I keep doing the math and I hope that what I am doing is incorrect. My wife wants a new 40'ish sailboat, I suggested a 5 year old boat would offere better value. A particular new boat that we like is $260,000 new and after 5 years looks to have an asking price in the $175,000 area. I don't like that kind of drop in value. I know, there will be those who comment on "how can you put a price on something that you love" but "wow" a 30% hit. Comments from those who bought new vs. slightly used would be helpful Thank you very much.
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not a price issue
do you want to go sailing with or without your wife ? But is my mind a one or two year old boat is a better buy and may even give you more with electronics etc. Getting much older and you have bought a "used boat" with all it's +'s and -'s. Five years old and electronics are on the way out etc etc. Plus it is used and depending on condition is the real key. You need to shop around and be very careful.
do you want to go sailing with or without your wife ? But is my mind a one or two year old boat is a better buy and may even give you more with electronics etc. Getting much older and you have bought a "used boat" with all it's +'s and -'s. Five years old and electronics are on the way out etc etc. Plus it is used and depending on condition is the real key. You need to shop around and be very careful.
Guess It Depends again
5 years is not very old for electronics (that have been taken care of). I have a GPS, VHF, and radar that are 10 years old and show no signs of going bad. Used is decidely a better way to go for the following. You get the boat you want. You save 30% which, if you wife insists, you can take the money saved and get that "thing" that she really wants on the boat. I'm thinking fitted sheets or comforters made by a "professional" in the colors she (and hopefully you) like, leather seating.... the list is endless. You will have a hard time spending the 30% IMHO so you come up with a boat that somebody else took the depreation on and that you "upgraded" so that you will be able to get your money back out if you decide to sell. What is not to like? It is all about selling it to your wife and then finding the "right" boat. Get her in the mode of "you could redecorate the cabin/gally/head...", what ever her passion is, and it is all about passion!
5 years is not very old for electronics (that have been taken care of). I have a GPS, VHF, and radar that are 10 years old and show no signs of going bad. Used is decidely a better way to go for the following. You get the boat you want. You save 30% which, if you wife insists, you can take the money saved and get that "thing" that she really wants on the boat. I'm thinking fitted sheets or comforters made by a "professional" in the colors she (and hopefully you) like, leather seating.... the list is endless. You will have a hard time spending the 30% IMHO so you come up with a boat that somebody else took the depreation on and that you "upgraded" so that you will be able to get your money back out if you decide to sell. What is not to like? It is all about selling it to your wife and then finding the "right" boat. Get her in the mode of "you could redecorate the cabin/gally/head...", what ever her passion is, and it is all about passion!
Used vs New
I agree with Pete. Used is a much better buy than new. The absolute key ingredient is CONDITION. Some skippers look after their stuff better than others. I've seem some boats that are 20 years old in bristol condition and some just a couple years old that I wouldn't touch. With so many boats to choose from, I would be extremely selective and if you find a caring skipper chances are you're getting a well maintained vessel.
I agree with Pete. Used is a much better buy than new. The absolute key ingredient is CONDITION. Some skippers look after their stuff better than others. I've seem some boats that are 20 years old in bristol condition and some just a couple years old that I wouldn't touch. With so many boats to choose from, I would be extremely selective and if you find a caring skipper chances are you're getting a well maintained vessel.
New vs Used
My current 2003 H356 (bought slightly used in 2005) is my fourth boat in 30 years. My first boat (1975 Catalina 27) was my only boat bought new. I had more warranty problems with that boat then fixer upper problems on an used boat. My take on this is as follows. Buy recent vintage used because all of the teething problems have been solved and the first owner boughts all of the little items that nickle and dime you into the poor house. I agree with the other folks that condition is the key to any used boat purchase but I would also add that major equipment shold enter into the equation. For example, most 356s were bought with full canvas, AC, and RF main. However, I wanted a Vacuflush head which is a big deal if you plan to retofit it. We found exactly the boat we wanted and the Vacuflush head did not really influence the price we paid for it.
