I've been outsailed by two Beneteau's this past weekend both First 30 models, one from the 80's and the other an early 90's model. This bothers me. I have a 310 with main furling (I understand this is a racing disadvantage)and a standard 110 jib. All stock stuff. What can I do to make the boat go faster? Suggestions about using what I already have better and/or information about added sails and equipment would be appreciated. I have been told that the B&R rig won't take large headsails (I don't believe this). I am curious about asymmetrical spinnaker, larger headsail with tracks on the deck, winches on the coamings. I can usually squeeze about 7.2 knots out of the boat at 15 to 17 kts wind. I have maxed at 7.8 but I don't know how I did it and I haven't been able to do it but the one time. Ya'll help. My ego is suffering and we as Hunter owners can't let Beneteaus's outrun us. Any and all comments would be appreciated. Thanks, JT
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Apples & Oranges
Jesse, I'm afraid the answer is that the 310 cannot be competitive with the First 310's because they are different animals. The hunter is a roomy cruiser; the Beneteau is a racer/cruiser, built and configured to go fast and modifiable to go even faster. I'm sure that your Hunter could be much faster with considerable modification and expense. Folding prop; spinnaker rigging; fairing the bottom and keel; additional sails and means for quick headsail changes instead of roller furling; etc. I'm not sure that the boat would still beat the B boat even with such expenses because of the basic design differences. Taking what you have, a larger headsail for lighter wind conditions and an assymetrical spinnaker would still help the boat go faster and be more fun to sail. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear".
Jesse, I'm afraid the answer is that the 310 cannot be competitive with the First 310's because they are different animals. The hunter is a roomy cruiser; the Beneteau is a racer/cruiser, built and configured to go fast and modifiable to go even faster. I'm sure that your Hunter could be much faster with considerable modification and expense. Folding prop; spinnaker rigging; fairing the bottom and keel; additional sails and means for quick headsail changes instead of roller furling; etc. I'm not sure that the boat would still beat the B boat even with such expenses because of the basic design differences. Taking what you have, a larger headsail for lighter wind conditions and an assymetrical spinnaker would still help the boat go faster and be more fun to sail. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear".
Here is a list!
Jessie: Your question is a little broad, there are so many things to do... This is a partial list, I hope it doesn't sound too synical. Just for fun:
Underwater: 1. Clean the bottom 2. Buy a feathering prop 3. Repaint the bottom with VC-17 4. Sand it smooth 5. Fair the keel 6. Fair the rudder 7. Sand it smoother 8. Clean the bottom Above the water: 1. Improve your boat handling: tacks, jibes, steering at mark roundings, etc. 2. Volunteer to be committee boat - It will help your starts. 3. Crew on anyone else's boat and take a good racing clinic, J-World or Offshore. 4. Buy a bigger head sail 5. Buy a whisker pole 6. Rig topping lift for pole 7. Recruit crew to help handle the new equipment. 8. Buy/install new winches to handle bigger sails, and new spinnaker (see number 10) 9. Buy/install new rope clutches to handle new control lines 10. Buy/install new deck organizers ro handle new control lines 11. Buy new spinnaker, pole, lift, control lines, sheets 12. Take a class to practice/improve spinnaker sets, trim, etc. 13. Recruit crew to sit on the rail - it will help you go faster! 14. Work on improving boat handling (See number 1) At the Yacht Club or Racing Association: 1. Lobby for PHRF relief - you have small head sail, and a furling main, fixed prop, etc. and others have racing mains, multiple head sails, feathering props. 2. Keep your chin up when they tell you that PHRF is not designed to compensate for inferior equipment, lack of skill, or lack of experience. 3. Lobby for club to start a crusing fleet with strict rules limiting equipment to near standard, penalizing "racer-like" behavor (see all of the above). 4. Have fun!! 5. Pick a couple of boats close to you in speed. Race each week to beat them. 6. Be happy with small victories. Ron s/v Counterpoint
Jessie: Your question is a little broad, there are so many things to do... This is a partial list, I hope it doesn't sound too synical. Just for fun:
