Thoughts on moving the teak handrails to the pop-up

[brockangelo]

So, I am likely going to want to upgrade my deck organizers to support more lines, and part of that will mean installing more cleats under my hand rail. My slip neighbor in the marina also has a C22 and has his hand rails mounted on the pop top.

I really loved this idea because I would miss not having the hand rails, and it would essentially open up the sides for lines to come back and for me to install clutches or more cleats.

Anybody know of any serious issue with doing that? I imagine it will add a couple of pounds to the pop top, but I don't see that being an issue. Also, I have a feeling I am gonna want three cleats or clutches on each side. What do you guys recommend for each? I just have one cam cleat on each side, but already have a main halyard and downhaul on starboard and jib halyard and downhaul on port, so I think I should just plan ahead and upgrade to three on each side.

 

[Jacktar]

Make sure you have sturdy reliable hold downs inside for the poptop, Two large guys grabbing a either end in an emergency could strain those hold down and the pop top lifts and may tear loose.

 

[LakeShark]

Anybody know of any serious issue with doing that? I imagine it will add a couple of pounds to the pop top, but I don't see that being an issue. Also, I have a feeling I am gonna want three cleats or clutches on each side. What do you guys recommend for each? I just have one cam cleat on each side, but already have a main halyard and downhaul on starboard and jib halyard and downhaul on port, so I think I should just plan ahead and upgrade to three on each side.

only 2 issues and they may not apply to you.

1. Your standard Pop-top leather cover will no longer fit. They are tight even without the handrails up there so the extra height would likely be an issue.

2. If your pop-top is not locked down well the top could shift if the rails were used in a knockdown or something. Really its just a matter of making sure nothing moves if they are needed

As for the number of clutches that is up to you and depends on how many lines you'll be running back. I have double cam levers from Spinlock on each side (less maintenance than a clutch on a small boat) and I cant really see me needing more. For me its the main, jib, and Spin halyards that I run to the cockpit. Having 4 slots gives room for something more but I haven't needed it.

Some racers will install a bridge over the top with the vang, downhaul, Cunningham, Job Cunningham, topping lift, etc. But I like just having those lines in the open companion way instead of a dedicated location this time. I also only use the downhaul and Vang as I have not set up the Jib Cunningham or the lines for the pole on a Spin.

 

[brockangelo]

That's good to know about the cover; I don't have one, but have looked at those in the past. And good points about the pop-top moving if really trying to grab onto the rails. I typically sail with the pop-top slid forward and the companionway open, though when we do Lake Erie we're probably going to keep it locked closed. Most of the times I have used the rails have been either setting up the boat before going out, or if something comes up while raising the sails and pointed into the wind - I've had to climb forward to untangle the sail a couple times.

All good things to think about.

Are these the type of cam levers from Spinlock you have? Spinlock Mini-Jammers

 

[LakeShark]

@brockangelo Yup those are the jammers I use. They work great but do settle back about 1/8-1/4 inch when freeing the winch. Not generally a big deal but for racing that small change can affect quite a bit. So I tighten and then release letting it settle back on the line and then use the downhaul on the main to set the luff tension.

Generally it is recommended not to sail with the pop-top raised but in certain conditions some do and its fine. I generally sail with the top down and hatch fully open. Even in a big blow it would take quite a bit to get inside much. The greater danger is a full knockdown to Starboard on a new design (port on the original if I remember correctly) as often the lazarett will flop open allowing water to flood directly into the cabin. If your out in spirited conditions I would latch the lazarett fully. On the bright side though the boat does come back up once you get the sails out of the water. Trust me I know and there is even a write up on the whole thing in an issue of the Main Brace from the Catalina Association a few years back.

 

[AaronD]

CatalinaDirect recommends that the pop-top be secured by 4 dogs (vs. the original 2) - if you move your handrails, you might want to consider that advice.

Now they sell a SS model that I'm sure is more secure than the stock models. That's one of the few paranoid projects that I haven't yet invested in (at $40+ each, it's $175+ with s/h to replace the pop-top dogs, and more if I did the forward hatch too - anyone have a suggestion for a cheaper-but-still-solid option? I spent a little time browsing McMaster-Carr and didn't spot a good solution).

And definitely let us know how it goes - I might be interested in putting handrails back on.

 

[brockangelo]

Using 4 dogs is a good idea, but yeah, gulp, that's pretty pricey. Probably worth it if I move the hand rails from a safety perspective though.

For what it's worth, I don't have the clips for securing my 2 dogs, but found this as a workable solution that holds them up and out of the way. These little elastic bungees with the ball on the end loop around them and hold them out of the way while raising and lowering the top.

 

[Grotto]

I am actually thinking of going the other way and completely removing the hand rails. I asked my wife 5’1” if she could reach the rails while moving on the side deck while underway. I never could unless kneeling on the side deck standing no way. So other than looking shippy and something else to clutter the cabin top I have not seen any utility thus far.