Thinking of buying this boat...

woodster · Jul 4, 2013

toddorts said:
Hi everyone. I was referred to your expert advice by someone over at Cruisers Forum. I'm thinking about buying a boat that someone I know is selling, but I'm not very familiar with S2 boats. Wondering if everyone here could let me know if this is a fair price and a good boat for my skills and desires.

The boat is a 1978 S2 9.2C center cockpit. Here's what it has for equipment:

18hp Volvo diesel motor with 3 blade prop
24 gallon fuel tank
40 gallon water tank
12 volt DC battery system plus separate starter battery
Delta anchor with electric windlass, 150' chain rode
Rigging equipped primarily for cruising with roller furling
Dacron North sails (main, genoa, genaker)
4 55-watt solar panels
Gimbaled alcohol stove
Refrigerator
GPS chart plotter
ST 4000 autopilot (not linked to the GPS)
Depth sounder
16 mi radar
Standard Horizon radio
Wind speed indicator

He's asking $25,000. Last hauled out and had the bottom painted last year. It doesn't have air conditioning, which is something I would want to have installed, so any thoughts on that would also be appreciated.

Is the price fair, and is this a good boat for a relatively inexperienced sailor to have for a day cruiser and maybe short-term liveaboard for a few weeks out of the year? He was using it to island hop the Bahamas during the summer and was living aboard, so apparently it's doable, just wondering how doable.

Appreciate any help in advance. Thanks.

welcome to the forum....the best advice anyone on here can give you i hire a surveyor and let him give you an idea of what the boat is worth....everyone can say this and that but if you have a pro look at it he will tell you the plus and minuses as well ...hope this helps...

regards

woody

BobM · Jul 5, 2013

My opinion

Is the price fair?
It is hard to say. 9.2C's sell for more than 9.2A's, but 25K should reflect a 9.2C in very good condition or very well equipped. If the boat is equipped to be a liveaboard it may have expensive gear for cruising, such as solar panels, a wind vane steering system, updated refrigeration, radar, recent instruments...etc...to justify the fairly aggressive price.

Is this a good boat for a relatively inexperienced sailor to have for a day cruiser and maybe short-term liveaboard for a few weeks out of the year?
The 9.2C is a very unique boat. I have a 9.2A but have been aboard a 9.2C. Within reason, a 30 foot boat is easier (in my opinion) to handle than a smaller boat as things happen slower on a bigger boat but a 30 is still small enough that when tacked smartly I don't even need my winch handles, except for fine adjustments. 90% of the time I sail solo with no significant issues. I do keep the boat on a mooring, but I have also left and arrived on a dock solo, but to be fair I am unpracticed at that and it is stressful for me to do so.

With regards to living aboard. The 9.2C is suitable for living aboard from a space perspective HOWEVER. Unless you plan to liveaboard in a slip, any small sailboat will have tankage limitations that will mean accommodations must be made. You didn't mention the holding tank. Mine is 12 gallons. With careful use it might last two people 3-5 days. If you are in a location where you can macerate and pump overboard (nowhere near me!) that may not be a problem. 24 gallons of fuel is not a problem unless you are using your engine to charge a battery system to drive your AC and/or refrigerator. The engine probably burns between 1 and 1.5 liters an hour at cruising (5 knots) speed. Water tankage of 40 gallons is decent, but your will really be limited to short showers, washing your dishes in salt water and rinsing with fresh, but you can safely keep water on deck in jugs to extend your range. Keep in mind that your 35 year old aluminum tank might not be suitable for potable (drinkable) water anyway. I certainly wouldn't drink out of mine!...which isn't a problem as it has holes in it...a common problem for S2's.

One potentially big red flag for me is the Volvo. Getting parts for old Volvo's can be nigh impossible. I would certainly adjust the price of any boat with a very old volvo to reflect the need to repower within 5-10 years. A repower, with professional installation can easily be 10-12K. DIY it would still be about 8K, but the configuration of the C makes the install a challenge. However, if the engine reflects a repower already, that in itself is some justification for a higher price. What model is it? If it is an MD17 it is likely original.

