We recently purchased a 1986 25 foot Macgregor. We have had it out two times since then. First time we took it out there was a light breeze and we seemed to be able to go any direction we wanted. Thought this was pretty easy stuff. This weekend however we took it out in stronger wind probably 20-25 mph. We had a lot of trouble tacking. As we headed in to the wind with the sails on one side we had a lot of trouble getting it to turn enough to allow us to swing the boom over and head the other direction. Is there a trick we should have been doing to allow us to turn the other direction? I tried tightening the mainsail, I tried letting it out more but nothing seemed to help. Even with the rudder all the way to one side it would not turn the boat. Can anyone give a little advise on what we should have done?
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M
MArk of OSMS
All you need...
... is more speed. You may be trying to point too close to the wind before you tack, losing too much speed. Try sailing more off the wind until you're moving at a good clip then swing the bow through the wind quickly. Remember that the wind actual direction is further aft than the apparent wind when you're moving forward. Because of this, you'll have to turn the boat farther than you might think before you can catch wind in the sails again. There's a sailing simulation on the related link you may find both informative and entertaining. Happy sails *_/), MArk
... is more speed. You may be trying to point too close to the wind before you tack, losing too much speed. Try sailing more off the wind until you're moving at a good clip then swing the bow through the wind quickly. Remember that the wind actual direction is further aft than the apparent wind when you're moving forward. Because of this, you'll have to turn the boat farther than you might think before you can catch wind in the sails again. There's a sailing simulation on the related link you may find both informative and entertaining. Happy sails *_/), MArk
J
John Dawson
Tack a Mac
Agree with MArk. Also...you need to realize that these Macs have minimal hull, minimal keel and minimal rudder surfaces. You can't bomb along with 25kn wind and expect the boat to not be able to ignore these surfaces to some degree. The problem is not that they are unresponsive, but that they are too responsive to handle heavy conditions easily. In light winds, the boat pivots easily. But when she is bowling along, the butterknife of a rudder and ribbon of a keel are hard pressed for control. (Usually you will tend to round up when overpowered, so your rig may be too balanced.) You could try using other controls to assist your maneuvering. Try starting (easing) the jib sheet before you put the helm down, to take pressure off your bow when turning. Or if possible, use a smaller jib (or roller-reef) to give you more weather helm if you need it. When you understand the design's strengths and weaknesses better, you can compensate and even take advantage of them. Oddly enough, these boats love both light and heavy air, but the aspect of control changes.
Agree with MArk. Also...you need to realize that these Macs have minimal hull, minimal keel and minimal rudder surfaces. You can't bomb along with 25kn wind and expect the boat to not be able to ignore these surfaces to some degree. The problem is not that they are unresponsive, but that they are too responsive to handle heavy conditions easily. In light winds, the boat pivots easily. But when she is bowling along, the butterknife of a rudder and ribbon of a keel are hard pressed for control. (Usually you will tend to round up when overpowered, so your rig may be too balanced.) You could try using other controls to assist your maneuvering. Try starting (easing) the jib sheet before you put the helm down, to take pressure off your bow when turning. Or if possible, use a smaller jib (or roller-reef) to give you more weather helm if you need it. When you understand the design's strengths and weaknesses better, you can compensate and even take advantage of them. Oddly enough, these boats love both light and heavy air, but the aspect of control changes.
J
Jerry
Sometimes I have the same problem
You need to tack fast and even that doesn't always do the trick. There have been several questions in this forum about the same problem. Sometimes a lot of us come around (downwind) and jibe to change course. Not a good solution but sometimes there's no choice. There have even been times when we've motor sailed out of conditions like these. Check the archives and see all of the responses. Also check the current forum regarding: "Rudder Broke". It sounds like there is an aftermarket rudder available from "http://www.idasailor.com/" that is highly touted as being a solution to weather helm. I'd take a look at it. It would be interesting to see some impartial reviews about this item. We have "tender boats" (ours is a 26S) and refining our sailing techniques help but design aids and other alterations may also compensate for the problems we're encountering. There have been times when we were unable to tack regardless of sail trim, speed or anything else. I'd also recommend a book: "Sail & Rig Tuning" by Ivar Dedekam. You can get it through Amazon.com or www.fernhurstbooks.co.uk.
You need to tack fast and even that doesn't always do the trick. There have been several questions in this forum about the same problem. Sometimes a lot of us come around (downwind) and jibe to change course. Not a good solution but sometimes there's no choice. There have even been times when we've motor sailed out of conditions like these. Check the archives and see all of the responses. Also check the current forum regarding: "Rudder Broke". It sounds like there is an aftermarket rudder available from "http://www.idasailor.com/" that is highly touted as being a solution to weather helm. I'd take a look at it. It would be interesting to see some impartial reviews about this item. We have "tender boats" (ours is a 26S) and refining our sailing techniques help but design aids and other alterations may also compensate for the problems we're encountering. There have been times when we were unable to tack regardless of sail trim, speed or anything else. I'd also recommend a book: "Sail & Rig Tuning" by Ivar Dedekam. You can get it through Amazon.com or www.fernhurstbooks.co.uk.
B
Bruce
I agree with John
John is right, I recently switched to a Mac21 from an O'day-style 17. I noticed that the mac usually has a 'weather helm' and will round into the wind-even with the rudder from a 25 that's on my boat. Try de-powering the jib at first a bit but keep it cleated until you're almost through the true wind direction then trim it for the other side as your main fills with air and you start to make headway.
John is right, I recently switched to a Mac21 from an O'day-style 17. I noticed that the mac usually has a 'weather helm' and will round into the wind-even with the rudder from a 25 that's on my boat. Try de-powering the jib at first a bit but keep it cleated until you're almost through the true wind direction then trim it for the other side as your main fills with air and you start to make headway.
