Thinking about keel work. First timer

[Rexxis]

Would ya look at that! My first post!

So, my question is, how far does one have to drop the keel before it fully clears the hull?

I ask BC I am currently putting bunks on my trailer and am considering having the boat ride high enough on the trailer that I would be able to drop the keel and remove it all while the boat is on the trailer. If this is doable, I plan on having an adjustable keel rest that would support the aft end of the keel when trailering.

I've got several ideas on how to make a sled that could be used on the trailer below the keel to make this process much simpler and safer.

Does anybody have a real number I can work with? Something like "about 6 inches” won't help me so much in this case.

Any ideas, advice or experiences are welcomed. Thanks.

 

[CaptDon01]

Years ago when we had our first C-22, I designed a trailer and had a welding shop turn it into reality. I had purchased 6 screw jacks that fit in the bottom and are used to adjust scaffolding. They have a square thread and are capable of lifting pretty good loads. The trailer had 6 2" thick wall pipes installed, three on each frame rail on the trailer. The screw jacks were installed up-side-down so the screw assembly was against the top of the pipes. I fabricated 6 pads from 2 X 6 pressure treated lumber and covered them with carpet. The boat was lifted and set on the bunks and they were adjusted to fit and support the hull. The stand pipes had been drilled and tapped to install a 1/4" bolt. So once the hull was sitting on the bunks, the mount was tightened, and the 1/4" bolt was tightened to keep the bunks from turning.

The keel would be lowered and the rear sat on a support on the trailer frame. The boat sat slightly higher than a normal swing keel trailer would have the boat sit, but I could perform all my bottom maintenance, including the removal of the keel by myself.

I had removable brackets to hold the keel vertical, and a small floor jack was fitted in a mount on the trailer to support the forward portion of the keel. After the keel hangers were removed, the keel winch in the boat and the floor jack were used to lower the keel unto a dolly, and the keel rolled out on a track in the center of the trailer and off the rear of the trailer.

With the bunks being adjustable, I could lower a couple at a time and finish the hull under that bunk. Once the bottom paint dried, I would raise it back up, and move onto the next set of bunks.

The trailer was set up with tandem wheels and towed wonderful. We didn't trailer that boat as much as we do our current C-22, but it was nice being able to perform all my bottom maintenance with the boat sitting on the trailer. Sure wish I had photos of the trailer, but that was almost 30 years ago, and who would've known I would still be sailing C-22's.

The boat still sits on this trailer, and the last I heard about her location, she was on the hard at Lake Carlisle in southern Illinois.

Attached is a photo of "Quality Time", 1980, #9405 One of the few photos I have of her. Man, she was my dream boat, and I'm still hooked on C-22's!

Don

 

[Rexxis]

Wow. This sounds exactly like what I'm trying to do. Except for the bunks. Man, I do wish you had photos!

Now you've got me pondering not using bunks because, like you said, I would be able to do bottom jobs right there on the trailer and do them safely. I have seen and heard abt a lot of sketchy setups to get under the bunks during a bottom job.. No thanks.

The trailer will have four uprights on each side, I'm assuming that is enough to safely lower one at a time.

I also have a tandem axle trailer.

So, I still need to know how much room I need under to keel to be able to fully clear the keel trunk.

CaptDon, do you recall, roughly, how much room there was between the bottom of the keel and your trailer?

 

[Rexxis]

Been trying to find screw type boat pads. Looks like these are the best bang for your buck.

http://www.scaffoldmart.com/boat-stand/topswithscrews.html

 

[CloudDiver]

I was going to get mine from the same place, but ended up finding used Brownell Stands on Craigslist. You'll probably have a harder time finding used ones in your neck of the woods, but if you get new ones you'll probably be able to sell them when your job is done to someone in your sailing club or to the club itself.

BTW, the second from smallest size (either Scaffoldmart or Brownell) are perfect for the C-22. Putting the pads on the front of the hull is fine, but the rear two will flex and damage the hull where it is pretty thin. In my build thread I think there is a pic of how I made a cheap curved bunk that follows the hull curve athwartships and spreads the load between the two rear pads.

Been trying to find screw type boat pads. Looks like these are the best bang for your buck.

http://www.scaffoldmart.com/boat-stand/topswithscrews.html

 

[watercolors II]

size does matter

If you look at the blog below by “piedpiperIII” titled “keel is back on” there is a photo of your keel hanging horizontally like it would under your hull as siting on the trailer. Looks like 1/2 the side dimension of your keel should be enough additional height to clear.

 

[Rexxis]

Thanks Watercolors! Looks like half the width of the keel would work well. My boat is one of the "new designs." Is that keel the same as mine? Don't earlier boats have a larger hump at the top?

