The Live-Aboard Debate... Looking for a few good opinions!

Ross · May 12, 2010

We had four feet of snow in a week here this February past. That means four feet on deck, on dock, on parking lot, on car. There is a thread over on the woodenboat forum "11 years on a 27 foot boat". Check it out, there is more wisdom there than I could scrape up in a year.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=61697&highlight=living+aboard

MrUnix · May 12, 2010

I have known people who lived aboard 27 footers comfortably, and I purchased my previous H27 from someone who was living on it down in the Keys.. but it rarely gets cold down there

I have also known many people who were living aboard their boats down in the Keys and South Florida, on boats from about 50 to 70 feet long, and considered them way too small. What is your motivation for wanting to live on board?

Cheers,
Brad

zeehag · May 12, 2010

if you have a passion for the sea , is a lot easier to do this---there is no right or wrong way to do anything---depends on your ultimate goals for the boat, and yourself..are you going to sail it? are you going to sit at a dock and reside aboard just to reside aboard? there are many boats out there available for both ways...and a lot are under 50k at this point--with the market as it is--you wont find them in a broker's, you will find them at the dock with your cash in your hand.....is a buyers market---and will get better---if you find a cruising boat you like and have a desire to go cruising maybe this will be your last boat--ye might like it so much that you sail away and enjoy life in it....the feeling while i read your post kind of seemed to say you want to merely live on a sailboat for the sake of living on a sailboat--a boat is not like a house..there are functions and aesthetics as well.
you are learning that not all boats are alike--you may find anything out there----goood luck...i have found in experience of watching the adjustment period for many years, that those not seduced by the sea donot last as long living in the sailboat as do those who are driven to cruise......goood luck an may your adventure begin....

Ed Schenck · May 12, 2010

I like your plan and wish I were forty years younger and footloose. The budget has to include a good heating system. I doubt you will find a sailboat that is insulated. Personally I would stay with a sloop or cutter, something easier to sail for those days when you want to get off the dock. I single-hand my cutter most of the time. Then I think a center cockpit might be nice for the big aft stateroom. I have a friend that is been in Lake Erie on a 27 for years. Sure does help the budget. But I agree that something around 40 is better.

Patrick S/V Shangra-La · May 12, 2010

Re: The Live-Aboard Debate... Looking for a few good opinions

Personally, I would look at either a sloop, or a cutter with a CENTER COCKPIT!. It will give you a seperate cabbin for your self and pleanty of storage.

Prime Time · May 12, 2010

Staying Warm

The insulation on a boat won't contribute much to retaining heat. It does help with condensation. The smaller the cabin the easier it is to heat! You need to keep in mind how you are going to heat. Wood or pellet stove, kerosene, diesel, alcohol or electric are all options.

At your price range, you are likely to find some boats that need a lot of work.

zeehag · May 12, 2010

ok cool--before you start jumping in with both feets first---look at many different boats--walk lots of docks. what puts a gleam in your eye and a flutter in your chest? you may just find that---keep your eyes open and ask a lot of questions about things you think you need in this adventure. folks will all have different points of view---listen and sort well....lol....his is worse than finding a spouse. ye can always ditch the spouse--is harder to sell a boat..LOL...
ketch vs cutter?? gooood question and almost valid argument. yes the ketch has many more sail patterns usable--how often do ketch rigged boats sail with more than just jib and jigger?? maybe if in a race!!! realistically --i rarely see out cruising any ketch with a mainsail raised. have seen many using only the foresail and mizzensail---or jib and jigger. functional and practical to have the sails far apart when sailing down wind---handles better and catches more wind than the average sloop or cutter, which usually sail under only 2 of the sails on board. sail everything and find which you like best. ketch vs sloop/cutter is akin to manual tranny vs automatic tranny in an argument about car control. the sloop/cutter is the automatic tranny. the ketch has many gears to use under different situations. sail is the gear in the tranny. is more difficult in a sloop to down shift for heavy weather yet remain sailing under control. heavy weather comes up. in many local areas without any verbal warning from the weather stations on vhf or on tv news/weather. have to know the sky signs and such--ketches are sailed many times under the 2 sails most used in heavy weather---sloops have to find which of their 2 gears to use and just exactly how much of it to use. and do we wanna drop this main an d sail under jib alone in this 25kt wind? lol..btdt.....most ketches are heavier in their build than are sloops and some designs of cutter---westsaill and gozzard/bayfield and fuji come into mind ...hey are good also for sailcruising--designed as cutter rigs.....so is a variety of boats and everyone has an opinion as to which is best...goood luck...
some ketches include allied, formosa, ct, hardin, gozzard has designed some --pearson--they also have a yawl--a sloop with training wheel ..steadying sail astern...look around well and have fun!

forgott o mention-- a ketch is not as easily used for entertainin gfriends as they have to duck the mizzenboom every time they go from side to side of boat--lol---can be entertaining, but the price can be loss of friends lol.....is reallly easy to have friends over to visit in the sloop as there is only one mast, and is in front of cockpit...LOL....tiller vs wheel----wheel takes up allada entertainment room of the cockpit--many choose tillers over wheel for handling purposes.....and vice versa---LOL...

