...

The crux of your experience is that, as many beginners do, you think that there's too much to do at once, so you try to "steer" your way out of trouble. A little experience and attention to basics will change your attitude... so that soon, instead of jamming the stick to leeward when the boat heels too much for your liking, you will simply ease the sheet and gently steer upwind(or in some cases, downwind) until the boat is upright.

Thanks for the good advice. Ive done some reading and watched 100 YouTube videos. Unfortunetly for me real life experience is the only way I learn. I just need to kidnap someone off the docks and throw them on the boat and have them watch me/show me. I'll pick it up quick. I'm just not used to gusty winds and tiny boats.

I have a bunch of hours of basic experience but in steady So. Cal 7-11 mph with occasional 15-16 mph winds with no tree blockage and on a 27 Ericsson. It's an entirely different story. I'd go out in the strongest winds I could and fly full mainsail and my 150 jib and barely heel. I could never get enough power nor speed. On this C22 it seems like I'm always over powered even with the single reef and the 110. I think I just like a lot of boat around me. This thing is like a kayak.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for the good advice. .

I've sailed my Nacra on enough lakes to know what you're talking about.... it's much more difficult than sailing a heavier keelboat in a constant ocean breeze..... very sensitive to any kind of wind change..... Anyhow.... you need to get into a dinghy sailor frame of mind an sail with the tiller in one hand and the mainsheet/traveller in the other. On my Nacra, I tied the main sheet and single line traveller together end to end with a sheet bend.... that way I could easily find one or the other.... and most importantly... don't cleat the mainsheet unless you can release it very quickly....

The aforementioned tiller extension will be a benefit once you get used to working the mainsheet.... that way you can sit up to weather on the gunwhale, watching your jib telltales with the sheet in the aft hand and the tiller extension in the forward hand while your body weight helps counter balance the heeling... if you cross winch the jib sheet it will be close at hand if that needs a quick adjustment also, without having to go across the cockpit. A good improvement is to install open top cam cleats(as in no fairlead) so you can cleat and uncleat the jib sheets from a distance.... have fun.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Something doesn't add up here. Near broaching in 15 knot winds with gusts to what, maybe 20? The Catalina 22 is not that tender and this should not be happening with a 110 jib. The C-22 is not comparable to an unballasted daysailer or a catamaran, no way.

Please forgive the remedial question. Do you have a swing keel or fixed? If swing, is it lowered? Are you SURE it's lowered and not stuck in the retracted position?

BTW, don't worry about the close-hulled thing, we knew what you meant. There are many members here with considerable experience who are pretty brutal with the traditional vernacular but we somehow manage just fine.

 

[GorillaToast]

Is this happening when you're sailing along at 4+ knots, or is after executing a tack and your speed has dropped considerably? I find that if I get too sloppy in the tack, and get hit by a gust, I almost put the rails in the water. The trick for me is not to let her head up, but to pull hard, holding my heading, until the speed gets back up.

My boat does not play well with gusts when I'm moving at less than 2.5 kts. I think the lift produced by the keel helps fight heeling the faster you're going. That's why I'll fall off a bit if necessary to pick up speed prior to tacking. I hope this makes sense,