My current 2003 H356 (bought slightly used in 2005) is my fourth boat in 30 years. My first boat (1975 Catalina 27) was my only boat bought new. I had more warranty problems with that boat then fixer upper problems on an used boat. My take on this is as follows. Buy recent vintage used because all of the teething problems have been solved and the first owner boughts all of the little items that nickle and dime you into the poor house. I agree with the other folks that condition is the key to any used boat purchase but I would also add that major equipment shold enter into the equation. For example, most 356s were bought with full canvas, AC, and RF main. However, I wanted a Vacuflush head which is a big deal if you plan to retofit it. We found exactly the boat we wanted and the Vacuflush head did not really influence the price we paid for it.
forget about depreciation
If you are looking at the boat as an investment then don't do it because you will be sorely dissapointed. I look at the fun, relaxation and quality time spent with my family, and you can't put a price on that. PS--best bet is to buy a used boat.
If you are looking at the boat as an investment then don't do it because you will be sorely dissapointed. I look at the fun, relaxation and quality time spent with my family, and you can't put a price on that. PS--best bet is to buy a used boat.
I buy new!
I nave had two new sailboats - a 98 H260 and currently own an 03 H356. We are on our fourth season this year. I like new stuff, and fortunatly can afford to buy new. There is however a premium you pay for fitting out a boat new in both time and money. I put all the bells and whistles on this boat, and it is one of the best equipped in the fleet. I probably would take a $50,000 hit if I sold today, but have no plans to sell or trade. There is about a 6 month time frame getting the boat fitted out with all the canvas and other add ons. We love our 356 and I know every hour on the generator and engine. Money wise, I could have saved quite a bit buying used, but money wasn't my primary concern. If some of us didn't buy new, then you guys that want used boats wouldn't have a source.
I nave had two new sailboats - a 98 H260 and currently own an 03 H356. We are on our fourth season this year. I like new stuff, and fortunatly can afford to buy new. There is however a premium you pay for fitting out a boat new in both time and money. I put all the bells and whistles on this boat, and it is one of the best equipped in the fleet. I probably would take a $50,000 hit if I sold today, but have no plans to sell or trade. There is about a 6 month time frame getting the boat fitted out with all the canvas and other add ons. We love our 356 and I know every hour on the generator and engine. Money wise, I could have saved quite a bit buying used, but money wasn't my primary concern. If some of us didn't buy new, then you guys that want used boats wouldn't have a source.
I've done both
The first boat was new - because I didn't find any used ones I liked. - I was really looking in the wrong places. The second was used and is in great shape. I've also build one - but it was only 12 feet.
The first boat was new - because I didn't find any used ones I liked. - I was really looking in the wrong places. The second was used and is in great shape. I've also build one - but it was only 12 feet.
Used all the way
for all the reasons mentioned, plus the fact that a boat a few years old will have had those little problems and hassles solved, and extra equipment added, and a lot of thought and time invested by the seller, none of which he ever seems to include in his mental calculation of what he has "into" the boat, and which you therefore get essentially "for free".
for all the reasons mentioned, plus the fact that a boat a few years old will have had those little problems and hassles solved, and extra equipment added, and a lot of thought and time invested by the seller, none of which he ever seems to include in his mental calculation of what he has "into" the boat, and which you therefore get essentially "for free".
Do you want to go sailing or outfitting?
I would put my time into finding a used boat ready to sail including dinghy on davits. If you don't you will spend endless hours not sailing your new under equipped (delivered in the fall) trophy boat. What is your real goal, sailing or outfitting?
I would put my time into finding a used boat ready to sail including dinghy on davits. If you don't you will spend endless hours not sailing your new under equipped (delivered in the fall) trophy boat. What is your real goal, sailing or outfitting?
New/Old
I like new vehicles, but the depreciation hit on boats is really bad, which equates to a lot of money in this price range. There are many boats out there, just find the make and model you like with low engine hours that has been well maintained. That way you will have a great boat, at a great price, broken in, with all the bugs worked out of it.
I like new vehicles, but the depreciation hit on boats is really bad, which equates to a lot of money in this price range. There are many boats out there, just find the make and model you like with low engine hours that has been well maintained. That way you will have a great boat, at a great price, broken in, with all the bugs worked out of it.