Roger Long · May 12, 2010

It's that time again

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Liveaboard.htm

Tim R. · May 12, 2010

Shrinkwrap it in the winter and you will have a nice warm solarium on sunny days. Use the translucent shrinkwrap.

My wife and I are shopping for our next boat which will be a live aboard here in Maine. Our ages, level of experience and budget are all a little more than yours. We are looking for 40+ that is blue water proven, CC, fast with plenty of storage and not too bad on the eyes. We will be buying the best boat we can find in our budget and reserve about 20%(and I do 99% of the work) for upgrading equipment over a couple of years at which point we will take an extended cruise.

Your budget is a little low. You should be able to find something very nice in the 35' area that is comfortable enough for a young person like yourself to be happy on. A CC will give you the most home-like layout with a separate aft cabin that is well away from the other cabins. I would not worry about freezing assuming you install a good reliable heater. Diesel is a good option as it is easy to refill from your local Mobil(with jerry cans) and you will likely already have a tank on your boat. An electric space heater is good for small areas that the other heater will not reach. A good dehumidifier is not a bad idea either.

Good luck with your search.

MrUnix · May 12, 2010

rtdbphoto said:
Roger Long, I don't think you understand... I've lived (for years) in a studio efficiency near in one of the loudest most unsafe neighborhoods... a boat in the water at 4am does not compare to gun shots at the same time. It was also roughly the same size as my c27... So... That article sounded like a dream, and any 40' boat I get myself on will be one of the largest most amenity filled places i've ever been in.

Then I might suggest that instead of throwing your money away, you take that cash you have saved up and invest it in a house!

Cheers,
Brad

Tim R. · May 12, 2010

MrUnix said:
Then I might suggest that instead of throwing your money away, you take that cash you have saved up and invest it in a house!

Cheers,
Brad

BS. You are not throwing your money away. Live the dream. Why wait. Houses are not that great of an investment now anyway.

If you have the means and opportunity to live on a boat and it is what you want to do then do it. The money saved living on a boat could offset any future gain you might get from home ownership. Assuming you do actually gain after figuring in the cost and any interest you paid over the years.

I am one of hte lucky ones. I should be able to sell my house in this market for a profit even after figuring in the interest I have paid over the last 12 years. I will take the money and run. Put it into a boat and have some fun. I do not plan to work to death, wait for 65 and then retire.

Check out this link: Not everyone can manage this but these people sure seem happy. I am not saying you can retire early but there are some good ideas here for some money saving tips while living on a boat.

http://www.frugal-retirement-living.com/early-retirement-planning.html

Bill Roosa · May 12, 2010

How are you going to live

In winter you will most likley be slip bound with ice. Not much fun to go out in 30 degrees anyway. So that means that during colder (real colder) weather you will have shore power all the time. You can invest in a heating system that uses fuel but then you have to lug the fuel down the dock (you can't get to the fuel dock remember) That is like 5 gal a day minimum when I did the calculations. Or you can use electricity and just upgrade your wiring. Much cheaper but the heaters tend to get in your way till you find just the rught place for them. The Vee birth will be the coldest place due to the increased surface area to volume there. I shut the door and don't go there.
Also consider getting a bimini that has side panels. These make your cockpit like a back porch and during the day can add substantially to heating the boat. Nice and bright and you only need a jacket during even the coldest days.
A sloop will be easier to sail in general
A 40ish will give you an aft and forward stateroom and have most of the amenities (washer and dryer are not exential if you have a marina that has facilities)
$75k sounds a little light but now is the time to get a good deal as everybody freeks about the cost of maintaining a boat. Just make sure she has good bones.
As far as adjustment periods, will the walls do close in on you at times but the all you have to do is go up on deck. There are lots of things that you can't get in a normal abode. I had a pair of malards that woudl fight outside my hull every morning at 0400. Don't know why but they where a great alarm clock.

Id' do it again in a heartbeat if I didn't have kids.

Snotter · May 12, 2010

Many sailboats over 40' have reverse-cycle AC. I'd recommend that you buy one with a reverse-cycle system.

Warning: marinas are the world's most lonely places in the winter.

Stu Jackson · May 12, 2010

Snotter said:
Many sailboats over 40' have reverse-cycle AC. I'd recommend that you buy one with a reverse-cycle system.

