The changing dynamics of sailing clubs

Meriachee · Oct 30, 2015

At the most fundamental level, that hunk of fiberglass tied up the slip is revenue, and it doesn't likely matter one iota to the bank that's holding the mortgage on the marina.
Racing programs are built by people, not boats, and my phrf brings equality to that sled one slip over, even though I have to spend an extra 1/2 hour putting stuff away before we go out. The boat doesn't care one way or another. (although it does make itself heard when you push it too hard!)

Maine Sail · Oct 30, 2015

Scubagirl62 said:
I been sailing for many years and first learned to sail at the local "yacht club". This is on a large inland lake. We just became members of this same club and have found a new dynamic, the cruiser, that seems to be the bane of the racing one designs.

This is PATHETIC and is possibly why sailing in general is declining. A bunch of Ahab's who can't even get along with other sailors if they don't think exactly the same... The cruiser should be just as welcomed as the racer but sadly this is not an isolated example.

Scubagirl62 said:
We own three boats, two one designs and a cruiser. We only have the cruiser moored at the club.

Until now I didn't understand the issues plaguing sailing clubs with cruisers taking up memberships and the decline in the sport of sailboat racing.
I would like to know if this is a systematic problem in all sailing clubs?

If this is what the racers have you believing then it is even sadder. Cruisers are NOT why racing is in decline. It is in decline because of exactly what you posted and this level of ignorance and elitism can certainly play a role.

Our club is about 50/50 cruiser to racer, with lots who do both, but there is a decline in racing and we are seeing it in some one design classes.

I have heard now on numerous occasions the reasons for folks getting out of racing is the "a-holes". Apparently the 2% of Captain Ahab's can ruin it for the 98% like anything else. I have never heard of a racer getting out of racing because of a "cruiser"...

We are also seeing a steep decline in organized cruise events and have trended towards less "organized" one nighter meet ups instead. The under 50 generation is simply not participating in the one or two week cruise events to any decent degree. I suspect the organized team sports trend in this country is a big part of that blame. My 8 year old nephew is a prime example playing soccer year round, traveling and playing5-6 days per week on top of ski racing & Opti racing. My brothers family is lucky to get out on the boat three weekends per year.

For racing the second highest reason I hear is "time".... I have never heard "A cruiser caused me to get out of racing". Since when have yacht clubs only been about racing anyway? If they were they might be called a Yacht Racing Club not just a Yacht Club.. Oh and here's an eye opener we have LOTS of power boaters too.

Weekend racing has taken the biggest hit around here with declining enrollments but weeknight racing is still pretty strong, though some classes are in steep decline while some others are growing. One of our one design fleets has shrunk but another class has gone from 0-22 boats in just a few years.

Overall I would say racing is definitely on the decline in the North East, but so is sailing in general. We should be more worried about the sailors jumping ship for what we call "day boating" mostly comprising center consoles etc., and power boats mostly.

A good friend owns both a center console and a J boat. The main bulkhead on the J-Boat failed this year during a race and he is likely not coming back to sailing next season. Another one bites the dust to "day boating"....

Brian S · Oct 30, 2015

I think the overall trend is decreasing club membership overall. Our club is split with 2 different membership fees, $50 for a cruising membership, and $100 for racing. We average about 100 cruisers and 50 racers. This is mainly because our 2 one design classes have higher expenses with the committee pontoon boat and Carolina Skiff chase boat. I should note we have no clubhouse or other property. Over my few years with the club, I see a decline in membership overall. I definitely see a serious lack of participation in our cruising members. I don't even know who they all are, and I've been the RC of Cruising for the past 2 years.

We are on a small inland lake, about 2 1/2 hours from the Chesapeake, and maybe 2 hours from Barnegat Bay in NJ. I think we have a significant age-related drain to the Chesapeake. Although, I'm not entirely sure it's retirees headed to Chessie, because I've seen younger folk "size out" to Chessie. Our lake marina allows 24' max. I've seen quite a few folks with 23-24' boats trailer them down to the northern Chessie for vacation, and then wind up staying or buying even bigger boats to stay on Chessie. (Barnegat is not quite as nice for sailing, as it is overall shallower than Chessie.)