Do what your wife says!
After having had two new boats over a span of 20 years I thought my next boat would be a used one as I thought I now knew enough about boats to find the perfect boat at a reasonable price! Didn't happen. After looking around, every boat I looked at needed work or modification(and this was prior to survey)to make it to my (and my wife's) liking. At this stage in life I didn't look forward to spending the next year fixing other's mistakes so I got a new one. You have to remember that you're going to have to spend a bit to bring the old one up to "like new". If you can afford it,order what you want, get it delivered with what you want, get the dealer to fix everything to your liking and go sailing. Your kids won't miss the difference when you go to the big pond in the sky.
After having had two new boats over a span of 20 years I thought my next boat would be a used one as I thought I now knew enough about boats to find the perfect boat at a reasonable price! Didn't happen. After looking around, every boat I looked at needed work or modification(and this was prior to survey)to make it to my (and my wife's) liking. At this stage in life I didn't look forward to spending the next year fixing other's mistakes so I got a new one. You have to remember that you're going to have to spend a bit to bring the old one up to "like new". If you can afford it,order what you want, get it delivered with what you want, get the dealer to fix everything to your liking and go sailing. Your kids won't miss the difference when you go to the big pond in the sky.
Older is always better - with boats!
I bought a boat that was 5 years old....It was cheaper and in good shape. I've probably added more "wear" than the original owner. Don't get me wrong the boat had a few dings but nothing that kept me at the docks or yard late at night...I spent more time sailing than fixing anything and the boat came pre-depreciated!!! It's only lost 4K from when I bought it 3 years ago - not bad.
I bought a boat that was 5 years old....It was cheaper and in good shape. I've probably added more "wear" than the original owner. Don't get me wrong the boat had a few dings but nothing that kept me at the docks or yard late at night...I spent more time sailing than fixing anything and the boat came pre-depreciated!!! It's only lost 4K from when I bought it 3 years ago - not bad.
If you buy a new boat
you'll most likely STILL (dagnabbit) have to upgrade the electrical system, even in a 40 something footer. You may note that they still come from factories with anemic 55 amp alternators with automotive regulation, and a few cruddy batteries, if you're lucky. Unless you go to a specialty high end semi-custom outfit like Pacific Seacraft, I doubt if a production company would do an electrical upgrade for you. Perhaps a dealer would, but you'd pretty much have to know what you want, or design it with them. Most of the issues I've seen with boats in the past decade has to do with electrical systems, because of all the toys and bells and whistles and meaningful navigation equipment that has been installed. So, two suggestions (regardless of which way you go): 1. Check the electrical system, how it generates power, if the alternator is externally regulated, large enough, etc., before you have to start thinking about alternate sources (i.e., generator, solar, etc.) 2. As always
see how easy it is to check the dip stick!!! Good luck, Stu
you'll most likely STILL (dagnabbit) have to upgrade the electrical system, even in a 40 something footer. You may note that they still come from factories with anemic 55 amp alternators with automotive regulation, and a few cruddy batteries, if you're lucky. Unless you go to a specialty high end semi-custom outfit like Pacific Seacraft, I doubt if a production company would do an electrical upgrade for you. Perhaps a dealer would, but you'd pretty much have to know what you want, or design it with them. Most of the issues I've seen with boats in the past decade has to do with electrical systems, because of all the toys and bells and whistles and meaningful navigation equipment that has been installed. So, two suggestions (regardless of which way you go): 1. Check the electrical system, how it generates power, if the alternator is externally regulated, large enough, etc., before you have to start thinking about alternate sources (i.e., generator, solar, etc.) 2. As always
see how easy it is to check the dip stick!!! Good luck, StuNew or Used
I like newer I don't want to be working on it I'd rather be sailing. I bought my 2001 290 dealers demo sailing school boat less than a year old. I saved a lot of money and love the boat and I am looking to buy the hunter 36 new or one or two or three years old. Some buy new with all the extra's and some buy really old bigger and are always working on them but if thats what you like more power to them and what ever makes you and your wife happy. There's no perfect solution for everyone.