Find out the model then search online for the spares you would need on board to feel safe on a cruise for a week. Mine would include a starter, an alternator, a high pressure fuel lift pump, injectors, zincs, vee belts, fuel filters, oil filters and a few raw water impellers.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/marine/cruising_sailboat_engine_parts-7096-1.html

scottmcg · Jul 6, 2013

Re: My opinion

Would heartily agree with Bob M's comments. With radar, solar, etc. it may be able to justify the closer to top end price if they are all fairly up to date. If the electronics are more than 5-7 yrs old they may make the boat easier to sell but probably don't add tremendously to the value of the boat. They should all work though, so they could be updated on YOUR schedule as you get to know the boat. With refrigeration, you want to make sure you've got enough battery capacity to go a couple of days without running the engine. Although some love them, suspect alcohol stove could get old after a while. If you convert to propane, at least you can make sure that the install / tank placement is up to snuff. Would assume you will be in a breeze-less marina with shore power if adding aircon, hopefully not necessary if at anchor or on a mooring where you would need a generator. I've read of people converting window aircons to hatch use while in a marina (fairly cheap) but removing / storing it would slow down transitions to get out sailing. I also know of people who have converted some of the newer and smaller "split" home units to work in boats - still cheaper than marine units.
Would recommend 3 surveys:
1) standard hauled out survey which usually doesn't include engine, sails or rigging. Look especially for deck voids / rot in the balsa cored deck, and condition of rudder core. Also lots of rotted bulkheads where chainplates attach if chainplates have leaked in the past. The original fuel and hot water tanks have hopefully been replaced before or after they leak. Have them check out the electrical panel /wiring in order to judge quality of previous owner's work.
2) Engine survey - particularly if it is the original engine. At least you might be able to better estimate time until next repower in order to start saving. The mechanic might be also able to add to to Bob's comment on Volvo parts availability and pricing - I've heard horror stories...
3) Sails: Getting a sailmaker out for a sail or at least get them to the loft to be gone over. My 1977 9.2A came with North Sails originally. Although they were very good quality, if these sails are also the originals they likely at end of life. At some point, it would probably be a good idea to get a rigging inspection, particularly if you live someplace warm (more corrosion) and don't know when or if it was replaced.

S2s are great boats, very well built, likely to have aged better than most boats of the era as long as you check it out first. My 9.2a was a great boat for me as a relatively inexperienced sailor 20 years ago. The 9.2c should offer the same advantages: big enough to offer some comfort and stability, small enough to partially muscle it off a dock. With the roller furler it should keep you safely in the cockpit. Reef early and the handling is predictable and forgiving. Best of luck and enjoy!

Finally: Is it one with the bathtub?

Scup · Jul 6, 2013

toddorts said:
I've been getting quotes in the $400-$500 range. Sound about right? /quote]

Probably so...depends a bit on the market. A survey is wellworth it. Don't fall in love with the boat until AFTER the survey, though...

Mark Maulden · Jul 8, 2013

The engine, if original and Volvo, is most likely an MD-7 and not an MD-17. The 17 is a three cylinder. I have an MD-17 that I did new liners/pistons/rings/ head work. The best place for parts that I have come across is Marine Parts Express in Maine and all parts are available except for high press fuel lines that can be fabricated. You might call them see about parts availability for the MD-7. Being that an engine exchange in the "C" can be a challenge, the volvo can get new liners/pistons/rings/head work etc without removing the block so that might look somewhat attractive for you remembering no crank/camshaft work. On the other hand you should be able to get it out by disassembling it, but getting another (brand) in might be a chore. I had one of these in the early 80s and it was great boat. The only problem I had was the steering cable exited the pedestal and went to turning blocks screwed into blocks that were glassed to the hull under tension load. One of them let loose. (in the middle of Deception Pass). My personal opinion is $25K is a bit high though. The tub was phenomenal.

BobM · Jul 9, 2013

Sailor Surveyor

I suggest you make an effort to find a surveyor who is a sailor or at least question him or her closely about their experience. Someone on here had one who wrote the boat up as "keel bolts were not inspected as they were inaccessible" when five minutes of research online would have informed him that it doesn't have any. It is also pretty obvious just looking at it, both inside (ever see a bolted on keel with a four foot deep bilge?) and out (no "smile" and thick profile).

They absolutely MUST have a moisture meter to check the deck for water. Otherwise they are wasting your money, in my opinion.

sailcruiser · Jul 10, 2013

toddorts said:
Thanks! Anyone have a surveyor they would recommend in the Jacksonville, FL area?

I don't have any recommendations just be sure they know sailboats and check some references. I'd ask around the dock personally.
SC

Picflight · Aug 6, 2013

Congratulations, happy sailing and post pictures.

woodster · Aug 7, 2013

Congratulations,and welcome aboard.

regards

woody

patrscoe · Aug 16, 2013

Congrats! Good sailboat.