There is a definite problem of cruisers and racers mixing. On the one hand, racers are like dogs - they form a pack every weekend, and sail together because that's what they have to do in order to race. Cruisers are like cats - they hit the lake and scatter. Scheduling cruising events is truly like herding cats, and can be very disappointing in low attendance numbers. Cruisers seem intimidated by racers, even though the only difference between cruisers and racers is that racers are consistently trying to beat each other in a proscribed area. Basically, racers are just like cruisers - people who love sailing, and talking about sailing, and hanging out with sailors. So the disconnect bothers me. Racers don't tend to mix with the cruisers at events, because of a few reasons - most racers get 1 day of the weekend free to do sailing, and that means racing. And our best attended cruising events, monthly full moon raft-ups in a cove, are not easy to attend with a Flying Scot or Thistle rigged for racing and with no running lights.

Most clubs recognize the most important means of ensuring viability are kids, but how does one get kids into the program except through the children of existing members? And nowadays, unless you are raised into sailing at a young age, there are far too many other activities vying for children's time. When I was a kid, I spent every summer weekend I could with my Grandparents at their beach house, sailing (and other water sports) whenever I could. But what about kids with summer baseball, football, soccer leagues? And whatever else kids do? We have a fleet of 6 Sunfish, and I would love to see some kind of kids' program with them. As it is now, we have a Sunfish picnic and fun day, and some kids are brought to that. Our single hander's race day featuring the Sunfish was NO WIND this year, but only adults showed up for that anyway. There are parents taking some kids out in the Sunfish on a one-off basis. I'd love to have a kids' race series, but that takes a lot of time from volunteer adult sailors. It seems to me, clubs with a club house at the sailing venue have quite the advantage with this. The club has volun-told me I will be commodore next year, and you can be sure this is an agenda I will be flogging hard.

Kermit · Oct 30, 2015

I've read and reread your original post and your follow-up post and don't quite understand what you're trying to understand. You grew up as a racer and now you're a cruiser. So you've done both but now prefer to cruise. But you refer to cruisers as the bane that is plaguing sailing clubs. Are you for or against cruisers? Your club is debt-free due to good management. That's a good thing, right?

The description of your club sounds so much like mine that I had to look at your profile to see where you are. We are on a large inland lake. Our club was formerly mostly racing dinghies and now has a larger cruising fleet. In fact, we just added more docks for cruisers. And we have a size limit on how small the boat can be to have a slip. Our club is recently debt-free because of good management.

So, what really is the problem with your club? I don't mean this in any way other than trying to understand your point.

njlarry · Oct 30, 2015

I grew up racing one designs. It was great. Unfortunately one design racing and sailing clubs are in decline. I wish I knew why. Much has been written about this topic. There is even a whole book written on it. Time, cost, other priorities have been sited but none seem to fully explain it. The club where I learned to sail use to have races three days a week, four or more classes with lots of kids and adults. Now I understand that it has gone upscale with only large boat ocean racing and no one design racing that use to fill the harbor. My current club use to blanket the river with comets, lightnings etc. Now there is no junior sailing except for our adaptive sailing program. There is one regatta a year and most years we can't get three boats. Very sad. New one designs are relatively costly. I think a new peguin is somewhere over seven thousand dollars. Before my time I understand that many yacht clubs started their fleets by members actually getting together and building their own. Most where hard chine plywood designs. Would love to see those magical old days return...along with the Beatles. (Sigh)

Rick D · Oct 30, 2015

My wife went to a regional association of yacht clubs seminar on membership. There is a general decline of membership and interest. Certainly, racing programs in SoCal have declined and overnight events are way down compared to historical entries. To broaden appeal, clubs are considering SUP groups, RV trips, RC model boating, etc.

Maine Sail · Oct 30, 2015

Just to be clear our club is not at all in decline and we currently have a three year wait list. We are the third oldest yacht club in the country so perhaps history plays some role.. What is changing is how people use their boats and how often. We are NOT a social club so our members are boaters..

njlarry · Oct 30, 2015

Brian I just read your post. Good luck with your club. US Sailing has some great resources. I think a key factor is getting the right people together and having enough numbers to reach critcal mass that isself sustaing.

Maine Sail · Oct 30, 2015

Scubagirl62 said:
I am definitely for both! But our club (which does have a clubhouse) limits the number of cruiser boats to 30. That was just expanded from 20. Why? The decline of one designs joining the club. This club was formed to be a racing club back in 1945.

I never realized there was such an issue previous to joining this last year. I have to say that our club has many activities throughout the season that both cruiser and racer alike join in.
My main reason for posting was to see if racing, in general, is on the decline. And if so, what has been the result? Do you ramp up the interest in racing? Do you allow the new dynamic of more cruiser boats to make it more a sailing club than a racing club? What has happened across the U.S. in this respect?
I see value in both cruising and racing.