Underwater: 1. Clean the bottom 2. Buy a feathering prop 3. Repaint the bottom with VC-17 4. Sand it smooth 5. Fair the keel 6. Fair the rudder 7. Sand it smoother 8. Clean the bottom Above the water: 1. Improve your boat handling: tacks, jibes, steering at mark roundings, etc. 2. Volunteer to be committee boat - It will help your starts. 3. Crew on anyone else's boat and take a good racing clinic, J-World or Offshore. 4. Buy a bigger head sail 5. Buy a whisker pole 6. Rig topping lift for pole 7. Recruit crew to help handle the new equipment. 8. Buy/install new winches to handle bigger sails, and new spinnaker (see number 10) 9. Buy/install new rope clutches to handle new control lines 10. Buy/install new deck organizers ro handle new control lines 11. Buy new spinnaker, pole, lift, control lines, sheets 12. Take a class to practice/improve spinnaker sets, trim, etc. 13. Recruit crew to sit on the rail - it will help you go faster! 14. Work on improving boat handling (See number 1) At the Yacht Club or Racing Association: 1. Lobby for PHRF relief - you have small head sail, and a furling main, fixed prop, etc. and others have racing mains, multiple head sails, feathering props. 2. Keep your chin up when they tell you that PHRF is not designed to compensate for inferior equipment, lack of skill, or lack of experience. 3. Lobby for club to start a crusing fleet with strict rules limiting equipment to near standard, penalizing "racer-like" behavor (see all of the above). 4. Have fun!! 5. Pick a couple of boats close to you in speed. Race each week to beat them. 6. Be happy with small victories. Ron s/v CounterpointFun Race this weekend
I have a 320 and depending on wind conditions either am dead last or somewhere in the middle of the fleet on actual time. Our club has a cruising race format, baiscally down the lake and back. This weekend, I beat (across the finish line) a catalina 30, a Beneteau 310 and a catalina 320 (can't wait to see corrected times). All three of those boats should be able to clean my clock on any given weekend, some have performance upgrades, others are just faster. Two major things paid off this weekend, one was I remembered where the finish line was (set to the south side of the lake with the wind blowing out of the south) and in heavy gusts I had better control over the boat. As said on the previous post, find who your competition is and race them. Have fun and remember its not always about speed, sometimes its about who screws up the least. Regards. Bruce Neon Moon
I have a 320 and depending on wind conditions either am dead last or somewhere in the middle of the fleet on actual time. Our club has a cruising race format, baiscally down the lake and back. This weekend, I beat (across the finish line) a catalina 30, a Beneteau 310 and a catalina 320 (can't wait to see corrected times). All three of those boats should be able to clean my clock on any given weekend, some have performance upgrades, others are just faster. Two major things paid off this weekend, one was I remembered where the finish line was (set to the south side of the lake with the wind blowing out of the south) and in heavy gusts I had better control over the boat. As said on the previous post, find who your competition is and race them. Have fun and remember its not always about speed, sometimes its about who screws up the least. Regards. Bruce Neon Moon
Polar diagrams
does the 310 have the winged keel? The Beneteaus were cleaning my clock when I was trying to point like them. After reading the articles about winged keels not pointing and polar diagrams, I changed the strategy for racing our 29.5. I no longer try to point with those s.o. beneteaus, espectially in light air. Now I'm beating them once in a while, a in striking distance frequently. (BTW-150 genoa on a 29.5 and asym. spinaker help!) I still don't agree with the PHRF numbers, but until they change I will try to sail wide and fast (keep up your boat speed) and pray for strong breezes (they will help you point closer to the soBs). Anyone agree with me or am I havanna daydream?
does the 310 have the winged keel? The Beneteaus were cleaning my clock when I was trying to point like them. After reading the articles about winged keels not pointing and polar diagrams, I changed the strategy for racing our 29.5. I no longer try to point with those s.o. beneteaus, espectially in light air. Now I'm beating them once in a while, a in striking distance frequently. (BTW-150 genoa on a 29.5 and asym. spinaker help!) I still don't agree with the PHRF numbers, but until they change I will try to sail wide and fast (keep up your boat speed) and pray for strong breezes (they will help you point closer to the soBs). Anyone agree with me or am I havanna daydream?
