Here's a quickie survey: You're on your boat, either at a marina or in an anchorage. Do you find the slapping of halyards against masts to be a) music to your ears or b) unbearable noise that makes sleeping difficult if not impossible? Feel free to explain your answers as you see fit. Pete s/v EmmieLou (Oday 322) Little Silver, NJ
- Status
Unbearable discordant noise
There was a post running around a while ago that explained why halyard slap was bad and suggested copying the post and sticking it in a plastic bag and leaving it on boats that have slapping halyards. Not that they'd read it... Many times it's folks who never come down to their boats, or never stay on them at night -- they just have NO clue.
There was a post running around a while ago that explained why halyard slap was bad and suggested copying the post and sticking it in a plastic bag and leaving it on boats that have slapping halyards. Not that they'd read it... Many times it's folks who never come down to their boats, or never stay on them at night -- they just have NO clue.
Here it is
The Romantic Sound Of Clanging Halyards Sunday, November 28, 2004 By Capt. Alan Hugenot C:Stu BoatC34The Romantic Sound Of Clanging Halyards.doc Have you ever been woken up at night while sleeping in a marina because the neighboring sailboat’s halyards were banging against the mast in the wind? If you have ever tried to sleep through this constant noise, which is like someone continuously knocking on your door, then you know the dilemma which this causes for any poor sailor trying to sleep nearby. Of course, the skipper of the offending boat is not there to hear the incessant slap, slap, slap, and he probably wants to keep those halyards ready to hoist sail as soon as he comes aboard, totally unaware that by doing so he is creating a nerve-racking noise machine. So what can you do? You can’t sleep and you are conflicted about what action to take. You know that if you go aboard his boat and swing the halyards outboard around the spreader before making them fast again that the incessant slap will stop. And, you wonder why the inconsiderate skipper did not do that before he stowed his boat. Maybe you also know that he only comes down to the marina once a month or even less to check his boat. You know he is totally unaware that you have to listen to his halyards going slap, clang, slap, clang every night. On the other hand if you go aboard his boat to fix the problem, it will actually be trespassing - not quite breaking and entering - but trespassing none the less. When he comes back to the boat, he may even get angry at the “prankster” who tangled his halyards around the spreaders, thinking “who would do such a thing, just to confound him.” He, of course, never realizing the true reason unless you tell him. Yet, from a different perspective you might only be a “good Samaritan.” For instance, if the halyard were loose and about to carry away through the top of the mast, then that same skipper would want you to quickly go aboard his boat (even though he had not given you permission) and “properly” secure it. That simple act of neighborly seamanship would save him the grief of having to go aloft to re-thread the halyard through the top of the mast. So wouldn’t it be the same thing here? His halyard is clearly wearing itself out beating against the mast, and if you will just “properly” stow it for him, then it will not wear out as quickly. Also your nerves won’t wear out as quickly either. This is no small problem. I have lived aboard for several years, in both Seattle, Wash. and San Francisco, and have also spent a night or two in nearly every marina from San Diego to Seward, Alaska. In every one there are these slapping halyards. At first you might think that a polite word to the offending skipper would solve the problem. But, a couple of times when I asked the owner of an offending boat if they could take a moment before going ashore to quiet their halyards by rigging them away from the masts, they became defensive. They acted like I was being rude for butting into their business, criticizing their seamanship. They arrogantly pointed out that they knew what they were doing, had studied proper halyard techniques, and had graduated from ASA or US Sailing. They were not going to quiet their halyards by rigging them outboard. Besides who was I to tell them anything. In one case the offending skipper said that “If they found their halyards any different than how they chose to leave them” then they would blame me for trespassing on their boat, and would report it to the marina manager. After this encounter, I could not stop the noise from his boat, and wished I had never spoken to him about it. I knew that if I had never brought it up, I could have quieted his halyards and he would not know who “fouled” his lines. Instead, I changed marinas and learned the lesson that my safest bet was to quiet all offending halyards myself, and do so without telling the owner that I was the culprit. This “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy allowed me to