Think I Cooked My Batteries - Through Negligence

Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
All winter I have been thinking in the back of my mind "I need to check the water in my batteries." But never did. I would forget when I was down working on the boat. I had tools and parts piled up over the access to the batteries for the other projects I was working on. The excuses can go on. But I knew I needed to check them and never did.

Saturday we showed up at the boat and the wife went inside to clean and flush the water system while I worked on the exterior (installed the prop, zincs and line cutter, sanding the locations where the boat stands had originally been, start waxing). I didn't know until later that the battery monitor was reading below 11 volts. :doh::doh:

On Sunday I hooked up the charger (again forgetting to check the water) and proceeded to charge the batteries all day. They were reading 12.85 at the end of the day after I turned off the charger. So I thought I was OK.

Yesterday morning I went down to the marina for the launch and the batteries read 10.76 volts. Checked the water (FINALLY!) and one was low the other was OK. [Side note: I put my two 4Ds in Series as my primary bank and added a Group 27 as my reserve bank last year; this discussion is just on the primary group of 4Ds. On of the 4Ds is two years old the other is about 5 years old.] I filled up both batteries with DI water. One only took a small amount but the other eat up almost 2/3 of a gallon.

After filling the water I hooked up the charger and they seemed to be taking the charge fine. My plan was to charge them to full yesterday, equalize them later this week and then equalize again checking the fluids with my refractometer every hour or so next week. It doesn't appear they are taking the initial charge. So I wonder if I fried one or both of the batteries. I have a portable charger with diagnostics built in that I will try next.

Not very happy with myself. I planned to get new batteries when we start cruising next year but I was hoping to do this in the winter of 2015-2016 when we will be in Florida preparing for a jump to the Bahamas. And with the home sale pending, it looks like this will be something I will need to address very soon since my Bride won't be pleased with the salon being ripped up right after we move aboard full time.

Any suggestions on something else I would try?

FYI: When I get new batteries I will be going with 4 6 volt golf cart batteries instead of these ridiculous 4Ds.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
If you hooked up your bats in series you have created a 24 volt bank parallel will give you a 12 volt bank

Regards

Woody
 

CCHer

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Jul 7, 2010
230
Beneteau 37 Cranes Creek, VA
JK, I changed out the stock 4Ds for 2 pair of six volts when I owned my 310. I had to reconfigure the space a bit under the settee and fabricate a new hold down for them but it was well worth it. Best AH gain for the buck. Muscling those 4Ds out of the boat was a bear though as you probably know:)
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
JK, I changed out the stock 4Ds for 2 pair of six volts when I owned my 310. I had to reconfigure the space a bit under the settee and fabricate a new hold down for them but it was well worth it. Best AH gain for the buck. Muscling those 4Ds out of the boat was a bear though as you probably know:)
I looked at this last year as part of my cruising planning. I can fit 4 6v golf cart batteries in that area. Like you said, I will have to fabricate a new hold down system. I might even be able to move my start battery into the area and gain some space in the adjacent settee back.

I am looking at the Duracell ECG2 from Sam's Club based on MaineSail's recommendation. What did you go with?
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,814
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
2/3 gallon? That battery is dead, 'cuz the plates were exposed. We just had a similar topic to which Maine Sail contributed:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8005.0.html

Your plans to delay the purchase of new batteries is simply moved up. With proper care you should get many years out of new ones, so I wouldn't sweat it at all.

Now you know...
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,166
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
As Stu said, it's time to go battery shopping. Even if they take a charge, it's almost certain the actual capacity has been severely reduced. After you recharge and equalize them, do a load test but I'll bet we already know the answer.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,814
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You have to return your old batteries when you buy new to avoid the "core charge" anyway. When I did this, just yesterday, the vendor checked the old ones to confirm their condition, for free. Took all of fiteen minutes for three 130 ah 12V batteries. Simple step to confirm a diagnosis that we are sure is a dead one(s).
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
That's what I thought. But here is my dilemma, are both toast or just one? If both are toast, easy decision. If it's just one it get's a little harder.

I have a friend in the marine industry that gets me some stuff at cost. I can get the Interstate 4D for $85. So if only one battery is toast I can fix the problem for $85 and get new batteries in a few more years. But these 4D's kinda suck. They are not real deepcycle and they don't have great capacity. They have about 180 amp hours @ 20 hrs. while the Duracell's have 230. Plus I could likely fit the secondary battery in the same box too. So that would gain space in the settee. But what would I do with the old 4D?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,166
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
That's what I thought. But here is my dilemma, are both toast or just one? If both are toast, easy decision. If it's just one it get's a little harder.

D?
We can guess or you can find out definitively -your choice.

Recharge, equalize and load test each individually.
Guess -they are both toast, one more burned than the other. Why not find out for sure?
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,814
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Well, not really. It's always been said that mixing old and new batteries is not a good idea. Always.

It's always also been said that 4Ds do nothing well. A lousy compromise.

So, bite the bullet and get rid of those useless monsters. I know, easy for me to spend your $$, right? But think about it: I just did this myself yesterday, the link explained why.

It's worth it to do it right. Get over your "I'll buy new batteries right before i go to the bahamas" approach, and satisfy yourself now with new batteries. You can care for them properly, and also KNOW that you'll have good batteries for your trip. Plus, if anything does go wrong, even after you have bought new ones, you can get them replaced before you leave on the BIG trip. I'd sure feel more comfortable with a known piece of gear rather than doing a trip like that with brand new stuff.
 
