Tightening rudder packing nuts?

[ish]

I've had a persistent leak from the rudder shaft since early last year. I had planned to haul out in December and re-pack the gland, but a cold snap put paid to that plan (the primary goal was getting the hull painted, but paint doesn't dry too well below freezing!). Now I have a trip to go on next week, and I am thinking that perhaps I can do something to slow the leak down, at least, until I can haul out and fix it permanently in the spring.

Getting in there today and looking over the situation, I found that in fact the packing nuts were loose enough that they could be turned by hand, which might have been the real problem in the first place. Unfortunately, I didn't have wrenches large enough to take a shot at tightening them, but it occurs to me I am not sure exactly how I would go about that, anyway. The nuts are immediately below a fiberglass shelf of sorts; the only way I can get at them is removing the aft panel in the quarterberth and reaching through.

That leaves very little room to work, and the nuts are large; I'm guessing 2" at least, and I am having trouble seeing how I am going to get two wrenches in there and on them and be able to apply pressure at the same time. Moreover, I'm not sure exactly which way to go to tighten them down. They are counter-rotating, but does one have to be positioned properly first and the other tightened against it? If so, which, and in what order? Does anyone have any suggestions for tools or techniques to get in at the nuts? I've got a couple of pipe wrenches that are about the only things large enough to fit on them, but they might be too big to fit into the little notch in the hull where the rudder shaft sits.

I'd post a picture but it's dark already and my flash camera is not here on the boat. I can try to get one up tomorrow if it would help explain what I am seeing, but I imagine if you have done this before you probably already know what I am talking about.

Thanks for any advice you might have to offer!

Scott

 

[Manny]

slip nut wrench may work

My 27' probably has the same setup as yours. I've attached a picture to compare. I've never tightened mine but I bet this tool would work:

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It opens up to 3 inches and looks to be the same as what West Marine sells for stuffing boxes. There was a pretty good post about the stuffing boxes a while back, maybe you can search the forums for it.

Manny

edited to add - Here's the post I mentioned, may be helpful: http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=584430

 

[SamLust]

Ish;

I couldn't have explained the process better! That's exactly how you do it. Pull out that panel and throw it away. I did mine because I don't like the idea of fighting with a useless panel if the poop is in the fan. What you have there is a larger nut that compresses the packing and a smaller 'jam" nut that locks it in place. If your nuts are loose the tool Manny suggests can work. Otherwise you need to be creative. I used a compressed air powered chisel to loosen mine. Check the compression nut closely, it could be mostly rust due to bad design/material choices. I had to have one made.

Manny; the 33 is similar to the 27 except much worse because there is a fiberglass plate just above the packing that supports the weight of the rudder. You're wedged in between the plate and the converging walls if the "princess fairing". Pictures explain discomfort.

 

[Ed Schenck]

In the first picture is a gland like my H37C. The big rings are for compression. The small bolts, 9/16" I think, are what pull the the two rings together to compress the packing. You can't see them in Sam's pictures because they are below that shelf.

Is the H33 different, the big rings are actually threaded?

 

[Paul F]

Ed, Scott, Sam is the master of these stern stuffing boxes and likely he will respond. It appears the 33 is different from the other Cherubinis in this area. The stuffing box used is the same as used on the prop shaft. A gland and tightening nut coupled with a locking nut. The systems works. The problem is there is no access space available to adjust and service the gland. Normally this gland does not leak because it is out of water when the boat is level sitting at the dock. It is only when under sail or power when the stern is lowered that the gland leaks.

 

[Ed Schenck]

On reexamination I do see the two large flat sided compression rings. So it would take a magician with two standard packing wrenches. But not a lot different from working on mine which is tight up under the steering radial wheel(pic).

 

[SamLust]

When I attacked My rudder packing what little remained of the upper flax containment nut was corroded solidly to the stainless rudder tube. The only way I was able to break it free was to drag an air powed hammer/chisel with a pointed tip on it. I placed it at an angle to the tip of the nut's flat and hammered away. A tool I find effective is a Vise Grip 12wr which has long curved jaws. I keep two of them on the boat. I can grab the nuts an any point of rotation, unlike a more common packing nut wrench. (Which is actually a kitchen sink fitting wrench.) Once firmly clamped onto the nuts I can extend them by cutting electrical conduit to exactly the length I need and slip it over the knurled screw end. It's the most effective tool I have come up with for that job. Picture of 12"long jaw below.

 

[Ed Schenck]

I like those pliers and I hate the packing nut wrench. Those pliers should work well for both rudder and shaft logs. I forgot too that there was another H33 rudder stuffing box project in "Hunter Owner Mods":
http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_kb&Itemid=267&cat_id=28&aid=7006&page=article&mn=33_77-83 .

 

[Ken Palmer]

I like those pliers and I hate the packing nut wrench. Those pliers should work well for both rudder and shaft logs. I forgot too that there was another H33 rudder stuffing box project in "Hunter Owner Mods":
http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_kb&Itemid=267&cat_id=28&aid=7006&page=article&mn=33_77-83 .

That was my article. I guess that I was feeling the need to have something published at the time I owned the 1981 Hunter 33. I don't recall there being any problem with the procedure as listed.

I have since sold the boat and own a Hunter 1990 33.5. A totally different design. I ended up having that rudder re-built by Foss Foam in Florida, and working great.

 

[ish]

Thank you all! That's fantastic information, what a great response! Those vise grip pliers look perfect, large enough to grip the nuts but small enough to squeeze into the space available. And you've described the mechanics of the thing perfectly as well... my boat had a dripless shaft seal retrofitted onto the prop shaft by a previous owner so I had never seen this mechanism before, and as you can see from those pictures that Sam posted, I couldn't get a clear view of it under that shelf. I think I have a pretty good idea what to do now and how to do it. I'll give it a shot this weekend and let you know how it went!

 

[ish]

Well, I wasn't able to locate those vice grips in any of the hardware stores I had time to check before getting to the boat this weekend, but I did pick up a large pair of channel-locks, and those did the job (although with more cursing and skinned knuckles than probably would have been necessary with the right tools). I didn't get the leak completely eliminated but I have reduced the inflow considerably, which is very reassuring as I am heading out tomorrow. Fully repacking the nut will wait for a haul-out and an assistant with much smaller hands.

Thank you all again for the advice and assistance! It was dead easy once I knew what I was looking at and needed to do exactly.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Way to go Scott. But still disturbing that water continues to drip. Is it a drip? Is it just when motoring? My packing is above the waterline unless big crew in the cockpit. Did you put in new packing? From what you wrote I guess you just tightened it.

 

[ish]

I did just tighten it. My assumption is that the packing is shot and needs to be replaced, so I had not expected tightening it to completely resolve the issue... that will have to wait for a haul-out. It is not actually dripping any longer, but there is a perpetual sheen of water coming down the threads and shaft that eventually puddles up and flows over the support shelf. I can live with that for a few months.

It does come in even when at rest, although it is worse when motoring and the stern squats lower in the water. I believe on the 33, or at least on ours when it is loaded normally, the nut is below the waterline even at rest. I haven't done any measurements to back that belief up, however.