Group As the wife & I are planning to head away for an extended cruise (east coast & south) in a few years, the question we keep coming up with (again & again) is..."will our 361 be the right boat to do a trip like that with". This got me thinking...what boat (Beneteau of course) would be "The Best" ?? To my mind, if Beneteau took the 411, & re-configured the interior into a bigger version of the 361, it would be about as good as a boat could be. A Fast hull, 5ft draft, dual anchor rollers, (for anchoring Bahamian moor style) no worries about mast height & ICW bridges, & (if you get the right one) a big Yanmar 56hp engine. Here's the problems...as I see them anyway : The helm seat pokes up your butt, (it's not flat) the nav station is too small & faces backwards, the walking area on deck narrows in by the time you get to cockpit way too much, the galley is too small, there is no seperate shower stall in either head. So to all you 411 owners I ask...how do you like the boat & do the things that I've identified bother you about the boat. How would you (or have you) address(ed) the items that you don't like about the boat ? And if you were a 361 owner would YOU wait for the next round of Beneteau models before you took the economic plunge ?? We are just sitting on the fence right now, waiting to see what's next from Beneteau...a B-44 perhaps ?? Don't get me wrong, we love the 361, it's just that we can see where we'll want a bigger 2 cabin boat for 2-3 years away cruising. Cheers, Paul. www.winpipe.ca
The "perfect" Beneteau...
- Thread starter Paul Ouellette
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Tradeoffs
Paul, I originally was searching for a >38 B. Yes a few more ft would give you perhaps a better ride off shore and the extra stowage space would be nice to have. In addition to the advantages you mentioned, what convinced me to get the 361 was the ease by which it can be sailed shorthanded. Also as boats get bigger, you need to start adding electric winches and extra stuff that makes them harder to maintain. Just think how jealous your bib boat owning neighbors get as you maneuver in close quarters with ease, can get into a shallow bay, or can bypass the cape Hatteras through the ICW. Without a doubt there are some tradeoffs when you move into a large boat.
Paul, I originally was searching for a >38 B. Yes a few more ft would give you perhaps a better ride off shore and the extra stowage space would be nice to have. In addition to the advantages you mentioned, what convinced me to get the 361 was the ease by which it can be sailed shorthanded. Also as boats get bigger, you need to start adding electric winches and extra stuff that makes them harder to maintain. Just think how jealous your bib boat owning neighbors get as you maneuver in close quarters with ease, can get into a shallow bay, or can bypass the cape Hatteras through the ICW. Without a doubt there are some tradeoffs when you move into a large boat.
Tradeoffs or Tradeups ??
Jose ; I'm not splitting off from loving the 361, We are just considering all the options, while we're still years ahead. The 411LE's are one heck of a boat, however, for all the items I've mentioned, it's like having a great girlfriend, who's fantastic in all the ways that are "very important" to the "superficial man" ;D and yet she lithpths, & walks with a limp. I just don't know where their designers are thinking these days... For example, just try to streach out on the portside berth in the 473 !!! You Can't !!! Perhaps what Beneteau needs is a group of us who are very dedicated to the brand to have some imput. I'd welcome the opportunity. Perhaps then we'd see a 411LE-Special Edition...forward facing Nav Station, etc... Cheers, Paul. www.winpipe.ca
Jose ; I'm not splitting off from loving the 361, We are just considering all the options, while we're still years ahead. The 411LE's are one heck of a boat, however, for all the items I've mentioned, it's like having a great girlfriend, who's fantastic in all the ways that are "very important" to the "superficial man" ;D and yet she lithpths, & walks with a limp. I just don't know where their designers are thinking these days... For example, just try to streach out on the portside berth in the 473 !!! You Can't !!! Perhaps what Beneteau needs is a group of us who are very dedicated to the brand to have some imput. I'd welcome the opportunity. Perhaps then we'd see a 411LE-Special Edition...forward facing Nav Station, etc... Cheers, Paul. www.winpipe.ca
what is next.