I like newer I don't want to be working on it I'd rather be sailing. I bought my 2001 290 dealers demo sailing school boat less than a year old. I saved a lot of money and love the boat and I am looking to buy the hunter 36 new or one or two or three years old. Some buy new with all the extra's and some buy really old bigger and are always working on them but if thats what you like more power to them and what ever makes you and your wife happy. There's no perfect solution for everyone.
What kind of value?
I have been willing to pay a premium price for new boats so that I know the exact history and usage of the boat and all its equipment. This gives me peace of mind for some reason. Also when I looked at and considered a used boat one time, I was turned off by the sight of soap scum and hair in the shower drain. If I had to look at scum and hair in a boat, I wanted it to be my scum and hair. I think I am pickier than most people are. I still have never used the inside shower in my six-year-old boat. On the other hand, if I want the most boat I can get for my money, I would have to buy a used one. The best tangible value is a slightly used boat for sure. But the less tangible benefits of a new boat are important to me. The decision just depends on what you value, and are willing to pay for. It’s a very personal decision.
I have been willing to pay a premium price for new boats so that I know the exact history and usage of the boat and all its equipment. This gives me peace of mind for some reason. Also when I looked at and considered a used boat one time, I was turned off by the sight of soap scum and hair in the shower drain. If I had to look at scum and hair in a boat, I wanted it to be my scum and hair. I think I am pickier than most people are. I still have never used the inside shower in my six-year-old boat. On the other hand, if I want the most boat I can get for my money, I would have to buy a used one. The best tangible value is a slightly used boat for sure. But the less tangible benefits of a new boat are important to me. The decision just depends on what you value, and are willing to pay for. It’s a very personal decision.
new or old
You're out of my league. I just bought a used 25/trailer for 7k. I could have afforded a 25k boat but this will serve my purposes well. It's parked by my 18 footer that I use for daysailing. Even if I would have spent 25k it would have been for a 27 foot max boat. If 260k is part of your disposible income well go for it. I still have money left if some day I want to trade up. gene
You're out of my league. I just bought a used 25/trailer for 7k. I could have afforded a 25k boat but this will serve my purposes well. It's parked by my 18 footer that I use for daysailing. Even if I would have spent 25k it would have been for a 27 foot max boat. If 260k is part of your disposible income well go for it. I still have money left if some day I want to trade up. gene
It depends on the kind of sailing.
If you are planning on extensive offshore cruising buy new (1 to 3 years) or be ready to conduct a partial (3 to 6 years) or total (6+)refit. For safety reasons and cost wise maintenance new systems and components are desireable. It is more time and cost effective to refit a boat at home than to conduct repairs at sea or some foreign port. Obviously some production models even if new are not up to the task of offshore cruising. If you are thinking coastal cruising then a used boat will do nicely. It is not a matter of if things will break but more of a matter of what and when. In coastal cruising if the boat is incapacitated you can call the tow boat of your choice and other repairs you can conduct at your leisure. New can also break but you just have better odds. Unless you have an unlimited budget everything is a compromise; better, smaller, older vs weaker, larger, newer or combination of. The important thing is get the right boat for the type of sailing intended and then depending on your budget the size and age are the trade offs.
If you are planning on extensive offshore cruising buy new (1 to 3 years) or be ready to conduct a partial (3 to 6 years) or total (6+)refit. For safety reasons and cost wise maintenance new systems and components are desireable. It is more time and cost effective to refit a boat at home than to conduct repairs at sea or some foreign port. Obviously some production models even if new are not up to the task of offshore cruising. If you are thinking coastal cruising then a used boat will do nicely. It is not a matter of if things will break but more of a matter of what and when. In coastal cruising if the boat is incapacitated you can call the tow boat of your choice and other repairs you can conduct at your leisure. New can also break but you just have better odds. Unless you have an unlimited budget everything is a compromise; better, smaller, older vs weaker, larger, newer or combination of. The important thing is get the right boat for the type of sailing intended and then depending on your budget the size and age are the trade offs.
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