Thermoelectric Cooler

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RForst

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Jul 22, 2010
22
Hunter 34 Georgetown
Does anyone know anything about these units, aside from the fact they are very inexpensive? I suppose eventually I will convert my ice box but I am WAY over budget for this year and was looking for an interim solution.

Thanks for your help.

Rudy
 
Feb 10, 2004
4,096
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
I borrowed one from a friend to try. I was very disappointed. They suck a LOT of 12v power and the one I used would only keep things cold,it would not cool down a warm item in any reasonable time.


The power consumption is not an issue in an operating car, but on a sailboat....

The one I used was a solid state design, but some of the more expense ones have an actual compressor. But those are up in the $400 range.
YMMV.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,050
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
The Peltier Effect (solid state coolers) are limited to only about 40F below ambient (in the inexpensive forms) so if the air around the rejection plates is around 80F, the inside will not go below 40F.. With 100F surrounding the box, as we get around here, 60F is all ya get and that is not cold enough. They are 5-10% efficient compared to about 50% in a compression cycle refridgerator..
 

RForst

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Jul 22, 2010
22
Hunter 34 Georgetown
Thanks guys, it rarely gets to 100 here...but 90s are not uncommon....so I suppose I will just wait and do it right the first time.

Thanks for your input!
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Thermoelectics...

I've been using a Coleman thermoelectric cooler for about ten years now to transport food to the boat and keeping it cold while aboard. As pointed out, it does use power, about 5 amps on 12 v. dc, but does come with a step-down transformer for shore power conversion. Using plastic containers and careful packing, it holds quite a bit of food.

It also does hit the 40 degree drop over ambient that Claude pointed out, which works well in port with the AC running in the heat of summer (around 75-80 inside the boat). Under way under power we keep it plugged into the 12 v. socket. We kill the 12 v. power to the socket when under sail.

The cooler will keep food cold if you don't open it much until you get back under power or reach a shore power location. Using a digital thermometer probe, it's only lost about a degree an hour. Cold beverages are kept in a conventional cooler with ice to minimize cold loss from the cooler for thirsty Capt'n and crew.

For a $90 investment from Wallyworld, it has been a huge benefit both for the boat and for traveling by car as well.
 
May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
Check out a 120V compressor driven, 1.7 cf dorm refrigerator. They can run on shorepower and if you keep the door closed will maintain things fairly cool for approximately 5 hours when underway. They can also be operated with an inverter with a 12V power consumption of approx. 4 amp/hour. The inverter needs to be at least of 1000 watts to allow for starting up the compressor.
 
Jul 1, 2004
567
Hunter 40 St. Petersburg
Hey Benny.

I've got one of those. I'll be giving it away in a few years. It's very inefficient.

We're going to put an Engel portable freezer in it's place. It's a completely different technology. Not thermoelectric.

http://www.branddnainc.com/engel/swing.html

A smaller one may still over Rudy's budget. But, it would provide added flexibility even for years after his icebox has been upgraded.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Engel-MT35F-U1-...rigerators&hash=item53e2e2f7fc#ht_3908wt_1001

I know. They're spendy. But dang.
 

Ivan

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May 17, 2004
234
Hunter 356 Solomons MD
Whatever you eventually decide to buy or do, you should be aware of the real efficiency of cooling machines, which cannot ever even approach the 50% that was mentioned by Kloudie. While thermoelectric coolers have the advantage of no moving parts to wear out, their efficiency is really less than 10%. Coolers using a compressor, regardless of the type, have a theoretical efficiency limit of 33% since they all are subject to the limitations of the Carnot Cycle--a result of the laws of thermodynamics that apply to all things, and a feature of all machines that use expansion and condensation of fluids to cool (or heat), which it is physically impossible to exceed. Due to friction and inefficiencies in mechanical parts compressor-type coolers rarely reach over 20% efficiency in practice--including the touted "different technology" units mentioned by Rick, which by clever design may add a few percentage points in trade for many dollars.

Those are the cruel facts of refrigerator life, and the laws of thermodynamics cannot be repealed. So when all is said and done the thermoelectric coolers suffer from not being able to reach lower temperatures, and having at most half of the efficiency of mechanical compressors. They do have the advantage of being silent and probably having longer life, and being cheaper.

You pays your money and you takes yer choice.
 
Jul 1, 2004
567
Hunter 40 St. Petersburg
Thanks Ivan.

So you're saying that all refrigerators suck. And that the expensive ones suck less and the cheap ones suck more.

My question is, if they're all the same (relatively inefficient) and there isn't an alternative, why exactly does Rudy need to "be aware" of this?

I confess I'm not conversant in the limitations of the Carnot Cycle. I pretty much just want to know which unit will make the ice-cube for my sundowner using the fewest amps.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Rick...

the ice machine at the ice house that makes the bag ice we sell at my marina...:dance:
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,050
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
As our refrigerator leaked freon one day.. my ex wife looked in there and said "Ya know, you can look at ice and tell if it is working!" .. I still have not fixed the syatem and use ice regularly ! LOL
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Anybody know of a propane or CNG powered reefer. I know they have them in RVs. Have never seen them in boats though.
 

KD3PC

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Sep 25, 2008
1,069
boatless rainbow Callao, VA
The LPG/CNG fridges use an open flame (as do the RVs) to fire off the process....so other than Gemini Cats....no one wants an open flame on their boat...nor would an insurance company ...too much risk...
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Hey Rick...

No, they don't, but we've managed to con a powerboat friend (former sailor) to bring us some on several occasions with the promise of not making fun of his boat handling...:doh:
 
Jul 1, 2004
567
Hunter 40 St. Petersburg
Good job

No, they don't, but we've managed to con a powerboat friend (former sailor) to bring us some on several occasions with the promise of not making fun of his boat handling...:doh:
Since he used to sail and he shows up with ice we'll cut him some slack. :)
 
May 28, 2009
764
Hunter 376 Pensacola, FL
Propane Refrigerators

need to be kept level to operate properly, which is why you never see them on monohulls. Plus they need to have a vented exhaust, since they use combustion to cool. So look at your ice box or wherever you think you'd put it and try to figure out where you'd put the chimney.
 

capejt

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May 17, 2004
276
Hunter 33_77-83 New London, CT
And then there's the argument my wife uses whenever I try to talk her into letting me spend the $ for a Norcold conversion kit...... "You can buy an awful lot of ice for that kind of money!"
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
PSYOPing the first mate

Well you could let her carry the ice for a season and see how "cheap" she thinks ice is then. For those who have never done it or have forgotten (because you have a reefer now) ice is very heavy, very cold and tends to leak and drip when you take it out of the storage freezer and drag it to the boat.
If you can schedule all the dock buggies to be "elsewhere" when she goes to pick up ice you will get a faster change in attitude.
You can also throw some reefer drain water (with milk in it of course) to the bilge and blame it on "it is because we use ice and it softens the paper cartons" quickly followed by "If we had a real reefer everything would stay dry and it would not do that"
 
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