Paul, I am going through the same motions as you are. As I look down the road thinking of cruising I go back and forth between keeping Angels' Grace or upgrading to a larger boat. One of the considerations I have is if the 361 becomes my cruising boat and I set the boat up as such will I get my return on investment. Probably not since most people see the boat as a coastal cruiserand don't want or need all the "extras" She would probably be difficult to sell. If I go to a larger one and to the same I would probably get some of my money back I am going to look at a 2001 Beneteau 44CC next week. Again like Jose says there are trade-off. I love my current boat- and I go back and forth. ease of handling, great for two people - but what about when the kids and families come onboard on and on and on- Anyway good luck Charlie
Paul, I am going through the same motions as you are. As I look down the road thinking of cruising I go back and forth between keeping Angels' Grace or upgrading to a larger boat. One of the considerations I have is if the 361 becomes my cruising boat and I set the boat up as such will I get my return on investment. Probably not since most people see the boat as a coastal cruiserand don't want or need all the "extras" She would probably be difficult to sell. If I go to a larger one and to the same I would probably get some of my money back I am going to look at a 2001 Beneteau 44CC next week. Again like Jose says there are trade-off. I love my current boat- and I go back and forth. ease of handling, great for two people - but what about when the kids and families come onboard on and on and on- Anyway good luck Charlie
No such thing as a perfect boat
We just purchased a new 423 Beneteau this past June and find it ot be an outsatnding saling vessel. Lare master forward cabin with seperate shower. Large capacity water and fuel. 54feet 4inches mast height from the ater line. You may want to look at one as they have proven to be a fine sailing vessel. While we like Bramasole it to has drawbacks but in my 30 years of saialing I have come to relaize that you have to make concessions no matter the lenght or brand of baot. Good luck in following your dreams.
We just purchased a new 423 Beneteau this past June and find it ot be an outsatnding saling vessel. Lare master forward cabin with seperate shower. Large capacity water and fuel. 54feet 4inches mast height from the ater line. You may want to look at one as they have proven to be a fine sailing vessel. While we like Bramasole it to has drawbacks but in my 30 years of saialing I have come to relaize that you have to make concessions no matter the lenght or brand of baot. Good luck in following your dreams.
Isn't there already an answer
Paul You describe your ideal as a cut down version of the 411. Isn't that where the 393 fits in. I have to admit to being biased as that what we own and find it does everything we ask of it. Richard
Paul You describe your ideal as a cut down version of the 411. Isn't that where the 393 fits in. I have to admit to being biased as that what we own and find it does everything we ask of it. Richard
Beneteau (Bend-a-Toe)
Paul, I agree with you that these vessels taper off aft, making it sometimes impossible to work the decks aft, or even board the vessel for that matter. I thinks Beneteaus' craftmanship issues are deeper than what you are seeing on the upper deck and chart table, and you should ensure your vessel is suitable for coastal cruising, let alone anything bluewater. RL
Paul, I agree with you that these vessels taper off aft, making it sometimes impossible to work the decks aft, or even board the vessel for that matter. I thinks Beneteaus' craftmanship issues are deeper than what you are seeing on the upper deck and chart table, and you should ensure your vessel is suitable for coastal cruising, let alone anything bluewater. RL
Disgruntled Beneteau owner
Rob, I am still puzzled why you are so unhappy with your boat. How did you buy it? If the dealer did not dealt with you at the time of purchase, you should bring your issues to Beneteau USA or France. All boats, even Hinckleys, have to be adjusted when new. If you bought it second hand, I am sorry but it is only your fault not to have checked the state of the boat. However, to claim in a previous post that your old Hunter was of better quality than Beneteau boats is a large stretch, particularly when Hunters seem to loose their mast with more frequency that many other boats.
Rob, I am still puzzled why you are so unhappy with your boat. How did you buy it? If the dealer did not dealt with you at the time of purchase, you should bring your issues to Beneteau USA or France. All boats, even Hinckleys, have to be adjusted when new. If you bought it second hand, I am sorry but it is only your fault not to have checked the state of the boat. However, to claim in a previous post that your old Hunter was of better quality than Beneteau boats is a large stretch, particularly when Hunters seem to loose their mast with more frequency that many other boats.
Considerations...
Richard : 393 is a great boat & sails well, however, the stbd berth is sacrificed for storage cabinets & so this model is not up for consideration. --------------- Joe : 423 is certainly also a great boat, however, we need a keel of 5ft to do the ICW, Keys & Bahamas. -------------- Rob : You rip on Beneteau in favor of Hunter ??? This could happen for one of two reasons...either you work for Hunter or you've sufferred a head injury. Since this topic has been covered in detail elsewhere, I'll just refer you (& everyone else) to this link http://206.131.241.61/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005111 Regards, Paul. www,winpipe.ca
Richard : 393 is a great boat & sails well, however, the stbd berth is sacrificed for storage cabinets & so this model is not up for consideration. --------------- Joe : 423 is certainly also a great boat, however, we need a keel of 5ft to do the ICW, Keys & Bahamas. -------------- Rob : You rip on Beneteau in favor of Hunter ??? This could happen for one of two reasons...either you work for Hunter or you've sufferred a head injury. Since this topic has been covered in detail elsewhere, I'll just refer you (& everyone else) to this link http://206.131.241.61/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005111 Regards, Paul. www,winpipe.ca
Hear No Evil!