If it was founded as a Yacht Racing Club and is now comprised of 30 non-racers, recently up from 20, the trend is clear that the racers are the problem, not the cruiser. If racing could fulfill membership it would, but it clearly can't so the club has no choice but to admit cruisers.. The racers have created their own problem yet resent the cruiser and this is just ridiculous. Always easier to point the finger at others (cruisers) for your own failings (racers) I suppose.......

Jackdaw · Oct 30, 2015

WYC is growing and vibrant. 150 boats and owner members. Over 500 crew members, And is a club focused on RACING.

To make that more attractive, we offer slip rates at 1/2 the going rate on Lake Minnetonka, IF you race at least 15 (out of 50) races a year. 99% of boats manage that number.

While we support very competitive One Design fleets (J/24. J/22, Sonar, S2 7.9, Ensign, Capri25) and spinnaker handicap fleets (PHRF and MORC), we also have a large PHRF non-spin fleet that lets new-to-racing, couples, and less competitive types get out and challenge them self around the buoys. They have a blast, and often move up to a spin class.

On any given evening, we will have 120 boats racing. That for a typical ordinary Thursday night race.

We have world-class race management, (a full-time nationally known PRO), 4 RC boats and staff, and constant on and off the water training sessions. Good racing takes work and commitment from the club management.

We also recognize that in order for boats to race, they must be available crew. We therefore focus hard on the crew experience, and make it easy and welcoming for new people to come crew and get on a boat. Crew membership cost $95, and this include free beer and pop after EVERY race. Its the best deal in sailing.

Club management must also be designed to know that the long term plan of the club is, and create plans that further that. We're a SAILING club. We have no SOCIAL memberships. We RACE. We need CREW. We need to take care of BOATOWNERS. We want to grew good FLEETS.

Keep the right things in mind and you're half way there.

Jackdaw · Oct 30, 2015

Scubagirl62 said:
Jackdaw, I like what you are saying! I will mention these responses at our annual luncheon next week! I like your ideas. Thank you for contributing to this thread. I welcome any ideas that can help increase the interest in sailing!

No problem at all. It's good and important that you and your club are looking at this proactively. Any questions just ask.

Stu Jackson · Oct 30, 2015

Jackdaw said:
.......................we also have a large PHRF non-spin fleet that lets new-to-racing, couples, and less competitive types get out and challenge them self around that buoys. They have a blast, and often move up to a spin class.

This is a very important feature. Our Catalina 34 Fleet 1 here on SF Bay has been racing since the late 80s, soon after the boats were starting to be produced. We have always had enough boats to participate in summer & winter races sanctioned by other clubs, in our own one design divisions in those races, which is rare hereabouts except for the "hard-core" one design racing boats. We also have a yearly one-design C34-only series of races called the SF Cup in Sept. or Oct. We also have an active cruising schedule every year, which many of the racers attend. Many of our racers also participate in other races with spinnakers; our one-design races and those where we field our own divisions in other races are all non-spinnaker.

In the late 90s, our racing committee realized that to help new owners to start to race, it would be prudent to have a "Cruisers Division" in our one-design races. This has worked out remarkably well. Some of us who used to race with what we jokingly refer to as "The Big Boys," now race in the cruisers division. Others have started in the cruisers division and moved up and race regularly all year round. I used to.

We agree with Jack's approach. How else is anyone going to learn that racing does not mean smash and crash?

One other point: Don Guilette's Sail Trim Guide should be provided to all newcomers. Not only is it the very best (and folks who know me know I dislike the word best when it comes to anything in sailing) sail trim book ever written, it has a great "How To Race" section with a great "how to start" discussion, that should be required reading.

jdhohmann · Oct 30, 2015

Holy Crap Jackdaw, 120+ boats on a Thursday evening. I can't even imagine the logistics to get that set up. Our club has a fairly robust racing fleet, though it is mainly made up of about 15 boats, non-one design. Though I have also noticed that there is more less frequent racers than before. The other boat clubs around also have been having a reduction in committed racers. I do totally agree that you need a world class racing executive to get membership up, I do really like the race commitment reduction of club membership.. I'm going to try to get that one passed on our annual meeting next week.. Who knows, maybe they'll go for it...

Stu Jackson · Oct 30, 2015

Another thing to remember: racers are people, too (!)

and they require crew and commitment, completely different animal than simply getting a few people to hop on your boat and go sailing (cruising). It's almost like a baseball team, there's turnover year-to-year, so just 'cuz there are a certain amount of racers now, the goal is to figure out how to keep those coming back and attract new ones. That's why Jack's idea is so good.