Hello all, I've been reading a lot of articles on safety at sea, and I'm curious... How much information do you pass on to guests when you invite them aboard your boat for an afternoon sail? Do you give them a complete check-out, or do you just tell them where the life jackets are and hope they can figure out how to use them? Here are a few things I try to pass on, with instructions for use if necessary: -- Location of fire extinguishers -- Location of PFD's -- Location of all hand-holds ...and things that are NOT hand holds -- Location of VHF -- Location of Flares, smoke signals, etc. -- Location of electrical service panels -- Location of ship's papers -- Location of anchors I also warn them to keep an eye to the boom (it's called that for a reason ;o), and also to keep an eye on deck hardware (i.e. the shackle on the jib sheets). In the case of my smaller boat (an H25), I also try to make sure that at least 2 persons on board know how to operate the outboard (raise/lower, start/stop, gear selection)- Just in case I'M the one who goes over. What does everyone else pass on? --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
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Ooops, almost forgot...
...The golden rule- "One hand for yourself, and one for the boat!" (I also forgot to pass on the location of the adult beverage container opener. Hmmm, I must be slipping...
--J
...The golden rule- "One hand for yourself, and one for the boat!" (I also forgot to pass on the location of the adult beverage container opener. Hmmm, I must be slipping...
--JSounds right to me, Jon.
The real issue is how much of it a raw crew will remember when the s--- hits the fan.
The real issue is how much of it a raw crew will remember when the s--- hits the fan.
Crew instruction
Jan.4, 2000 Dear Jon, I have to admit to being a little fanatical in the safety area. Never mind all of the good reasons why, someday I'll tell you the story about the time I stepped backwards off the deck to admire my work... When we have guests I always do the safety drill the same way regardless of the skill level of the crew, because various boats have different routines and it is a mistake to assume the guests know what they are doing, even if they claim otherwise. Actually, especially if they claim otherwise. The drill starts with a tour of the boat above and below decks pointing out the same things you do Jon and emphasizing safety equipment including the epirb, the safe zones on deck, and perils of the boom. One hand for yourself and one for the boat is the rule, not the exception that we also emphasize. I also emphasize correct radio procedure in case an emergency call needs to be made and have a crib sheet that I keep in the chart table to help out with this if a person unfamiliar with radio procedure has to make the call. It gets shown to the guests so they can use it and left on the chart table by the radio when underway. We show people how the radio works. It is amazing how many people don't realize that you have to let go of the little button on the mike to listen. We also drill everybody on the correct uses of the head. I can't emphasize enough how important that has proven to be. Remind me to tell you the story about fixing the leaking, overflowing head while making a passage in a rolling sea across the Straight of Georgia sometime. Makes me green just remembering it. Once we are underway I put a quest on the wheel and we do a run through of a man overboard drill, complete with a return to our original position to do a dry run recovery. How to use the retrieval equipment is emphasized. I do this casually since there is no need to alarm anybody, and I have found that people feel much more relaxed knowing what is going on and how to handle an emergency. I also think it helps them to relax if they know that we know what we are doing. The last thing I tell them is that if either I or She Who Must Be Obeyed start barking orders they can bet there is a damn good reason for it and their job is to jump to it and argue with me about it afterwards if they don't like it. I'm not concerned about giving people a warm and fuzzy feeling when it comes to who is in charge and how to handle themselves in an emergency. If they don't like it I remind them we can always resort to a touch of the lash to improve morale. Lastly, although I may serve drinks to guests I don't imbibe until the hook is down. That may seem a bit strict, and I suspect that it is a holdover from my instructor days, but I'm more comfortable knowing I'm sober and that my judgement cannot be questioned in that regard in the event of an emergency. Not having a drink does not stop me from having fun sailing with my guests. I also think emphasizing safety helps guests appreciate that sailing is an inherently hazardous activity and this causes them to be a little more careful moving around, and that reduces the risk of an accident, even though they will still happen. I know all of this may seem a bit much, but we have it down to a routine and with She helping it moves along quickly and we still seem to have a good deal of fun. Fair winds, Brian Pickton of BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