sleep, and several weeks later when the offending skipper turned up to sail his boat I was not there to hear his wrath about “Whoever fouled his halyards was going to catch hell.” I guess it comes down to who is more inconsiderate: Me for trespassing on his boat, or him for leaving the noisy halyard slapping against the mast. It is such a simple thing to just tie the halyards off on the shrouds, or swinging them around the spreaders. Maybe 60 seconds to quiet every halyard on the boat. Another, idea is to use a shock cord to pull them over toward the shrouds and away from the mast, and there are dozens of other ways to stop the slap, slap, slap. Of course no way am I advocating that you climb on someone’s boat and adjust their halyards. Trespassing is something I would never encourage you to do. Several times in marina parking lots I have heard novice boaters saying “Wow, listen to the clanging of the all the sailboats in the wind. Isn’t it romantic.” So maybe it is a matter of perspective, or rather ignorance of the harm that may be caused by what may be romantic to one person and pollution to another, depending upon perspective. It baffles me to no end why sailing instructors don’t teach this simple courtesy to their students. It seems that simple courtesy should always be part of every lesson for novice sailors. We live pretty close together on the water, which means we need to cultivate proper manners and respect for our fellow boaters. Learning how to rig our boat so that it does not create undue noise pollution should be part of every sailing lesson. Actually, in California the boating laws are beginning to take notice of noise pollution. Beginning in the fall of 2004 agencies will begin to enforce a new law that makes it illegal to have a power boat that is too noisy. Maybe this idea that noise pollution on the water is a crime can be stretched to include sailboats that are too noisy. Clang, slap, clang - but it’s so romantic. Yea, right.
The Romantic Sound Of Clanging Halyards Sunday, November 28, 2004 By Capt. Alan Hugenot C:Stu BoatC34The Romantic Sound Of Clanging Halyards.doc Have you ever been woken up at night while sleeping in a marina because the neighboring sailboat’s halyards were banging against the mast in the wind? If you have ever tried to sleep through this constant noise, which is like someone continuously knocking on your door, then you know the dilemma which this causes for any poor sailor trying to sleep nearby. Of course, the skipper of the offending boat is not there to hear the incessant slap, slap, slap, and he probably wants to keep those halyards ready to hoist sail as soon as he comes aboard, totally unaware that by doing so he is creating a nerve-racking noise machine. So what can you do? You can’t sleep and you are conflicted about what action to take. You know that if you go aboard his boat and swing the halyards outboard around the spreader before making them fast again that the incessant slap will stop. And, you wonder why the inconsiderate skipper did not do that before he stowed his boat. Maybe you also know that he only comes down to the marina once a month or even less to check his boat. You know he is totally unaware that you have to listen to his halyards going slap, clang, slap, clang every night. On the other hand if you go aboard his boat to fix the problem, it will actually be trespassing - not quite breaking and entering - but trespassing none the less. When he comes back to the boat, he may even get angry at the “prankster” who tangled his halyards around the spreaders, thinking “who would do such a thing, just to confound him.” He, of course, never realizing the true reason unless you tell him. Yet, from a different perspective you might only be a “good Samaritan.” For instance, if the halyard were loose and about to carry away through the top of the mast, then that same skipper would want you to quickly go aboard his boat (even though he had not given you permission) and “properly” secure it. That simple act of neighborly seamanship would save him the grief of having to go aloft to re-thread the halyard through the top of the mast. So wouldn’t it be the same thing here? His halyard is clearly wearing itself out beating against the mast, and if you will just “properly” stow it for him, then it will not wear out as quickly. Also your nerves won’t wear out as quickly either. This is no small problem. I have lived aboard for several years, in both Seattle, Wash. and San Francisco, and have also spent a night or two in nearly every marina from San Diego to Seward, Alaska. In every one there are these slapping halyards. At first you might think that a polite word to the offending skipper would solve the problem. But, a couple of times when I asked the owner of an offending boat if they could take a moment before going ashore to quiet their halyards by rigging them away from the masts, they became defensive. They acted like I was being rude for butting into their business, criticizing their seamanship. They arrogantly pointed out that they knew what