I'm sure I caught some interest with that title! Actually, I'm confounded by an issue of standing water in my '81 Catalina 30's bilge, and I'd be interested in some speculation about where it's coming from. I think this is a good question not only for C30 owners but owners at large, since I think there's some high school physics involved here (hey, I was a social sciences major!) Here's the short story: my C30's bilge is about 2' below the waterline (I know this from measuring the deck-to-water length from on deck -- about 3 1/2' -- and the deck-to-bilge length in the cabin -- about 5 1/2'). I routinely have about 1/2" or so of standing water in the bilge. I have drained the bilge manually -- without using the on-board bilge pumps (used sponges, etc.) -- and within about 2 days I'm back up to the 1/2" level. Thing is, it never gets any deeper in the bilge. I don't have pump meters but the auto pump is set for about 3" of water, and I've left it turned off as long as a week and the water level never rises. Since I manually drained the bilge without use of the on-board pumps, I don't think it's drain-back from the bilge pump hoses. For the very technically oriented among C30 owners, I have a minor "Catalina smile" on the keel; I can't judge the condition of the plywood keel stub as it's completely glassed in. No rust on the stainless steel keel bolts. What really has me stumped is the fact that the depth never goes beyond 1/2", even though the bilge is far below the waterline. My high school physics (admittedly thin) says the water should keep on rising to its own level, ultimately sinking the boat. I can't figure out why that's not happening -- not that I'm compaining! Any thoughts are appreciated. I've checked all the through hulls and with the exception of the galley sink seacock I see no signs of leakage; the galley leak is very minor, and even if it's the source still wouldn't explain why she doesn't fill up and submerge on me. Hopefully this will lead to some lively debate! Thanks in advance! Mike Turner S/V Amity Long Beach
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Mark Johnson
Did you taste it?
Is it fresh water or salt water? If it's fresh, it could be coming down the mast through the mast head or through the mast boot. My C42 had the same problem, when it rained you could see the water run down the extrustions in the mast to the mast foot. Now, if it's salty then it's coming in from a thru hull or the stuffing box for the shaft. Check it out and get back to us.
Is it fresh water or salt water? If it's fresh, it could be coming down the mast through the mast head or through the mast boot. My C42 had the same problem, when it rained you could see the water run down the extrustions in the mast to the mast foot. Now, if it's salty then it's coming in from a thru hull or the stuffing box for the shaft. Check it out and get back to us.
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Tom
Interesting problem...
... because I have that also. I have an '82 C30. Like you, a constant 1/2 inch of water. I have a dripless shaft seal, & I've observed no water coming from there. I've checked the "rainwater down the mast" theory. No water comes down there, that path is dry as a bone. I have wheel steering, but I keep the rudder "elbow" for the emergency tiller covered with a winch cover. That path is dry. I spent some time in the quarterberth, looking at the cockpit drain hoses through the aft access panel under the cockpit during a storm last weekend, and they're dry and not leaking. And no leak from the rudder tube stuffing box. No deck hardware leak. I've searched and searched during the rainy winter. No leaks from the anchor locker. No leaks from any of the thru-hulls nor any valve. No leaks in the pressure fresh water system. I've checked the water heater, the fittings, and can maintain water pressure in the hot & cold sides of the system after the pump is shut down for a very long time. There's is one thing I dread doing next, but doing it may help to determine the source, or what's not a source - that is to "taste the bilge water". Salty or fresh, that is the next question.
... because I have that also. I have an '82 C30. Like you, a constant 1/2 inch of water. I have a dripless shaft seal, & I've observed no water coming from there. I've checked the "rainwater down the mast" theory. No water comes down there, that path is dry as a bone. I have wheel steering, but I keep the rudder "elbow" for the emergency tiller covered with a winch cover. That path is dry. I spent some time in the quarterberth, looking at the cockpit drain hoses through the aft access panel under the cockpit during a storm last weekend, and they're dry and not leaking. And no leak from the rudder tube stuffing box. No deck hardware leak. I've searched and searched during the rainy winter. No leaks from the anchor locker. No leaks from any of the thru-hulls nor any valve. No leaks in the pressure fresh water system. I've checked the water heater, the fittings, and can maintain water pressure in the hot & cold sides of the system after the pump is shut down for a very long time. There's is one thing I dread doing next, but doing it may help to determine the source, or what's not a source - that is to "taste the bilge water". Salty or fresh, that is the next question.
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Larry
Moisture in my bilge may be condensation.
My craft has been on trailer and still gets some water. This morning the outside temp. heated up rather quickly. Looking at the hull, from the outside, I could see the outline of the cabin from the outside. The moisture was condensing on the hull since the temp. "locked in" the cabin couldn't change as much as the outside temp. was. Night/Day Day/Night Also, the foam core (that keeps my craft from sinking by locking in air) may also take more time to adjust to temp. changes. And thus, moisture is produced. (Distilled water/no salt.) I could be wrong, this is not "gospel" ...only a guess.
My craft has been on trailer and still gets some water. This morning the outside temp. heated up rather quickly. Looking at the hull, from the outside, I could see the outline of the cabin from the outside. The moisture was condensing on the hull since the temp. "locked in" the cabin couldn't change as much as the outside temp. was. Night/Day Day/Night Also, the foam core (that keeps my craft from sinking by locking in air) may also take more time to adjust to temp. changes. And thus, moisture is produced. (Distilled water/no salt.) I could be wrong, this is not "gospel" ...only a guess.
