We looked, found and made an offer on the next boat of our dreams, the survey has been completed. A few problems showed up - what are the options open to us to resolve these issues. Nothing is major - we still want the boat - the next step is ????? - thanks
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Anything the surveyor noted as "required"
or as a "condition for recomendation" and anything that makes a boat "unseaworthy" today is open to negotiation in my mind. Would you take the boat out for a couple day journey right now ? In most cases they want to sell the boat as much or more than you want to buy it, not all but almost all. Usually you don't try for maintenance type stuff, if it needs bottom paint and you knew it was last painted a long time ago you should have expected it. If you find half a dozen fist sized blisters on a new painted boat that's something you should be compensated for maybe.
or as a "condition for recomendation" and anything that makes a boat "unseaworthy" today is open to negotiation in my mind. Would you take the boat out for a couple day journey right now ? In most cases they want to sell the boat as much or more than you want to buy it, not all but almost all. Usually you don't try for maintenance type stuff, if it needs bottom paint and you knew it was last painted a long time ago you should have expected it. If you find half a dozen fist sized blisters on a new painted boat that's something you should be compensated for maybe.
Now the negotiations begin...
What do you want the seller to correct as a condition of sale, and what (if anything) are you willing to do yourself provided the seller reduces the price enough to compensate you for it. You're in the catbird's seat now...'cuz Ted's right--the seller wants to sell the boat at least as badly--if not more--than you want to buy it...so be tough--ask for everything to be corrected. Worst case, he'll counter with a partial list, reduced price or both...best case he'll agree to fix everything. Whatever he agrees to fix, make sure to specify that it's fixed to your surveyor's satisfaction. If you have a good one, he'll know the difference between a "spit and baling wire" fix and a real fix.
What do you want the seller to correct as a condition of sale, and what (if anything) are you willing to do yourself provided the seller reduces the price enough to compensate you for it. You're in the catbird's seat now...'cuz Ted's right--the seller wants to sell the boat at least as badly--if not more--than you want to buy it...so be tough--ask for everything to be corrected. Worst case, he'll counter with a partial list, reduced price or both...best case he'll agree to fix everything. Whatever he agrees to fix, make sure to specify that it's fixed to your surveyor's satisfaction. If you have a good one, he'll know the difference between a "spit and baling wire" fix and a real fix.
Arrange financing
My idea is that your haggle quotient is stronger if you either have cash or "pre-approved" financing. This also lets you know where you stand on the boat because some advertised rates or terms may not be available for older boats. Call your bank or a reputable finance company (I recommend Scott Financial) to see what terms are generally available for your dreamboat and get pre-approved. Also, this will let you know what "other cost" you may face with the boat such as documentation, a 2nd "out of water" survey, etc.
My idea is that your haggle quotient is stronger if you either have cash or "pre-approved" financing. This also lets you know where you stand on the boat because some advertised rates or terms may not be available for older boats. Call your bank or a reputable finance company (I recommend Scott Financial) to see what terms are generally available for your dreamboat and get pre-approved. Also, this will let you know what "other cost" you may face with the boat such as documentation, a 2nd "out of water" survey, etc.
Consider the boat not accepted . . .
Lots of people make a mistake at this point of the process - they 'accept' the boat. If the issues are ones that you want fixed, then you should not accept the boat (put it in writing). You will be entitled to get your deposit back at this point. If the seller is willing to remedy the issues, then you may decide to go forth with the transaction, but only once the issues have been resolved and re-inspected by your surveyor. There are often posts on this site, and others, where a buyer has taken it on good faith that the issues will be fixed, and usually they are not. So, consider the deal to be off until they are fixed. The next step is a negotiation process where the buyer and seller agree on a 'remedy' and time-frame.