The Need For Speed [answered]
All of the problems you have discovered for your 310 we also found on the Hunter 29.5. Please check my report on the 29.5's modifications and those nasty Beneteau's wont bother you any more. Look in archives under Maximize your 29.5's Sailing Potential. Sincerely-----------------DON STAGG
All of the problems you have discovered for your 310 we also found on the Hunter 29.5. Please check my report on the 29.5's modifications and those nasty Beneteau's wont bother you any more. Look in archives under Maximize your 29.5's Sailing Potential. Sincerely-----------------DON STAGG
Furling Main Factor
As soon as you said your boat has a furling main I didn't have to read any further. You correctly stated this is a "racing disadvantage"; however, this is a severe understatement! The power in your rig comes from the wind aloft and roach in the main really helps. Look at almost any multihull and their sail plan will sport a large roach main. The reason Hunter went to a rig without a backstay is to put a large roach in the main. Unfortunately, a furling main has a reverse roach, and in addition, the mast is heavier because of the furling system. If you want any chance of not being left in their wake there are basically two options: (1) Change the rig and eliminate the furling main, or, (2) turn on the engine. With our Hunter Legend 35 ('88) we generally smoke the Beneteaus and Catalinas much larger than us. We have a full batten main, backstay adjuster, and a Max-prop (feathering prop). We use a 110 or a 150 depending on the conditions. In our club the boats we beat boat-for-boat include two Catalina 42's (fairly new), Beneteau 44, Hinkly 59 (with a furling main). All the boats have good skippers and Petit Trinidad bottom paint or equal so in that regard we're more or less equal. Having said that, a Catalina 27 which has been 'tricked out' (faired bottom with slick bottom paint, etc. etc.) will give us a good run for the money. The suggestions everybody else gave are good but unless the furling main rig is changed out, in my opinion, you haven't got a chance.
As soon as you said your boat has a furling main I didn't have to read any further. You correctly stated this is a "racing disadvantage"; however, this is a severe understatement! The power in your rig comes from the wind aloft and roach in the main really helps. Look at almost any multihull and their sail plan will sport a large roach main. The reason Hunter went to a rig without a backstay is to put a large roach in the main. Unfortunately, a furling main has a reverse roach, and in addition, the mast is heavier because of the furling system. If you want any chance of not being left in their wake there are basically two options: (1) Change the rig and eliminate the furling main, or, (2) turn on the engine. With our Hunter Legend 35 ('88) we generally smoke the Beneteaus and Catalinas much larger than us. We have a full batten main, backstay adjuster, and a Max-prop (feathering prop). We use a 110 or a 150 depending on the conditions. In our club the boats we beat boat-for-boat include two Catalina 42's (fairly new), Beneteau 44, Hinkly 59 (with a furling main). All the boats have good skippers and Petit Trinidad bottom paint or equal so in that regard we're more or less equal. Having said that, a Catalina 27 which has been 'tricked out' (faired bottom with slick bottom paint, etc. etc.) will give us a good run for the money. The suggestions everybody else gave are good but unless the furling main rig is changed out, in my opinion, you haven't got a chance.
7.8 kts without spinaker..
..looks like your speed unit wasn't calibrated well.you might check it with a (12 channel) GPS in smooth water. it is above the theoretical hull max speed for this model , unless it was with a momentarrily help of large wave while running . Re improving speed , the furling maisail here is the problem.. with my '29.5' , I easily overtook a new -furling main-'340'..
..looks like your speed unit wasn't calibrated well.you might check it with a (12 channel) GPS in smooth water. it is above the theoretical hull max speed for this model , unless it was with a momentarrily help of large wave while running . Re improving speed , the furling maisail here is the problem.. with my '29.5' , I easily overtook a new -furling main-'340'..
Speed
I have a '97 310 and race at a local club. I agree that your speed may not be accurate--this is much faster than mine and I don't have an in-mast furler. To improve my speed I installed an addtional genoa track further aft. along the inside of the deck below the cabin windows/ports. I then had UK build a new head sail--it's approximately a 145. This has helped my speed 10-15%in light winds. I haven't seen any problems with the B&R rig---though they stated they didn't recommend it--and wouldn't give me any advice as to installation. Other boats are still faster but this has been a help. Installing the track was a nightmare--but I'm please with the results. Waine
I have a '97 310 and race at a local club. I agree that your speed may not be accurate--this is much faster than mine and I don't have an in-mast furler. To improve my speed I installed an addtional genoa track further aft. along the inside of the deck below the cabin windows/ports. I then had UK build a new head sail--it's approximately a 145. This has helped my speed 10-15%in light winds. I haven't seen any problems with the B&R rig---though they stated they didn't recommend it--and wouldn't give me any advice as to installation. Other boats are still faster but this has been a help. Installing the track was a nightmare--but I'm please with the results. Waine
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