they were doing, had studied proper halyard techniques, and had graduated from ASA or US Sailing. They were not going to quiet their halyards by rigging them outboard. Besides who was I to tell them anything. In one case the offending skipper said that “If they found their halyards any different than how they chose to leave them” then they would blame me for trespassing on their boat, and would report it to the marina manager. After this encounter, I could not stop the noise from his boat, and wished I had never spoken to him about it. I knew that if I had never brought it up, I could have quieted his halyards and he would not know who “fouled” his lines. Instead, I changed marinas and learned the lesson that my safest bet was to quiet all offending halyards myself, and do so without telling the owner that I was the culprit. This “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy allowed me to sleep, and several weeks later when the offending skipper turned up to sail his boat I was not there to hear his wrath about “Whoever fouled his halyards was going to catch hell.” I guess it comes down to who is more inconsiderate: Me for trespassing on his boat, or him for leaving the noisy halyard slapping against the mast. It is such a simple thing to just tie the halyards off on the shrouds, or swinging them around the spreaders. Maybe 60 seconds to quiet every halyard on the boat. Another, idea is to use a shock cord to pull them over toward the shrouds and away from the mast, and there are dozens of other ways to stop the slap, slap, slap. Of course no way am I advocating that you climb on someone’s boat and adjust their halyards. Trespassing is something I would never encourage you to do. Several times in marina parking lots I have heard novice boaters saying “Wow, listen to the clanging of the all the sailboats in the wind. Isn’t it romantic.” So maybe it is a matter of perspective, or rather ignorance of the harm that may be caused by what may be romantic to one person and pollution to another, depending upon perspective. It baffles me to no end why sailing instructors don’t teach this simple courtesy to their students. It seems that simple courtesy should always be part of every lesson for novice sailors. We live pretty close together on the water, which means we need to cultivate proper manners and respect for our fellow boaters. Learning how to rig our boat so that it does not create undue noise pollution should be part of every sailing lesson. Actually, in California the boating laws are beginning to take notice of noise pollution. Beginning in the fall of 2004 agencies will begin to enforce a new law that makes it illegal to have a power boat that is too noisy. Maybe this idea that noise pollution on the water is a crime can be stretched to include sailboats that are too noisy. Clang, slap, clang - but it’s so romantic. Yea, right.
music to my ears
I love the sound, although mine dont slap, and thats because they tend to fray on rough spots. when a thunder storm comes rolling through, the sound is incredible from all the boats in the marina. It puts me to sleep. Also note that a lot of the sounds are from halyards and ecectric wiring inside of the mast. I know that there are ways to avoid that, but thats a lot of what you are hearing. BTW... we are full time live - aboards.
I love the sound, although mine dont slap, and thats because they tend to fray on rough spots. when a thunder storm comes rolling through, the sound is incredible from all the boats in the marina. It puts me to sleep. Also note that a lot of the sounds are from halyards and ecectric wiring inside of the mast. I know that there are ways to avoid that, but thats a lot of what you are hearing. BTW... we are full time live - aboards.
Manners - Etiquette-Class...
These things I can blak out...;-) but that's just me. While there are folks who actively LOOK for 'issues' (problems) this one is legitimate and easily cured by taking a halyard to the boom end or wrapping round mid boom. Many folks use bungees to the stays & shrounds, and this usually works well, some rust or worse. There are some 'new' bungees being sold now, I just bought some and use em for sail gaskets etc, that are quite strong, hard plastic ended, with aluminum crabiners on each end. At the very least they 'look' better than the ol "hooks" and don't rust either. About five bucks each, I bought mine at Osh hardware.
These things I can blak out...;-) but that's just me. While there are folks who actively LOOK for 'issues' (problems) this one is legitimate and easily cured by taking a halyard to the boom end or wrapping round mid boom. Many folks use bungees to the stays & shrounds, and this usually works well, some rust or worse. There are some 'new' bungees being sold now, I just bought some and use em for sail gaskets etc, that are quite strong, hard plastic ended, with aluminum crabiners on each end. At the very least they 'look' better than the ol "hooks" and don't rust either. About five bucks each, I bought mine at Osh hardware.
I don't like it, but...