Jan.4, 2000 Dear Jon, I have to admit to being a little fanatical in the safety area. Never mind all of the good reasons why, someday I'll tell you the story about the time I stepped backwards off the deck to admire my work... When we have guests I always do the safety drill the same way regardless of the skill level of the crew, because various boats have different routines and it is a mistake to assume the guests know what they are doing, even if they claim otherwise. Actually, especially if they claim otherwise. The drill starts with a tour of the boat above and below decks pointing out the same things you do Jon and emphasizing safety equipment including the epirb, the safe zones on deck, and perils of the boom. One hand for yourself and one for the boat is the rule, not the exception that we also emphasize. I also emphasize correct radio procedure in case an emergency call needs to be made and have a crib sheet that I keep in the chart table to help out with this if a person unfamiliar with radio procedure has to make the call. It gets shown to the guests so they can use it and left on the chart table by the radio when underway. We show people how the radio works. It is amazing how many people don't realize that you have to let go of the little button on the mike to listen. We also drill everybody on the correct uses of the head. I can't emphasize enough how important that has proven to be. Remind me to tell you the story about fixing the leaking, overflowing head while making a passage in a rolling sea across the Straight of Georgia sometime. Makes me green just remembering it. Once we are underway I put a quest on the wheel and we do a run through of a man overboard drill, complete with a return to our original position to do a dry run recovery. How to use the retrieval equipment is emphasized. I do this casually since there is no need to alarm anybody, and I have found that people feel much more relaxed knowing what is going on and how to handle an emergency. I also think it helps them to relax if they know that we know what we are doing. The last thing I tell them is that if either I or She Who Must Be Obeyed start barking orders they can bet there is a damn good reason for it and their job is to jump to it and argue with me about it afterwards if they don't like it. I'm not concerned about giving people a warm and fuzzy feeling when it comes to who is in charge and how to handle themselves in an emergency. If they don't like it I remind them we can always resort to a touch of the lash to improve morale. Lastly, although I may serve drinks to guests I don't imbibe until the hook is down. That may seem a bit strict, and I suspect that it is a holdover from my instructor days, but I'm more comfortable knowing I'm sober and that my judgement cannot be questioned in that regard in the event of an emergency. Not having a drink does not stop me from having fun sailing with my guests. I also think emphasizing safety helps guests appreciate that sailing is an inherently hazardous activity and this causes them to be a little more careful moving around, and that reduces the risk of an accident, even though they will still happen. I know all of this may seem a bit much, but we have it down to a routine and with She helping it moves along quickly and we still seem to have a good deal of fun. Fair winds, Brian Pickton of BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
Like Brian. . . .
I worry about new crew. I created a small booklet that I give to new guests a week or so before an outing. It gives them a chance to back out if they don't like the rules. Then I review the material when they come aboard.
I worry about new crew. I created a small booklet that I give to new guests a week or so before an outing. It gives them a chance to back out if they don't like the rules. Then I review the material when they come aboard.
You do that for a new sailor on a day sail?!?
Jon, it takes time for people to learn things. Your list makes sense for somewhat experienced crew on a longer trip. But in my view, it does little good to tell the new sailor where the VHF, control panels, flares, anchors, and ship's papers are. They don't know when to use these, nor how. And you're not going to teach them in an hour. For a first day sail with a non-experienced sailor, I find out if they've ever been on a sailboat before, and if not, explain to them a little about what we'll do and how it will feel. For safety, I pres the points a new sailor needs to keep themself from getting hurt: (a) staying on the boat, (b) lifevests, (c) being careful where they stand or sit, and how they walk, and (d) listening to what more experienced sailors tell them. During the sail, I'll have them do small things, working up to more complex things. People learn by watching and doing. The truth of the matter is that most brand new sailors will be little help if a problem arises. Even in an emergency, you must take into account people's skill levels.
Jon, it takes time for people to learn things. Your list makes sense for somewhat experienced crew on a longer trip. But in my view, it does little good to tell the new sailor where the VHF, control panels, flares, anchors, and ship's papers are. They don't know when to use these, nor how. And you're not going to teach them in an hour. For a first day sail with a non-experienced sailor, I find out if they've ever been on a sailboat before, and if not, explain to them a little about what we'll do and how it will feel. For safety, I pres the points a new sailor needs to keep themself from getting hurt: (a) staying on the boat, (b) lifevests, (c) being careful where they stand or sit, and how they walk, and (d) listening to what more experienced sailors tell them. During the sail, I'll have them do small things, working up to more complex things. People learn by watching and doing. The truth of the matter is that most brand new sailors will be little help if a problem arises. Even in an emergency, you must take into account people's skill levels.
