Hi, I'm in the process of buying a boat ('84 31ft Hunter). The surveyor says he can do 90% of the survey of the boat in the water. Is the extra 10% worth the strain on the boat
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Steve O.
haul-out
Are you a gambler? If the boat has blisters, a bent shaft, and a broken prop, it would be more than worth it. There's no strain on the boat if it's done correctly. Your call.
Are you a gambler? If the boat has blisters, a bent shaft, and a broken prop, it would be more than worth it. There's no strain on the boat if it's done correctly. Your call.
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Miles
I would...
I'd say it's worth the extra cost to haul, you never know what you'll find (probably nothing...) In fact, I'm suprised the insurance company doesn't insist on a haulout with the survey. You wouldn't want to find out after buying it that it only has half a keel or a huge blister problem or something... Have fun!
I'd say it's worth the extra cost to haul, you never know what you'll find (probably nothing...) In fact, I'm suprised the insurance company doesn't insist on a haulout with the survey. You wouldn't want to find out after buying it that it only has half a keel or a huge blister problem or something... Have fun!
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Robert Polk
Find another surveyor.
If your surveyor suggests that an in the water survey is acceptable - I'd look for another surveyor!
If your surveyor suggests that an in the water survey is acceptable - I'd look for another surveyor!
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Rich
Absolutely, haul it
We had a survey done on an 88 '34 and found thousands of blisters on the hull. Haul/powerwash was around $200. Cost of blister repair was in the $thousands.
We had a survey done on an 88 '34 and found thousands of blisters on the hull. Haul/powerwash was around $200. Cost of blister repair was in the $thousands.
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Don
my 2 cents..
When I bought my former '31, I was pretty comfortable with the condition of the boat and did not want to spend top dollar on a survey (yea, I know there is some risk here, but I was willing to take it at the time and price.) My boat was, however, already out of the water so I could see the bottom. On my current boat (a 37.5) there was much more money at stake and I insisted on a top notch survey and was willing to pay for it. If you know boats and what to look for, you can take some risks. I would, however, want to see the boat out of the water to have the surveyor check the things others have mentioned here and the status of the bottom paint. If it needs to be painted now, you can do in-water survey and sea trial, then haul it and be prepared to keep it out for the bottom job. If the marina will do it, it saves paying for 2 haulouts. Sounds like your surveyor is trying to take the short cut, which might be ok if you know boats well AND he's charging you the shortcut price.
When I bought my former '31, I was pretty comfortable with the condition of the boat and did not want to spend top dollar on a survey (yea, I know there is some risk here, but I was willing to take it at the time and price.) My boat was, however, already out of the water so I could see the bottom. On my current boat (a 37.5) there was much more money at stake and I insisted on a top notch survey and was willing to pay for it. If you know boats and what to look for, you can take some risks. I would, however, want to see the boat out of the water to have the surveyor check the things others have mentioned here and the status of the bottom paint. If it needs to be painted now, you can do in-water survey and sea trial, then haul it and be prepared to keep it out for the bottom job. If the marina will do it, it saves paying for 2 haulouts. Sounds like your surveyor is trying to take the short cut, which might be ok if you know boats well AND he's charging you the shortcut price.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Yes, the other 10% is definitely worth it.
90% of the survey--all the systems, rigging, wiring, hoses, seacocks, etc etc etc IS done in the water. But it has to come out to inspect the bottom, the keel, the shaft, cutless bearing and struts--items you definitely WANT to be inspected. The haulout for a survey is what's known as a "short haul"--the boat is lifted and held in the lift while the surveyor inspects everything, then put back in the water. Takes about half an hour and costs about half of a regular haulout. No full pre-purchase survey is complete without it.
90% of the survey--all the systems, rigging, wiring, hoses, seacocks, etc etc etc IS done in the water. But it has to come out to inspect the bottom, the keel, the shaft, cutless bearing and struts--items you definitely WANT to be inspected. The haulout for a survey is what's known as a "short haul"--the boat is lifted and held in the lift while the surveyor inspects everything, then put back in the water. Takes about half an hour and costs about half of a regular haulout. No full pre-purchase survey is complete without it.
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David
Survey
Any good surveyor is going to do what you pay for, however, the options are for your decisions. I always recommend to my customers that a haul out and a sea trial are a good idea. The choice is yours.
Any good surveyor is going to do what you pay for, however, the options are for your decisions. I always recommend to my customers that a haul out and a sea trial are a good idea. The choice is yours.
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Tim Schaaf
Thumbs down on that surveyor!
It is hard to imagine that a surveyor who would offer to do an in-the-water purchase survey has his client's (your) best interests in mind! Did the broker happen to recommend him? Ask a boatyard or an insurance agent or a friend for a recommendation.
It is hard to imagine that a surveyor who would offer to do an in-the-water purchase survey has his client's (your) best interests in mind! Did the broker happen to recommend him? Ask a boatyard or an insurance agent or a friend for a recommendation.
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Art Barnes
Must know your boat!