Lots of people make a mistake at this point of the process - they 'accept' the boat. If the issues are ones that you want fixed, then you should not accept the boat (put it in writing). You will be entitled to get your deposit back at this point. If the seller is willing to remedy the issues, then you may decide to go forth with the transaction, but only once the issues have been resolved and re-inspected by your surveyor. There are often posts on this site, and others, where a buyer has taken it on good faith that the issues will be fixed, and usually they are not. So, consider the deal to be off until they are fixed. The next step is a negotiation process where the buyer and seller agree on a 'remedy' and time-frame.
minor problems
depending on what the problems are should determine your next step. You can accept as is or work out a repair paid for by the owner or a cash consession. Now this is where it get interesting because the owner has the option to say no deal also and refund your money and walk away also. It is a supply and demand thing. How hot is the boat and how hot is the market for it ? Are there other buyer waiting and are you willing to lose what the survey cost you ? The art of the deal comes into play now. Let me suggest you do not haggle over the "little" stuff but any "needed" repair should be paid for by the current owner not you. You info is vague when you say nothing major was found. It would be more helpful if we knew what the boat was and appx sale price and appx cost of repairing any problems, If you feel you got a good deal after the problems are worked out buy the boat if you feel the needed repair cost will cause you to overpay for the boat would determine what I would do next. Good Luck !
depending on what the problems are should determine your next step. You can accept as is or work out a repair paid for by the owner or a cash consession. Now this is where it get interesting because the owner has the option to say no deal also and refund your money and walk away also. It is a supply and demand thing. How hot is the boat and how hot is the market for it ? Are there other buyer waiting and are you willing to lose what the survey cost you ? The art of the deal comes into play now. Let me suggest you do not haggle over the "little" stuff but any "needed" repair should be paid for by the current owner not you. You info is vague when you say nothing major was found. It would be more helpful if we knew what the boat was and appx sale price and appx cost of repairing any problems, If you feel you got a good deal after the problems are worked out buy the boat if you feel the needed repair cost will cause you to overpay for the boat would determine what I would do next. Good Luck !
My boat purchase
Hello, Last year I was looking to move up from a 22' boat to something in the 28-32 range. I spend about 3 months looking for something in nice condition and in my price range (that was the key). Eventually I found a boat and made an offer on it. My offer was accepted, so I scheduled the survey. Of course, my offer was contingent on the boat 'passing' the survery. My offer was very low, and the broker made it clear to me that the owner was not open to any additional negotiations. I made it clear the broker that I accepted that, and the purpose of the survey was to make sure there was nothing grossly wrong with the boat, like wet decks, damaged motor or transmission, rotted bulkheads, etc. The survey showed an overall solid boat, but did list a number of deficiencies, such as soft fuel line, missing hose clamps, old flares, undercharged fire extinguishers, defective head, etc. At that point I could have tried to make the owner pay for some repairs, or tried to negotiate a lower price. However, the broker was clear that the owner was unwilling to move on price at all. Since the boat was fine to me, I obtained insurance, paid for her, and sailed her home. Given the time and cost of having a survey performed, I think you are taking a significant risk if you plan on using the survey results as a negotiation ploy. If and when I sell my boat, I would price her fairly, and not be willing at all to negotiate on small survey findings. Barry
Hello, Last year I was looking to move up from a 22' boat to something in the 28-32 range. I spend about 3 months looking for something in nice condition and in my price range (that was the key). Eventually I found a boat and made an offer on it. My offer was accepted, so I scheduled the survey. Of course, my offer was contingent on the boat 'passing' the survery. My offer was very low, and the broker made it clear to me that the owner was not open to any additional negotiations. I made it clear the broker that I accepted that, and the purpose of the survey was to make sure there was nothing grossly wrong with the boat, like wet decks, damaged motor or transmission, rotted bulkheads, etc. The survey showed an overall solid boat, but did list a number of deficiencies, such as soft fuel line, missing hose clamps, old flares, undercharged fire extinguishers, defective head, etc. At that point I could have tried to make the owner pay for some repairs, or tried to negotiate a lower price. However, the broker was clear that the owner was unwilling to move on price at all. Since the boat was fine to me, I obtained insurance, paid for her, and sailed her home. Given the time and cost of having a survey performed, I think you are taking a significant risk if you plan on using the survey results as a negotiation ploy. If and when I sell my boat, I would price her fairly, and not be willing at all to negotiate on small survey findings. Barry
Get price reduction not fix
Seems better for you to ask for price reduction and you do repairs, than getting in potential dispute down the road as to whether the seller made the required repairs and did them satisfactorily. If extent of repair is not known, meaning something needs to be investigated and repaired, then my advise doesn't apply.My buyer's survey said rudder delam. Yard estimated $1,500 repair. I didn't want the seller "supervising" the repair, so I negociated a price reduction and took the boat "as is" and then had work done when I was the owner.