Be careful about reverse cycle AC. What these are are heat pumps. Think of a window air conditioner that you can reverse in the winter so the hot air comes in insdie, only it does it automatically with a valve inside the unit. Based on the laws of thermodynamics (yeah, I'm an engineer, but I hated that course, too!) you just won't get much heat out of it. Why? Because the air conditioning - cooling - side of it is designed to make 95 outside 75 inside. That means 75 inside is only good to 55 outside. It's gonna get a LOT colder in the winter than that. Plus you're totally dependent on electricity for heat.

There are two kinds of diesel heating systems: hot air or hydronic (water pipes to small coils around the boat). More engineering says that hot air distribution is much drier than hydronic. This means you'll have less condensation because the hot air systems take some outside air and heat it instead of recirculating inside air all the time. Downside is you need more room to route the air ducts around inside the boat.

Spell check: if you have a PC, Google iespell - I use it all the time for these boards.

sailingdog · May 12, 2010

First of all, I'd point out that boats don't grow in size in a linear manner. A 35' boat is not 30% larger than a 27' boat as you'd expect, but more like 70% larger as boats gain in length, width and depth. So going from a 27' boat to a 35' boat might be more than sufficient.

Also, given your budget, you're far more likely to get a boat in decent shape that doesn't require a lot of work or repair, which means it will be far better for living aboard.

Things you will need:

Heat, insulation and ventilation. These are a major requirement, since living aboard introduces a lot of moisture onto the boat, especially in colder weather, and you need to be able to dry the boat out so that mold/mildew don't drive you from the boat. A vented heater is a better choice than an electric heater, as most liveaboards will have to pay electricity bills, and electric heat is relatively expensive, especially compared to diesel heat. Also, a vented diesel heater is far more versatile than shorepower based electric heat.

Good Cooking facilities: A proper galley will make living aboard a lot more comfortable. I like using a grill, but they're generally not allowed for use when in a slip. A good stove with oven, preferably propane, makes cooking aboard a boat a lot simpler.

A good berth: You need to have a berth that is comfortable and setup so that you can keep it reasonably warm. V-berth cabins are often poor choices for this, since they're often used for stowage of things like bagged sails and such. Also, closing off the v-berth is often necessary to help keep the boat heated to reasonable degree, especially in colder weather. An aft cabin or good quarterberth is a better choice IMHO.

A good sleeping bag goes a long way to making a boat more livable.

So does having a fairly large selection of fleece clothing.

Just curious, why do you think a ketch has more stowage than a sloop??? That's somewhat odd a conclusion to draw. The coastal cruiser type boats are going to be more spacious than their bluewater counterparts and less expensive. However, bluewater, long distance cruising boats, may be better suited in terms of insulation, heat, etc.

Be aware that you'll be pretty much forced to use the marina facilities in the dead of winter, since using the head isn't often wise since it needs to remain winterized. Good boots and a marina that has head facilities relatively close to your boat is very key. Some marinas consolidate the winter liveaboards to a dock that is closest to the facilities.

rtdbphoto said:
Hello All,
I'm currently weighing out all of the pros and cons of living aboard a sailboat. Have finished the math, and I'm gonna go for it. I just need some help finding the right boat for me and I'm reaching out to see what others have done.

First off. I'm 28 years old (this will not be the boat i retire on) and will be waiting about one year to gain the funds necessary to purchase a boat (i will have about $50k for a down payment but would not like to exceed $75k for the whole boat). I currently have a Catalina 27 (which I find too small to live aboard comfortably) and i live in the Northeast... i need insulation! Maintenance is no worry... I do all my own work. Lastly, I would like to live aboard for 5-10 years max.

Ideally I would like a boat in the 40+ foot range. I've slowed the search for sloops and have begun looking more at Ketch's because they seem to offer much more storage space.

Things i would like to know...
- Am i going too large? less just seems too small...
- Is my price too low for what I would like in size?
- Will i freeze to death? it gets a max low of -10 degrees f...
- For those who have done it... is there a long adjustment period?
- Has anyone found the ideal boat of this size that offers a fair amount of living space?
- Anything I'm missing???

Let me know your opinions! My mind is made up on this, i just want to do it the right way...

Thanks!

timvg · May 12, 2010

My wife and I (and our beagle) have lived aboard for most of the 10 years we have owned our 40.5. How did I get my wife to live on a boat? It was her idea, something she always wanted to do. Our boat would cost more than $75,000, but it does make an idea liveaboard. It's very roomy, but is still relatively easy to single hand. (Autopilot becomes your best friend.) Can't comment about being in -10 degrees, but we did live on it in Seattle for 3 years.

We don't keep an abundance of "junk" onboard, as we like to actually take the boat out. We can get ready in about 20 minutes to go cruising, which is one of the best parts. We don't have to make advance plans, and if we are in the mood, we just go.

Most important item: Have a very large holding tank