CloudDiver, tell me more about this "thin" area at the rear of the boat. My trailer has four cross members so I have been thinking about using four supports per side so I could lower them, one at a time and do bottom work.

Do you think using pads like these would be a bad idea at the rear of the boat? If that's the case, then there is no point in messing w the screwpads at all and I would just go w bunks as initially planned. Where exactly is this thin area?

 

[CloudDiver]

The thin area of the aft part of the hull starts about 12 inches aft of where the keel tunnel ends back to about 12 inches from the transom. You'll notice that on the inside of your boat in that area there are no parts where any bulkheads or the liner is directly bonded to the outside hull = unsupported surface area.

So, my hull has been inverted for the last few months while I have been doing my blister repair/bottom job. On all areas of the hull from the bow aft to 1/3 from the stern I can walk on the hull with confidence, no flexing. On the area I mentioned above I tread lightly on hands and knees and if not careful I feel the hull flex under my weight... and I'm a thin guy. After I put the additional layer of 8.9 oz cloth on the hull that flex is virtually gone, but I'm not willing to test that theory by jumping up and down on it!

And my apologies, when you posted the link above I thought you were buying stands, not screw pads... Still, both products are a good price.

When I set up my bunks I calculated that I needed 16 inches of clearance; pull a string across the bunks or pads above where the keel will rest and drop a plumb bob. If you have 16 inches at that point it is enough to float the boat onto the pads and then release tension on the keel cable and it will drop and inch or two and rest on a pad or roller.

Thanks Watercolors! Looks like half the width of the keel would work well. My boat is one of the "new designs." Is that keel the same as mine? Don't earlier boats have a larger hump at the top?

CloudDiver, tell me more about this "thin" area at the rear of the boat. My trailer has four cross members so I have been thinking about using four supports per side so I could lower them, one at a time and do bottom work.

Do you think using pads like these would be a bad idea at the rear of the boat? If that's the case, then there is no point in messing w the screwpads at all and I would just go w bunks as initially planned. Where exactly is this thin area?

 

[CloudDiver]

BTW, bunks are easier and cheaper, but you won't have enough vertical clearance to remove the keel. I use 4 Brownell stands to get my hull off the trailer. The two rear stands can be set behind the trailer, then you have to use a winch or come-along attached to an overhead to lift the bow if you are indoors to lift the bow and pull the trailer free, then set the front stands. Outdoors you can use a cherry picker from the side to lift the bow... there are 100 ways to skin a cat.

You mentioned you have 4 cross members on your trailer, that would be 8 pads total... That is way over-kill. I think 3 on each side is your best bet. Depending on where you place them the forward and middle pads would support enough of the hull weight so there is not so much weight on the rear pads where the hull is thin. Also, by adding an 18 x 18 inch or even 24 x 24 inch pad of 1/2" marine plywood to top of the existing pads would help distribute the weight better. It could work, then you can adjust the screw pads as high as they go to remove or install the keel, then lower them for trailering.

 

[Rexxis]

Excellent info Cloud. Thanks.

Well, looks like I'm going w bunks as originally planned. Keeping the original three uprights per side. They each have huge all-thread and nuts below the pads allowing them to be adjusted abt a foot or so each. So yeah, down for trailering and I can extend them to remove the keel.

Now to setting and bending the bunks. I've got an idea of how I plan on doing it. If it doesn't work, I'm gonna need some more advice. Haha.

Thanks guys

 

[CloudDiver]

Just make your bunks 96 inches long. The rear rises 2 inches above the front, so just crank the rear higher, the 2 x 6 lumber will bend easily.

 

[Rexxis]

2 Inches? I've measured four different C22 trailers out here and the rear supports are averaging abt 6 inches taller than the middle supports.

 

[CloudDiver]

You're right, its probably more than 2 inches but I don't think it is 6. I have blocks made of two chunks of 2 x 6 screwed to the bottom of the bunk before it bolts to the vertical support. It gives me about 3.5 inches of rise. When the boat is on the bunks the curve is pretty good but it could stand to go up another 1/2 inch to make the curve a little steeper. The last 8 inches of the bunk is not making full contact with the hull.

I'll take some pictures of my bunks this afternoon, but I won't have the boat flipped back over and on the trailer again for few weeks.

2 Inches? I've measured four different C22 trailers out here and the rear supports are averaging abt 6 inches taller than the middle supports.

 

[Rexxis]

Ok. There are literally like 20 catalina trailers at my club. Some w boats on them, some not. So if ya don't feel like posting, no worries.