I don't like the sound; if the offending halyard is in the distance, I can tune it out like anything else, but that doesn't help if its up close or there are a lot of them. Not only is the sound annoying in and of itself, to me it also represents a lack of courtesy and careless seamanship. Having said all that, the Admiral and I entertained some first time sailors for an evening cruise on Saturday, and they both remarked on the sound of my neighbors' slapping halyards as pleasantly evocative of marinas, boating and the summer in general. Oh well.
I don't like the sound; if the offending halyard is in the distance, I can tune it out like anything else, but that doesn't help if its up close or there are a lot of them. Not only is the sound annoying in and of itself, to me it also represents a lack of courtesy and careless seamanship. Having said all that, the Admiral and I entertained some first time sailors for an evening cruise on Saturday, and they both remarked on the sound of my neighbors' slapping halyards as pleasantly evocative of marinas, boating and the summer in general. Oh well.
Both pleasant and unpleasant
We secure our halyards from banging to keep things quiet for both us and our neighbors. Sometimes, in light winds, the light tapping or ringing from nearby boats can be part of the charm of a marina. On the other hand, high wind days can change that wind chime sound to an unpleasant series of rapid loud whacks. When the wind is just so, we get this from one of our dock mates and, you guessed it, it never happens when they are aboard.
We secure our halyards from banging to keep things quiet for both us and our neighbors. Sometimes, in light winds, the light tapping or ringing from nearby boats can be part of the charm of a marina. On the other hand, high wind days can change that wind chime sound to an unpleasant series of rapid loud whacks. When the wind is just so, we get this from one of our dock mates and, you guessed it, it never happens when they are aboard.
When "whap" devolved to "slap"
I read a comment in a book from a long-time sailor who recalled that in the era of wooden spars he found the halyard-whapping sound against the wood to be pleasant, but when aluminum came along it became ugly. I certainly would not have thought of that, having no experience listening to a marina full of wooden spars being whapped by their rigging, but it is an interesting point--kind of like trying to describe to your grandchildren the satisfying feel and sound of using a wooden baseball bat rather than an aluminum tube. The cure for all this, of course, is for the sparmakers to "tune" their spars to some pleasant pitch, say a perfect "c", or at least tune them to different major pitches so the sound of a whole boatyard would be a series of chords rather than a cacaphony...
I read a comment in a book from a long-time sailor who recalled that in the era of wooden spars he found the halyard-whapping sound against the wood to be pleasant, but when aluminum came along it became ugly. I certainly would not have thought of that, having no experience listening to a marina full of wooden spars being whapped by their rigging, but it is an interesting point--kind of like trying to describe to your grandchildren the satisfying feel and sound of using a wooden baseball bat rather than an aluminum tube. The cure for all this, of course, is for the sparmakers to "tune" their spars to some pleasant pitch, say a perfect "c", or at least tune them to different major pitches so the sound of a whole boatyard would be a series of chords rather than a cacaphony...
Rich,
funny you should mention the sound of the halyards "banging" on the masts. True the woodene masts had a sound all to themselves. Just as wooden sailboats have a ride unlike fiberglass boats of today. A sound and ride few will ever experience.I relate the ride of a wooden sailboat to that of a cast iron tub verses that of being on a cork.One plows its way through and the other floats on it.Soon folks will be complaining about the waves on the beach.And the slapping of the waves on the hull of the sailboat. Just like the traffic and horns and sirens in a city. It's all part of the life style.One nice thing about life styles is that you can change it anytime you want. Keep it up, Ctskip
funny you should mention the sound of the halyards "banging" on the masts. True the woodene masts had a sound all to themselves. Just as wooden sailboats have a ride unlike fiberglass boats of today. A sound and ride few will ever experience.I relate the ride of a wooden sailboat to that of a cast iron tub verses that of being on a cork.One plows its way through and the other floats on it.Soon folks will be complaining about the waves on the beach.And the slapping of the waves on the hull of the sailboat. Just like the traffic and horns and sirens in a city. It's all part of the life style.One nice thing about life styles is that you can change it anytime you want. Keep it up, Ctskip
Whaps and slaps
I tie my halyards off, but I haven't done anything about the wires that bang around inside the mast. Up to this year, there was a small cat boat in an adjacent slip that belonged to some neurosurgeon, and he was never there, and the banging, wooden mast and all, now that I think of it, was VERY unpleasant during the sleeping hours. Legend has it that one of my neighbors was so offended he duct-taped the entirety of the rigging, but to no avail. Wooden mast and halyard whap romantic?-NOT! Bill and Pat, O28 (Avail)/O40, New London, CT
I tie my halyards off, but I haven't done anything about the wires that bang around inside the mast. Up to this year, there was a small cat boat in an adjacent slip that belonged to some neurosurgeon, and he was never there, and the banging, wooden mast and all, now that I think of it, was VERY unpleasant during the sleeping hours. Legend has it that one of my neighbors was so offended he duct-taped the entirety of the rigging, but to no avail. Wooden mast and halyard whap romantic?-NOT! Bill and Pat, O28 (Avail)/O40, New London, CT
That tinging sound...