Seems better for you to ask for price reduction and you do repairs, than getting in potential dispute down the road as to whether the seller made the required repairs and did them satisfactorily. If extent of repair is not known, meaning something needs to be investigated and repaired, then my advise doesn't apply.My buyer's survey said rudder delam. Yard estimated $1,500 repair. I didn't want the seller "supervising" the repair, so I negociated a price reduction and took the boat "as is" and then had work done when I was the owner.
Price vs. condition
This is the point where it make a real difference whether you have a good broker who will work to bring you and the seller together on a fair conclusion - or just a "salesman" in boat shoes. A lot depends on where you are with respect to price. Be sure you are well informed about recent sales prices for your model (ask your broker or surveyor for the listing of recent sales from Soldboats.com if you don't already have it) However, I haven't found a boat that is perfect yet - even a new one I surveyed. If your agreed sales price is low (good) and the items are minor and common issues, then you have a deal. If the items are costly or things one might not have expected, or if you agreed to pay "top dollar", then you need to negotiate either a fix or lower price. If the fix is straightforward then a lower price adjustment is appropriate. If the problem is not completely defined (some can't be without further investigation) then action to fix or at least define the problem should be done by the seller (in my opinion).
This is the point where it make a real difference whether you have a good broker who will work to bring you and the seller together on a fair conclusion - or just a "salesman" in boat shoes. A lot depends on where you are with respect to price. Be sure you are well informed about recent sales prices for your model (ask your broker or surveyor for the listing of recent sales from Soldboats.com if you don't already have it) However, I haven't found a boat that is perfect yet - even a new one I surveyed. If your agreed sales price is low (good) and the items are minor and common issues, then you have a deal. If the items are costly or things one might not have expected, or if you agreed to pay "top dollar", then you need to negotiate either a fix or lower price. If the fix is straightforward then a lower price adjustment is appropriate. If the problem is not completely defined (some can't be without further investigation) then action to fix or at least define the problem should be done by the seller (in my opinion).
FrankR, IMHO the sale price and repairs...
are separate issues. When we purchased our current boat we paid a deposit, negotiated a sell price, signed the Sales Agreement with surveyor report contingencies, then paid to haul the boat and have it surveyed. The surveyor's report pointed out several mostly minor, but a few integrity issues. While the boat was still on the hard I insisted on the PO paying for the replacement by yard personnel of three defective through hull valves. The PO also paid for the repair of a defective heat pump by a certified technician. As far as the other minor stuff, such as expired fire extinguishers, bottom paint, prop shaft zincs, etc., I took care of those. The PO tried to get me to split the costs to replace the through hull valves, but I stood firm and the sale went through. Terry
are separate issues. When we purchased our current boat we paid a deposit, negotiated a sell price, signed the Sales Agreement with surveyor report contingencies, then paid to haul the boat and have it surveyed. The surveyor's report pointed out several mostly minor, but a few integrity issues. While the boat was still on the hard I insisted on the PO paying for the replacement by yard personnel of three defective through hull valves. The PO also paid for the repair of a defective heat pump by a certified technician. As far as the other minor stuff, such as expired fire extinguishers, bottom paint, prop shaft zincs, etc., I took care of those. The PO tried to get me to split the costs to replace the through hull valves, but I stood firm and the sale went through. Terry
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