Nov 7, 2012
678
1978 Catalina 30 Wilbur-by-the-Sea
Hard call on replacement. If you have the money you would do well to replace them as a set. I have 2 of differing age and that really does not help with balancing discharge and charging as they don't match.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Thanks everyone.

I am going to finish the testing I started before I move forward with the purchase but I think I will just upgrade now. In discussing it with my Bride and she raised the point that she would rather bite the bullet and do it now while we have jobs then when we are unemployed and poor. We were planning on it anyways. Just not for another 20 months or so.
 

CCHer

.
Jul 7, 2010
230
Beneteau 37 Cranes Creek, VA
[I am looking at the Duracell ECG2 from Sam's Club based on MaineSail's recommendation. What did you go with?]

I put in Interstates (which I see now on a recent post Maine Sail doesn't particularly like), recommended by our local golf cart dealer. He also had Trojans for a few $ more but said I'd get just as many cycles out of the Interstates. They were great-a big AH increase over the old ones-seemed like I could keep the fridge on forever and ran the AP under sail for long periods with confidence that I wouldn't run out of juice. Though only had them 2 years before selling the boat so not sure about the dealer's claim. I will go with 6 volts when the batteries in my new boats die.
 
Mar 10, 2012
29
Catalina 310 Hull#293 Erie, PA
In reading the thread posted by Stu, Mainesail asked if the battery charger was a Charles. Well my 4D batteries were cooked last summer, despite my adding distiller water regularly. And I have a Charles 5000P charger, the PO installed in 2011. Correlation? The batteries were installed in 2009. I do not know why the charger was replaced. The boat is a 2005.

I just bought 4 new Deka (215 ah @ 20) 6v to replace the 12v. Should I be concerned about the charger? I plan on adding the temperature wire to the charger next week. Any issue with the original 55 amp alternator charging the new banks? Thanks in advance for your views.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,814
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
1. In reading the thread posted by Stu, Mainesail asked if the battery charger was a Charles. Well my 4D batteries were cooked last summer, despite my adding distiller water regularly. And I have a Charles 5000P charger, the PO installed in 2011. Correlation?


2. I just bought 4 new Deka (215 ah @ 20) 6v to replace the 12v. Should I be concerned about the charger? I plan on adding the temperature wire to the charger next week.

3. Any issue with the original 55 amp alternator charging the new banks? Thanks in advance for your views.
1. In my 15 years with a C34 and our 25+ years as an Association, Charles chargers have always been questionable. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,605.0.html Please note the DATE on these posts.

2. Given everything Maine Sail has written, why would anyone want to expose their expensive batteries to this charger manufacturer?

3. No issue there. Internal or external regulator?
 
Mar 6, 2009
43
Catalina 310 Dunedin, Fl
Hi JK, I did the same last Wednesday. One deep cycle battery ran low on water and drained both deep cycle batteries. Fortunately it did not have time to destroy the second deep cycle. I have been using group 29's and now I have one group 29 (3.5 years old) and a new group 31. We found these two deep cycles are enough for two or three nights on the hook, then we go to a marina for refreshments (body and soul).
 

Tom J

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Sep 30, 2008
2,309
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Jesse, it's a good idea to take the time and install the 6v batteries now. This will give you a chance to manage your new house bank and learn its capabilities before you go on the big trip. I changed out my 4D's last summer. I wanted to go with the 6v's, but we were living aboard, and I couldn't take the time to fabricate a new setup, so we still have the clunky old 4D's. I'd like to see your installation this summer, if that is possible.
 
Oct 3, 2011
830
Anam Cara Catalina 310 Hull #155 155 Lake Erie/Catawba Island
Jesse, You do stimulate lots of conversation..first Anchors and Now batteries/chargers. When we went to the Chicago Boat show this year I spoke with battery guys-2 sets- and came to the conclusion from what they were saying that the 4D batteries were-given what you do or do not as in maintenance, that the AGM batteries were the right fit for some. I do not need batteries but am planning on when I do and I read and asked about the Blue top batteries and that was going to be my choice until I spoke with the battery guys. I am interested in what you end up with. We also have a Charles Charger that came with the boat. All seem at this point to be getting along. I have no idea as to how old the batteries are but will check once we get in the water.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Jesse, You do stimulate lots of conversation..first Anchors and Now batteries/chargers. When we went to the Chicago Boat show this year I spoke with battery guys-2 sets- and came to the conclusion from what they were saying that the 4D batteries were-given what you do or do not as in maintenance, that the AGM batteries were the right fit for some. I do not need batteries but am planning on when I do and I read and asked about the Blue top batteries and that was going to be my choice until I spoke with the battery guys. I am interested in what you end up with. We also have a Charles Charger that came with the boat. All seem at this point to be getting along. I have no idea as to how old the batteries are but will check once we get in the water.
Alan,

I strongly recommend you read Mainesail's piece on AGM batteries before you buy. Also, do a search for Morgan's Cloud. He has also written on the subject. I was thinking about AGM due to an alignment issue. But ended up with 6 volt golf carts. I'll try to put up a post tomorrow.

Fair winds,

Jesse