Somthing I Do
While I do not require folks to wear their PFDs (unless it gets nasty) I do ask them to try them on, size them properly, and to place them somwhere where they will know which one is theirs if we do need to don them in a hurry. One of these days i will tag each one with a different ribbon to make identification easier.
While I do not require folks to wear their PFDs (unless it gets nasty) I do ask them to try them on, size them properly, and to place them somwhere where they will know which one is theirs if we do need to don them in a hurry. One of these days i will tag each one with a different ribbon to make identification easier.
More than just safety...
Your guests should be shown how things work...like the toilet (and what not to put down it)...where the toilet paper is...how a hand water pump works..Locations of light switches and how they work (boat builders can find some really arcane ways to turn lights on and off)...explain to 'em why it's a bad idea to set a glass full of anything down on a counter or table and leave it there... iow, the little things they need to know, not only for their own comfort, but to keep them from damaging your boat or themselves.
Your guests should be shown how things work...like the toilet (and what not to put down it)...where the toilet paper is...how a hand water pump works..Locations of light switches and how they work (boat builders can find some really arcane ways to turn lights on and off)...explain to 'em why it's a bad idea to set a glass full of anything down on a counter or table and leave it there... iow, the little things they need to know, not only for their own comfort, but to keep them from damaging your boat or themselves.
I only have two rules
1) The Captain's word is law & must be obeyed. 2) Don't fall off cuz I ain't coming back! Obviously I would, but this impresses upon them the importance of being careful. I tell them that others might warn against putting their body parts between the boat & something hard (winch drums, docks, etc) but I encourage it. Hey, body parts can always grow back - boats can never be replaced! They usually get a funny look on their faces and then realize that I'm being more than a little facetious. I show them where things are, emphasizing the location of the PFDs. I also give them a briefing on the basics of what to do if I fall overboard. Show them where the radio is & I also have a little cheat sheet right next to it - although I tell them if they're flustered to forget about etiquette & just blurt out what the problem is (ie: "Help, the captain of the boat just fell off & I don't know what to do"). This'll get help there in a hurry! It's so fun to take folks out for the first time. They get really nervous taking the tiller but I just remind them that they'd really have to try to hurt the boat. I think that puts things in perspective and allows them to learn & have fun at the same time. LaDonna
1) The Captain's word is law & must be obeyed. 2) Don't fall off cuz I ain't coming back! Obviously I would, but this impresses upon them the importance of being careful. I tell them that others might warn against putting their body parts between the boat & something hard (winch drums, docks, etc) but I encourage it. Hey, body parts can always grow back - boats can never be replaced! They usually get a funny look on their faces and then realize that I'm being more than a little facetious. I show them where things are, emphasizing the location of the PFDs. I also give them a briefing on the basics of what to do if I fall overboard. Show them where the radio is & I also have a little cheat sheet right next to it - although I tell them if they're flustered to forget about etiquette & just blurt out what the problem is (ie: "Help, the captain of the boat just fell off & I don't know what to do"). This'll get help there in a hurry! It's so fun to take folks out for the first time. They get really nervous taking the tiller but I just remind them that they'd really have to try to hurt the boat. I think that puts things in perspective and allows them to learn & have fun at the same time. LaDonna
'Guests' and 'Crew'