You stated a good dialogue here Pete...;-) Skip, You are sure right about the complainers nowadays, geeze, expeditions can't stand complainers but the modern thinking is to complain about anything then brag on how fragile you are, but for folks that live near a marina or are sleeping aboard the slapping of halyards against a hollow aluminum echo chamber can be irritating, not so bad when you are moving and all in tension. Bill, those in-mast wire to rope halyards (with the 'meat hooks' that implale you hands) are likely the worst sound, ping, ping, rinnnnng! I always changed mine, they might gain you 1/10 of a knot, and they are nasty. Either change them, the blocks are normally a double v to take either wire or rope, or you can fill the mast with styrofoam! I ahve not done this, no liability here, but this is no joke, people do this...;-)
You stated a good dialogue here Pete...;-) Skip, You are sure right about the complainers nowadays, geeze, expeditions can't stand complainers but the modern thinking is to complain about anything then brag on how fragile you are, but for folks that live near a marina or are sleeping aboard the slapping of halyards against a hollow aluminum echo chamber can be irritating, not so bad when you are moving and all in tension. Bill, those in-mast wire to rope halyards (with the 'meat hooks' that implale you hands) are likely the worst sound, ping, ping, rinnnnng! I always changed mine, they might gain you 1/10 of a knot, and they are nasty. Either change them, the blocks are normally a double v to take either wire or rope, or you can fill the mast with styrofoam! I ahve not done this, no liability here, but this is no joke, people do this...;-)
I can't Hear 'em
When I sleep on board, there's the stupid CARP that suck on the hull of my boat all night. They make this loud almost knocking sound that drowns everything out. Once I get my letter complaining to the parks and wildlife department composed, I'm sure they'll do something about it. After that, I'll probably be bothered by the halyards, and start working on that issue. Until then though, I've got other issues to worry about, so it doesn't bother me ... yet
When I sleep on board, there's the stupid CARP that suck on the hull of my boat all night. They make this loud almost knocking sound that drowns everything out. Once I get my letter complaining to the parks and wildlife department composed, I'm sure they'll do something about it. After that, I'll probably be bothered by the halyards, and start working on that issue. Until then though, I've got other issues to worry about, so it doesn't bother me ... yet
Music for the most part
Having started the thread, and seeing what others have to say, I guess it's time to put in my .02. Generally, the sound of the halyard slapping the mast doesn't bother me -- certainly not to the point of keeping me awake, or waking me up from a sound sleep. Part of it is just getting used to it. I've found that the beginning of the sailing season, after living without the sound for several months, I notice the slap more. But what's likely to wake me up (if anything) is the noticeable change from my Sealy PosturPedic mattress at home to the 4" foam slab on the boat. Once awake, sure, I'll hear the slapping of the halyard(s), but like I said, it's not going to keep me awake for long, if at all. As someone said, it's like living in the city. Friends and co-workers of mine who do say that they barely hear things like horns, sirens, etc. At least not to the extent that others might. Same with halyards slapping on masts. After awhile, it just becomes part of the aural landscape -- and something that's easily dealt with if it gets to be too annoying. I do like the idea of "tuning" a mast so that the slap registers a more musical tone. After all, few people object to the sound of a big metallic wind chime, or the gong on a buoy. It can't be that difficult to manufacture a mast that produces a middle C, or a 440-hz A. Interesting to see how the opinions on this topic have divided, don't ya think? Pete s/v EmmieLou (Oday 322) Little Silver, NJ