It is always risky to not put it on the hard for a survey. I would never do it except if I knew the boat. For instance, the boat was at the club and you knew the owner who maintained it well. Blisters, although always correctable, can be costly as well as the bearing, shaft and propeller. I purchased two boats without a haulout, was extremely lucky. On one boat I did not know too well, I hired a diver for $75.00 to go under and scrape the bottom and have a look around. He not only told me it "was not a blister boat" but that the prop, shaft and bearing looked fine. For the $75.00 I got a good understanding of her bottom and a cleaning which help motor her home an extra two knots or so. You might want to try a diver first, then your surveyor. Having said that, its always better to have her put on the hard and a careful look by a copetent surveyor. Fairwinds, Art
It is always risky to not put it on the hard for a survey. I would never do it except if I knew the boat. For instance, the boat was at the club and you knew the owner who maintained it well. Blisters, although always correctable, can be costly as well as the bearing, shaft and propeller. I purchased two boats without a haulout, was extremely lucky. On one boat I did not know too well, I hired a diver for $75.00 to go under and scrape the bottom and have a look around. He not only told me it "was not a blister boat" but that the prop, shaft and bearing looked fine. For the $75.00 I got a good understanding of her bottom and a cleaning which help motor her home an extra two knots or so. You might want to try a diver first, then your surveyor. Having said that, its always better to have her put on the hard and a careful look by a copetent surveyor. Fairwinds, Art
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Tim, I kinda disagree
I think y'all are jumping to the conclusion that surveyor recommended against a haulout. That's not what I read...he told him that 90% of the survey can be done in the water and offered the option of a haulout or not, which is perfectely reasonable. The surveyor works for the person who hires him/her...in the case of a pre-purchase, the buyer. A good surveyor would never RECOMMEND only an in-the-water survey, but should offer the client options and should tell the client what can be missed if the boat isn't hauled. Otoh, if the surveyor has seen the bottom--perhaps for another buyer, or was involved in work done on it--there's nothing wrong with telling the buyer that (s)he has and knows what he'll find...but he'll still leave it up to client to decide whether to have it hauled anyway. That was the case when I sold my boat...the same surveyor had also been involved in bottom and underwater hardware repairs only a year ago. The boat was in fresh water and had not been grounded...she offered the buyer the option of a haulout. He decided against it based on the condition of the rest of the boat. My point is, she made it the buyer's choice just as this surveyor seems to be doing, which is absolutely proper. Otoh, lender and insurance "condition and value" surveys rarely include a haulout...insurance co's don't care whether there's anything wrong with the boat that can cost the owner big money (which is the purpose of a pre-purchase survey).The bottom can be covered with blisters, struts can be bent, and shafts can be S-shaped...they don't care. Lenders are only interested in whether it's worth at least as much as they're lending on it (75-80% of what you paid for it), and insurers only in what's likely to cost 'em a major claim. Which is why "C
I think y'all are jumping to the conclusion that surveyor recommended against a haulout. That's not what I read...he told him that 90% of the survey can be done in the water and offered the option of a haulout or not, which is perfectely reasonable. The surveyor works for the person who hires him/her...in the case of a pre-purchase, the buyer. A good surveyor would never RECOMMEND only an in-the-water survey, but should offer the client options and should tell the client what can be missed if the boat isn't hauled. Otoh, if the surveyor has seen the bottom--perhaps for another buyer, or was involved in work done on it--there's nothing wrong with telling the buyer that (s)he has and knows what he'll find...but he'll still leave it up to client to decide whether to have it hauled anyway. That was the case when I sold my boat...the same surveyor had also been involved in bottom and underwater hardware repairs only a year ago. The boat was in fresh water and had not been grounded...she offered the buyer the option of a haulout. He decided against it based on the condition of the rest of the boat. My point is, she made it the buyer's choice just as this surveyor seems to be doing, which is absolutely proper. Otoh, lender and insurance "condition and value" surveys rarely include a haulout...insurance co's don't care whether there's anything wrong with the boat that can cost the owner big money (which is the purpose of a pre-purchase survey).The bottom can be covered with blisters, struts can be bent, and shafts can be S-shaped...they don't care. Lenders are only interested in whether it's worth at least as much as they're lending on it (75-80% of what you paid for it), and insurers only in what's likely to cost 'em a major claim. Which is why "C
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Tim Schaaf
In the water survey,
Interesting....my insurance company insists on an out of the water survey, every three years. Of course, the boat is twenty-one years old, but this has been the case since day one.
Interesting....my insurance company insists on an out of the water survey, every three years. Of course, the boat is twenty-one years old, but this has been the case since day one.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Depends on the boat, the insurance carrier, and
what kind of coverage. If you're limited to, for instance "southern inland waters" (as I was) or regional coastal waters, insurance carriers require a lot less than they might for blue water cruising boats. It's one thing if a keel falls off in Lake Lanier, quite another if it falls off in the Southern Ocean--so they just might want to see what kind of shape it's in...along with other things that could cost 'em the price of your boat out there.
what kind of coverage. If you're limited to, for instance "southern inland waters" (as I was) or regional coastal waters, insurance carriers require a lot less than they might for blue water cruising boats. It's one thing if a keel falls off in Lake Lanier, quite another if it falls off in the Southern Ocean--so they just might want to see what kind of shape it's in...along with other things that could cost 'em the price of your boat out there.
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