We draw a big line between 'guests' and 'crew'. Guests are there simply to experience and enjoy the joys of sailing. Crew are there to SHARE those joys with us. With guests we discuss the following: -Sailboats heel. It's normal. And at a 30 degree heel you will swear that it's going to tip over. It won't. (You'd be amazed at the panic this discussion saves when you hit the first close-hauled gust). -Boom equals guillotine. Don't lose your head. -What a PFD is and how to put it on, including practice in doing so. If the guest is under 15 years (negotiable a year or two either way), it stays on. -How to properly use the MSD. (this discussion led to our daughter, her first night sleeping on the boat, having 'head dreams' about water gushing out of the head and sinking the boat!). -The foredeck is 'crew only'; guests stay in the cockpit. -Awareness that we do have rehearsed MOB procedures, but no details. -If we ask guests to do something, no questions or arguement. -We have adult beverages on board. We will all enjoy them AFTER we arrive at the destination (too Captain Bligh?? We don't think so.) We classify 'crew' as someone that we KNOW has some direct sailing knowledge and skill (we have crewed with people who claimed this, but as we found out in a tight moment......). With 'crew', who we will expect to share duties with us, we start with a detailed tour of the boat beginning with thru-hull location and going through all on-board sailing procedures as we practice them. Carl and Juliana Dupre s/v 'Syzygy'
We draw a big line between 'guests' and 'crew'. Guests are there simply to experience and enjoy the joys of sailing. Crew are there to SHARE those joys with us. With guests we discuss the following: -Sailboats heel. It's normal. And at a 30 degree heel you will swear that it's going to tip over. It won't. (You'd be amazed at the panic this discussion saves when you hit the first close-hauled gust). -Boom equals guillotine. Don't lose your head. -What a PFD is and how to put it on, including practice in doing so. If the guest is under 15 years (negotiable a year or two either way), it stays on. -How to properly use the MSD. (this discussion led to our daughter, her first night sleeping on the boat, having 'head dreams' about water gushing out of the head and sinking the boat!). -The foredeck is 'crew only'; guests stay in the cockpit. -Awareness that we do have rehearsed MOB procedures, but no details. -If we ask guests to do something, no questions or arguement. -We have adult beverages on board. We will all enjoy them AFTER we arrive at the destination (too Captain Bligh?? We don't think so.) We classify 'crew' as someone that we KNOW has some direct sailing knowledge and skill (we have crewed with people who claimed this, but as we found out in a tight moment......). With 'crew', who we will expect to share duties with us, we start with a detailed tour of the boat beginning with thru-hull location and going through all on-board sailing procedures as we practice them. Carl and Juliana Dupre s/v 'Syzygy'
There is legal distinction between guest and crew
You have more liability to guests. And they have fewer obligations to you. This is a legal issue that comes into play when someone from your boat breaks their hip stepping onto dock. Everyone on our boat is "crew." That might include someone who has never before stepped on a boat. Even that one is still sharing the adventure, learning what to do, and obligated to perform whatever duties come along with that. One of the captain's duties, of course, is to make sure that crew duties are appropriate to their skill level. There is a tall ladder of skill levels. Maybe the lowest rung is "crew, rank greenhorn." But on our boat, it is still "crew." And the highest rung? I can't see that from my rung. I can see only the next three or four above me.
You have more liability to guests. And they have fewer obligations to you. This is a legal issue that comes into play when someone from your boat breaks their hip stepping onto dock. Everyone on our boat is "crew." That might include someone who has never before stepped on a boat. Even that one is still sharing the adventure, learning what to do, and obligated to perform whatever duties come along with that. One of the captain's duties, of course, is to make sure that crew duties are appropriate to their skill level. There is a tall ladder of skill levels. Maybe the lowest rung is "crew, rank greenhorn." But on our boat, it is still "crew." And the highest rung? I can't see that from my rung. I can see only the next three or four above me.
Shoes, shoes, shoes!
I never knew what all the fuss about clear souled shoes was about until I had my own boat. one time I allowed a couple on board for the weekend with black souled shoes. I scrubbed for days!!!!!!!!! Lesson: Always remind guests/crew to bring clear souled shoes. As sooner or later someone will forget, we now have spares on board.
I never knew what all the fuss about clear souled shoes was about until I had my own boat. one time I allowed a couple on board for the weekend with black souled shoes. I scrubbed for days!!!!!!!!! Lesson: Always remind guests/crew to bring clear souled shoes. As sooner or later someone will forget, we now have spares on board.
My soul is clear. My soles are non-marking.
And our boat's sole is traditional holly veneer. The floors are the horizontal members that stiffen the boat and support the sole.
And our boat's sole is traditional holly veneer. The floors are the horizontal members that stiffen the boat and support the sole.