Ok Guys, this forum is starting to sound like some supressed story out of 1950's Europe, like a person is not entitled to his or her own opinion! Do you only want to hear how great these boats are, or is the forum designed to assist people in need?? You guys remind me of a bunch of members of a corvette club, not sailors and seamen. In fairness to you, let me brief you re; our 1999 Beneteau Oceanis 461....... We purchased her for 60K usd from a salvage company after she sank in a very light grounding in the Bahamas. The entire rudder assembly broke out leaving an approximate 12" diameter hole in the hull. Water of course entered, and the 1 (Yes one) bilge pump that was attached to the vessel became in-op as water shorted out the low lying batteries below the bunks. I think I have had the opportunity to be into this particular vessel deeper and in more detail than alot of owners would ever get the chance to discover. Good for me. I am not disgruntled nor am I unhappy with my situation, I am actually thrilled regarding my recent launch. I simply found alot of things that were compromised one way or another. I have since corrected almost every issue, and I sit comfortable and safe today. If at any time anyone would like to hear how I improved this great vessel, and corrected many construction issues that I am positive would put any trip in mayhem, please ask and I sould be glad to assist. If tis is all to negative for some readers I am sorry that some of you cannot understand how supporting data is great in achieving solutions whether positive or negative. RL
Ok Guys, this forum is starting to sound like some supressed story out of 1950's Europe, like a person is not entitled to his or her own opinion! Do you only want to hear how great these boats are, or is the forum designed to assist people in need?? You guys remind me of a bunch of members of a corvette club, not sailors and seamen. In fairness to you, let me brief you re; our 1999 Beneteau Oceanis 461....... We purchased her for 60K usd from a salvage company after she sank in a very light grounding in the Bahamas. The entire rudder assembly broke out leaving an approximate 12" diameter hole in the hull. Water of course entered, and the 1 (Yes one) bilge pump that was attached to the vessel became in-op as water shorted out the low lying batteries below the bunks. I think I have had the opportunity to be into this particular vessel deeper and in more detail than alot of owners would ever get the chance to discover. Good for me. I am not disgruntled nor am I unhappy with my situation, I am actually thrilled regarding my recent launch. I simply found alot of things that were compromised one way or another. I have since corrected almost every issue, and I sit comfortable and safe today. If at any time anyone would like to hear how I improved this great vessel, and corrected many construction issues that I am positive would put any trip in mayhem, please ask and I sould be glad to assist. If tis is all to negative for some readers I am sorry that some of you cannot understand how supporting data is great in achieving solutions whether positive or negative. RL
423 draft
Regarding the draft on the 423 it is under 5 ft. on the wing keel so it should not pose a problem in thin water.
Regarding the draft on the 423 it is under 5 ft. on the wing keel so it should not pose a problem in thin water.
Rob
I knew something was different in your case and a little explanation goes a long way. Interesting story and worth it of a post describing the kinds of fix you did on her. Nothing wrong with negative comments but it is nice when they are explicit and come with helpful solutions. I don't think anybody thinks that Beneteaus are perfect and this forum is precisely for sharing ways to improve them. Glad to hear you are enjoying your vessel Jose
I knew something was different in your case and a little explanation goes a long way. Interesting story and worth it of a post describing the kinds of fix you did on her. Nothing wrong with negative comments but it is nice when they are explicit and come with helpful solutions. I don't think anybody thinks that Beneteaus are perfect and this forum is precisely for sharing ways to improve them. Glad to hear you are enjoying your vessel Jose
Good idea
Rob, I know I for one would be interested in some of the issues you found with the 461 as well as the solutions. As Jose said we are here to share ideas to improve the Beneteaus' we own. I have gotten some great ideas and some help from people on this forum. Jose being one of them. I do have to say it takes a bit more than a "light" grounding to take off a rudder and put a 12" hole in the boat. That aside I am really interested in your repairs etc Charlie
Rob, I know I for one would be interested in some of the issues you found with the 461 as well as the solutions. As Jose said we are here to share ideas to improve the Beneteaus' we own. I have gotten some great ideas and some help from people on this forum. Jose being one of them. I do have to say it takes a bit more than a "light" grounding to take off a rudder and put a 12" hole in the boat. That aside I am really interested in your repairs etc Charlie
Fantastic 461 at Bargain Prices
Value for money the 461 is a great boat. Design by Bruce Farr is sails fantastically. My purchase was 2 years ago when i bought an ex Sun Sail charter 4 cabin 2 head configuration. When new in Australia, they where $475,000 AUS. I pick it up for $265,000 AUS. Its in agreat condition and our family uses it every weekend and love it.
Value for money the 461 is a great boat. Design by Bruce Farr is sails fantastically. My purchase was 2 years ago when i bought an ex Sun Sail charter 4 cabin 2 head configuration. When new in Australia, they where $475,000 AUS. I pick it up for $265,000 AUS. Its in agreat condition and our family uses it every weekend and love it.
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