B
Bruce
I agree with John
John is right, I recently switched to a Mac21 from an O'day-style 17. I noticed that the mac usually has a 'weather helm' and will round into the wind-even with the rudder from a 25 that's on my boat. Try de-powering the jib at first a bit but keep it cleated until you're almost through the true wind direction then trim it for the other side as your main fills with air and you start to make headway.
John is right, I recently switched to a Mac21 from an O'day-style 17. I noticed that the mac usually has a 'weather helm' and will round into the wind-even with the rudder from a 25 that's on my boat. Try de-powering the jib at first a bit but keep it cleated until you're almost through the true wind direction then trim it for the other side as your main fills with air and you start to make headway.
K
Kent
Another idea
Strangely enough, I had this happen when I was slowly motoring. The 26d simply turned on its keel. Perhaps some of the problem we are having is stowing too much baggage in the bow, raising the rudder. I am moving my non-water ballast and crew further to the stern and see what happens.
Strangely enough, I had this happen when I was slowly motoring. The 26d simply turned on its keel. Perhaps some of the problem we are having is stowing too much baggage in the bow, raising the rudder. I am moving my non-water ballast and crew further to the stern and see what happens.
J
John Dawson
Sorry, try this first
If you simply put the helm over in strong air, the rudder will 'stall' and loose effectiveness. So here is a contradiction: steer slower and tack faster in big air. Get used to the feel of the helm, nudge it to leeward and give the boat a second to respond. As a delayed reaction, the boat should realize its free to 'round up', and then you can accelerate the turn. As said, the boat will not 'slavishly' follow its helm in extreme conditions. This is more important to understand going downwind in heavy air. The boat pivots easily, and can overpower its rudder. Sail changes and course adjustments may be necessary. Rudder traction can be a problem on larger boats too. When I crewed on 40' races, we rammed a brand new yacht. The leeward winch got wrapped in heavy wind, sails strapped in, and the boat locked its course in tight quarters, not answering the helm. It can happen.
If you simply put the helm over in strong air, the rudder will 'stall' and loose effectiveness. So here is a contradiction: steer slower and tack faster in big air. Get used to the feel of the helm, nudge it to leeward and give the boat a second to respond. As a delayed reaction, the boat should realize its free to 'round up', and then you can accelerate the turn. As said, the boat will not 'slavishly' follow its helm in extreme conditions. This is more important to understand going downwind in heavy air. The boat pivots easily, and can overpower its rudder. Sail changes and course adjustments may be necessary. Rudder traction can be a problem on larger boats too. When I crewed on 40' races, we rammed a brand new yacht. The leeward winch got wrapped in heavy wind, sails strapped in, and the boat locked its course in tight quarters, not answering the helm. It can happen.
D
Dave Decker
Had the same problem last weekend
Being a newbie, I too experienced the problem of turning back into the wind from a run. I also was told by a more experienced sailor on the dock that I was trying to turn to slow. It takes some time to get everything coordinated when you are single-handling but I'm learning.
Being a newbie, I too experienced the problem of turning back into the wind from a run. I also was told by a more experienced sailor on the dock that I was trying to turn to slow. It takes some time to get everything coordinated when you are single-handling but I'm learning.
D
Dan McGuire
Tacking a Mac 23
I have trouble tacking my Mac 23 in anything over a 15k wind. I wrote an article for Sailing Magazine on this which they did not publish. I described all of my gyrations using the rudder, main sail, both jibs and shifting weight. My contention was that all sailboats have a maximum wind which will allow tacking. The limit is dependent on hull speed and the amount of windage, especially in the bow. The hull speed limits my forward speed to around 6k. The Mac 23 has a lot of windage forward. As the winds get stronger there is just not enough momentum available to tack. For the Mac 23 I am willing to sail in winds which will not allow tacking. In many larger boats people are not willing to sail in the wind which would prevent tacking.
I have trouble tacking my Mac 23 in anything over a 15k wind. I wrote an article for Sailing Magazine on this which they did not publish. I described all of my gyrations using the rudder, main sail, both jibs and shifting weight. My contention was that all sailboats have a maximum wind which will allow tacking. The limit is dependent on hull speed and the amount of windage, especially in the bow. The hull speed limits my forward speed to around 6k. The Mac 23 has a lot of windage forward. As the winds get stronger there is just not enough momentum available to tack. For the Mac 23 I am willing to sail in winds which will not allow tacking. In many larger boats people are not willing to sail in the wind which would prevent tacking.
K
Kent
Speed up first
I too, agree with John. Just before you tack, veer off the wind to gain speed, then vigorously tack using the momentum of the boat. By tacking slowly, you may be putting the boat in irons.
I too, agree with John. Just before you tack, veer off the wind to gain speed, then vigorously tack using the momentum of the boat. By tacking slowly, you may be putting the boat in irons.
F
Flip
Sailing backwards
In heavy wind you will stop and move backwards in a light boat like the Mac. If you cannot finish your turn, turn your rudder the opposite direction. Your boat will back out of the dead spot swinging your bow around and filling you sail. Then bring your rudder back where you need it to complete the turn.
In heavy wind you will stop and move backwards in a light boat like the Mac. If you cannot finish your turn, turn your rudder the opposite direction. Your boat will back out of the dead spot swinging your bow around and filling you sail. Then bring your rudder back where you need it to complete the turn.
L
Lori
I too am a newbie to Macs. I recently got a Mac 25 after sailing a 14' Lido for many years. I'm used to fast tacks and jumping from side to side... what I learned, since this boat is much heavier than what I'm used to, is to let the jib slightly backwind when tacking... this will help to turn the boat. Only in low wind conditions!
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