Guest/Crew Liability
'Been There' - I assume when you're talking about the guest/crew distinction that you are extrapolating from either the guest/licensee distinction in land based torts claims, or from the differences between seamen and passengers aboad vessels. In any event, I don't think it much matters what you label the folk you bring aboard your boat from a liability perspective. The land based distinction is simply not in play aboard a boat, or even on the dock, and may not even matter in the parking lot if the injury occured while on the way to the boat or on the way back. The seamen/passenger disinction is only meaninful if you are paying your crew, and your vessel is not exempted by the assorted maritime statues; pleasure vessels are so exempted except as pertains to true paid crew members. The owner of a boat is under an absolute, non-delegable, non-waiveable obligation to provide a seaworthy vessel at the commencement of a voyage. Failure to do so results in absolute liability to those aboard in the event of an accident, if the unseaworthy condition contributes to the to accident or to the accrual of damage. The chain of laws and cases that leads to this result is varried dependant on the category of person injured, but the result is the same for each (within the limitations of the Jones Act, and Longshore acts.) Liability for injury not resulting from unseaworthiness can be contracted out of through a bill of lading for freight, or contract for the carriage of passengers, but only in so far as there is a true exchange of value involved, so again this is a provision that really only applies to working vessels. Your best bet to limit liability is to ensure that your boat is truly well found. Seaworthiness is a relative concept meaning reasonably fit for the purpose to which it is bent. Set your boat up a slightly worse day than you think you'll ever see, and you'll meet that test. Then, inform your passengers that you intend to invoke a limitation fund, limited to the value of the boat, in the event of an injury and that their decision to come aboard is based on acceptance thereof. You won't be avoiding liability, but you will be limiting the extent to which you can be hurt by a damage award. Or you can do what I do, be a starving student with no real assets, and put ownership of your boat in your girlfriend's name. Justin - O'day Owners' Web - Judgement Prood and Loving it.
'Been There' - I assume when you're talking about the guest/crew distinction that you are extrapolating from either the guest/licensee distinction in land based torts claims, or from the differences between seamen and passengers aboad vessels. In any event, I don't think it much matters what you label the folk you bring aboard your boat from a liability perspective. The land based distinction is simply not in play aboard a boat, or even on the dock, and may not even matter in the parking lot if the injury occured while on the way to the boat or on the way back. The seamen/passenger disinction is only meaninful if you are paying your crew, and your vessel is not exempted by the assorted maritime statues; pleasure vessels are so exempted except as pertains to true paid crew members. The owner of a boat is under an absolute, non-delegable, non-waiveable obligation to provide a seaworthy vessel at the commencement of a voyage. Failure to do so results in absolute liability to those aboard in the event of an accident, if the unseaworthy condition contributes to the to accident or to the accrual of damage. The chain of laws and cases that leads to this result is varried dependant on the category of person injured, but the result is the same for each (within the limitations of the Jones Act, and Longshore acts.) Liability for injury not resulting from unseaworthiness can be contracted out of through a bill of lading for freight, or contract for the carriage of passengers, but only in so far as there is a true exchange of value involved, so again this is a provision that really only applies to working vessels. Your best bet to limit liability is to ensure that your boat is truly well found. Seaworthiness is a relative concept meaning reasonably fit for the purpose to which it is bent. Set your boat up a slightly worse day than you think you'll ever see, and you'll meet that test. Then, inform your passengers that you intend to invoke a limitation fund, limited to the value of the boat, in the event of an injury and that their decision to come aboard is based on acceptance thereof. You won't be avoiding liability, but you will be limiting the extent to which you can be hurt by a damage award. Or you can do what I do, be a starving student with no real assets, and put ownership of your boat in your girlfriend's name. Justin - O'day Owners' Web - Judgement Prood and Loving it.
Boiler Plate?
Sounds like we need to give a safety briefing to all aboard with a post test to insure comprehension and have some sort of liability disclaimer on the back. Or we could just drown all the lawyers.
Sounds like we need to give a safety briefing to all aboard with a post test to insure comprehension and have some sort of liability disclaimer on the back. Or we could just drown all the lawyers.
New Thread: Submit Your Lawyer Jokes
What do you have when you have a lawyer burried up to the neck in sand? Not quite enough sand. Please don't drown me, I'm not a lawyer yet. Justin - Hiding out in Maine from the hoards of Lawyer thirsty sailors everywhere.
What do you have when you have a lawyer burried up to the neck in sand? Not quite enough sand. Please don't drown me, I'm not a lawyer yet. Justin - Hiding out in Maine from the hoards of Lawyer thirsty sailors everywhere.
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