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Mike Turner
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Dave
Taste test
I don't buy this taste test for bilge water...not just the fact it is unsanitary but unless you know the concentration of salt you can't tell what it is. if it is a 50/50 mix you will call it salt water and be wrong about 50% of the source. Residual salt in the bilge will make all water a little salty. I prefer advice I've read here before. Make a clay or other material dam around the bilge and along the holes that let the water drain into the bilge, where water is accumulating you can follow back to the source. If the bilge is still filling then it is the keel bolts allowing water to leak across the sealant at the keel hull joint.
I don't buy this taste test for bilge water...not just the fact it is unsanitary but unless you know the concentration of salt you can't tell what it is. if it is a 50/50 mix you will call it salt water and be wrong about 50% of the source. Residual salt in the bilge will make all water a little salty. I prefer advice I've read here before. Make a clay or other material dam around the bilge and along the holes that let the water drain into the bilge, where water is accumulating you can follow back to the source. If the bilge is still filling then it is the keel bolts allowing water to leak across the sealant at the keel hull joint.
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Don
Next step
Now that you know it's sea water, think of the places it could be coming from and isolate sections of the bildge. Not familiar with your boats construction, but if there are compartments with conecting drains, temporaraly block them. The reason for the 1/2 inch could be there is a large compartment of the bilge that is not accessable and the water transfers slowly. How the water got there in the first place is still a question. If it is salty, the list of possibilities is not that long. Most have already been mentioned. What about your engine? It is cooled by sea water...yes? or at least an exchanger. There is probably a pan under the engine (to catch oil) but perhaps cooling hoses? fittings? strainer? I gather the water will come in while the boat is left alone and the engine does not have to be run? I've heard of folks cleaning and drying everything and then sprinkling talc powder to show a trail. Good luck, Don Bodemann
Now that you know it's sea water, think of the places it could be coming from and isolate sections of the bildge. Not familiar with your boats construction, but if there are compartments with conecting drains, temporaraly block them. The reason for the 1/2 inch could be there is a large compartment of the bilge that is not accessable and the water transfers slowly. How the water got there in the first place is still a question. If it is salty, the list of possibilities is not that long. Most have already been mentioned. What about your engine? It is cooled by sea water...yes? or at least an exchanger. There is probably a pan under the engine (to catch oil) but perhaps cooling hoses? fittings? strainer? I gather the water will come in while the boat is left alone and the engine does not have to be run? I've heard of folks cleaning and drying everything and then sprinkling talc powder to show a trail. Good luck, Don Bodemann
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Brian Ranniger
Sink seacock
Just a thought, but you should replace the sink thru-hull. I got a C-30 recently which had the same problem, minor leaking. About a month ago, a week before the scheduled haul-out, the thing gave out. It was flooding about a gallon a minute. The culprit was the glassed in pipe. It was totally corroded at the base of the valve. I just drilled around it with a 1" hole saw, ground down the inside "nipple" of glass and installed a real thru-hull. Now I can sleep at night.
Just a thought, but you should replace the sink thru-hull. I got a C-30 recently which had the same problem, minor leaking. About a month ago, a week before the scheduled haul-out, the thing gave out. It was flooding about a gallon a minute. The culprit was the glassed in pipe. It was totally corroded at the base of the valve. I just drilled around it with a 1" hole saw, ground down the inside "nipple" of glass and installed a real thru-hull. Now I can sleep at night.
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Dave
Catalina through hulls
Catalina should be banned from the oceans for the cheap gate valves they put in their boats as "seacocks." My 25 had nothing more than the equivalent of the valve you use on a hose on your house. This thing rusted and I should have replaced it but never did before I sold the boat. How can one of the premiere boat building companies left in business continue such unprofessional conduct is beyond me. I guess the few bucks saved is more important to people than their safety.
Catalina should be banned from the oceans for the cheap gate valves they put in their boats as "seacocks." My 25 had nothing more than the equivalent of the valve you use on a hose on your house. This thing rusted and I should have replaced it but never did before I sold the boat. How can one of the premiere boat building companies left in business continue such unprofessional conduct is beyond me. I guess the few bucks saved is more important to people than their safety.
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Jim Ewing
Auto pump?
Mike, You said you turned off the auto bilge pump. How? On my boat the auto bilge pump is fused into the panel and bypasses the DC Main switch. Maybe the pump is still on? Try weighting down the float switch instead and then checking after a few hours. It may be that the 1/2" is the unpumpable residue and your pump is able to keep up with the leak. Good luck and post when you have it figured out. Leak hunting is always good to hear about. Jim "Prospect"
Mike, You said you turned off the auto bilge pump. How? On my boat the auto bilge pump is fused into the panel and bypasses the DC Main switch. Maybe the pump is still on? Try weighting down the float switch instead and then checking after a few hours. It may be that the 1/2" is the unpumpable residue and your pump is able to keep up with the leak. Good luck and post when you have it figured out. Leak hunting is always good to hear about. Jim "Prospect"
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Mike Turner
Still Hunting
Thanks to all for your input. I agree about the glassed-in fittings -- I plan to replace the old glassed-in nipples; one of the prior owners at least replaced the gate valves with ball valves but it's still not a true seacock. The sink leak is in the same place as those mentioned. As to the auto pump it's switched on my electric panel -- manual, auto and off. But I still have suspected the 1/2" is unpumpable residue. I'll post what I ultimately find out! Mike Turner S/V Amity
Thanks to all for your input. I agree about the glassed-in fittings -- I plan to replace the old glassed-in nipples; one of the prior owners at least replaced the gate valves with ball valves but it's still not a true seacock. The sink leak is in the same place as those mentioned. As to the auto pump it's switched on my electric panel -- manual, auto and off. But I still have suspected the 1/2" is unpumpable residue. I'll post what I ultimately find out! Mike Turner S/V Amity
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