Having started the thread, and seeing what others have to say, I guess it's time to put in my .02. Generally, the sound of the halyard slapping the mast doesn't bother me -- certainly not to the point of keeping me awake, or waking me up from a sound sleep. Part of it is just getting used to it. I've found that the beginning of the sailing season, after living without the sound for several months, I notice the slap more. But what's likely to wake me up (if anything) is the noticeable change from my Sealy PosturPedic mattress at home to the 4" foam slab on the boat. Once awake, sure, I'll hear the slapping of the halyard(s), but like I said, it's not going to keep me awake for long, if at all. As someone said, it's like living in the city. Friends and co-workers of mine who do say that they barely hear things like horns, sirens, etc. At least not to the extent that others might. Same with halyards slapping on masts. After awhile, it just becomes part of the aural landscape -- and something that's easily dealt with if it gets to be too annoying. I do like the idea of "tuning" a mast so that the slap registers a more musical tone. After all, few people object to the sound of a big metallic wind chime, or the gong on a buoy. It can't be that difficult to manufacture a mast that produces a middle C, or a 440-hz A. Interesting to see how the opinions on this topic have divided, don't ya think? Pete s/v EmmieLou (Oday 322) Little Silver, NJ
Wind chimes annoy me so tuning doesn't
appeal, used to bother me but I tune it out now. But speaking of the sucking carp, can't remember the last time I heard the "snapping shrimp", anyone else ?
appeal, used to bother me but I tune it out now. But speaking of the sucking carp, can't remember the last time I heard the "snapping shrimp", anyone else ?
Devil's Harp
That's what it's called. And I don't mind it...for a while...but then it becomes really annoying. And then there's the squeak of the dock bumpers between my boat and the boat we're rafted up with...at 1AM.
That's what it's called. And I don't mind it...for a while...but then it becomes really annoying. And then there's the squeak of the dock bumpers between my boat and the boat we're rafted up with...at 1AM.
To me, it all depends on...
The wind speed. If there is a minor gale blowing and the halyards are tight, they start to vibrate and then make the sound like a very fast dat-dat-dat-dat-dat. That annoys me endlessly. But if the wind is light and there is an occational slap of a halyard on a mast, I find it very relaxing.
The wind speed. If there is a minor gale blowing and the halyards are tight, they start to vibrate and then make the sound like a very fast dat-dat-dat-dat-dat. That annoys me endlessly. But if the wind is light and there is an occational slap of a halyard on a mast, I find it very relaxing.
Internal wiring
Halyards slapping and tat-a-tatting don’t bother me. I keep mine bungied out for the neighbor’s sake. However, the wiring for MY lights and antenna drive me crazy(er) when I’m trying to sleep at anchor. Here’s a handy hint / cheap fix I got from a friend who’s been around. Plastic electrical ties! I have external halyards but the wires are inside the mast. Putting the electrical ties every 6 feet or so and leaving the long tag end on the tie stops the wires from slapping on the inside of the mast. Other people have used expansion foam or sponges, but these cause real grief when you need to add or change a wire. It works great and costs nearly nothing. If you like it, say “thanx Gord May” Later, eh! Ferg
Halyards slapping and tat-a-tatting don’t bother me. I keep mine bungied out for the neighbor’s sake. However, the wiring for MY lights and antenna drive me crazy(er) when I’m trying to sleep at anchor. Here’s a handy hint / cheap fix I got from a friend who’s been around. Plastic electrical ties! I have external halyards but the wires are inside the mast. Putting the electrical ties every 6 feet or so and leaving the long tag end on the tie stops the wires from slapping on the inside of the mast. Other people have used expansion foam or sponges, but these cause real grief when you need to add or change a wire. It works great and costs nearly nothing. If you like it, say “thanx Gord May” Later, eh! Ferg
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