I'm looking for advise. My Yanmar manual recommends Shell 30 weight oil. I'd like to know the benefits and drawbacks of using a synthetic multi viscosity oil instead.
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Pete
yaanmar oils
Yanmar now markets it's own oil, a straight 30 weight and a 10-30 multi-viscosity. I would stick to one of those rather then synthetic oil,my track tecord on synthetic is poor in that it alway leaks on a old engine maybe would be different if synthetic was used from new.Still the most important thing is to change the oil on a regular intervals!
Yanmar now markets it's own oil, a straight 30 weight and a 10-30 multi-viscosity. I would stick to one of those rather then synthetic oil,my track tecord on synthetic is poor in that it alway leaks on a old engine maybe would be different if synthetic was used from new.Still the most important thing is to change the oil on a regular intervals!
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Alex
No syntetic oil for regular Yanmars..
..That's what I read in a well known English sailing magazine ,a short article submited by Yanmar expert , several months ago.They actually might damage the engine on the long run.I don't rememder exactly why , but I think it has to do with the intergral additives in the specific oils.
..That's what I read in a well known English sailing magazine ,a short article submited by Yanmar expert , several months ago.They actually might damage the engine on the long run.I don't rememder exactly why , but I think it has to do with the intergral additives in the specific oils.
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Rick Webb
Only One Problem I Can Think Of
I have used Mobil One in all my cars for the last ten years. A few which had more than 100,000 miles on them and they leaked no more than before after switching. There is little doubt that the synthetic oil does all of the sort of things oil is supposed to do only much better. The question is the difference in price, about four dollars a quart more worthwhile. The problem on a boat I see is the operating temperature. The synthetic oil will bring the operating temperature down considerably. If you do not use the engine under load long enough you will not get it high enough to get rid of the condensation or contaminants in the oil. The stuff pours much easier and will be a breeze to pump out through the dipstick. I am curious to what the experts will chime in with on this.
I have used Mobil One in all my cars for the last ten years. A few which had more than 100,000 miles on them and they leaked no more than before after switching. There is little doubt that the synthetic oil does all of the sort of things oil is supposed to do only much better. The question is the difference in price, about four dollars a quart more worthwhile. The problem on a boat I see is the operating temperature. The synthetic oil will bring the operating temperature down considerably. If you do not use the engine under load long enough you will not get it high enough to get rid of the condensation or contaminants in the oil. The stuff pours much easier and will be a breeze to pump out through the dipstick. I am curious to what the experts will chime in with on this.
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Gordon Torresen
Synthetic oil
Once again, Yanmar says don't use it. The biggest problem with diesel lube oil is the dirt that it gets from blow by. You change the oil frequently to get rid of the dirt. Different types or grades of lubricating oil will not extend the period between changes no mater how much you pay for it.
Once again, Yanmar says don't use it. The biggest problem with diesel lube oil is the dirt that it gets from blow by. You change the oil frequently to get rid of the dirt. Different types or grades of lubricating oil will not extend the period between changes no mater how much you pay for it.
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Rick Webb
So you can use it, but..
you must change the oil just as often? Or am I misunderstanding the reason for not using it?
you must change the oil just as often? Or am I misunderstanding the reason for not using it?
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Gordon Torresen
Rick Webb - you may use it.
Rick Webb: You own the boat and the engine so you may use anything you want. Yanmar says don't use synthetics and that should be the main reason for not using it. The other reason is that the extra $4.00 per quart is thrown away. As for making the engine run cooler, that's hogwash. The oil, no matter what kind, does not talk to the thermostat and the thermostat is the only thing in the engine that controls the temperature.
Rick Webb: You own the boat and the engine so you may use anything you want. Yanmar says don't use synthetics and that should be the main reason for not using it. The other reason is that the extra $4.00 per quart is thrown away. As for making the engine run cooler, that's hogwash. The oil, no matter what kind, does not talk to the thermostat and the thermostat is the only thing in the engine that controls the temperature.
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Rick Webb
It Sure Makes Mine Cooler
Yes, the thermostat controls the temperature but until the engine reaches that temperature there are many things that influence how quickly the engine heats up. If I remember my classes correctly the oil typically does about 80% of the cooling as it is much closer to the heat being generated. While this would be anecdotal vs scientific our cars take much longer to warm up enough for the heater to work with the synthetic than conventional oil. My point was if you do not run your engine long enough to heat up the oil (or open up the thermostat) you do not get rid of the condensation in the engine and that would be exacerbated using synthetic oil. I agree though that if you would use the synthetic oil and are not able to extend the oil change interval it may not be worth the difference in price.
Yes, the thermostat controls the temperature but until the engine reaches that temperature there are many things that influence how quickly the engine heats up. If I remember my classes correctly the oil typically does about 80% of the cooling as it is much closer to the heat being generated. While this would be anecdotal vs scientific our cars take much longer to warm up enough for the heater to work with the synthetic than conventional oil. My point was if you do not run your engine long enough to heat up the oil (or open up the thermostat) you do not get rid of the condensation in the engine and that would be exacerbated using synthetic oil. I agree though that if you would use the synthetic oil and are not able to extend the oil change interval it may not be worth the difference in price.
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Claude L.-Auger
Cooler yes, dirty for sure
Rick, I spent 17 years with an engine bearing manufacturer. You are right that the oil does play an important role in cooling the engine where it gets hot first, but don't forget that a diesel engine runs properly when it reaches its normal operating temperature. However, the real important factor here as Gordon puts it is the fact that diesel engine oil gets dirty and contaminated because of the blow-by that takes place when the engine is running. That is why we must change oil frequently because our engines generally do not get dirty on account of dirty air. So, if we must change oil frequently to make sure that its clean, what is the point of using a more expensive and longer lasting oil that you will need to replace before it has reached its so-called life span. If the oil gets dirty it needs to be replaced, whether it has broken its molecular qualities down or not. That I believe is the real point. Hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving week-end ! BTW, do you keep your boat at Point Cadet, BYC, or Small Craft Harbor ?
Rick, I spent 17 years with an engine bearing manufacturer. You are right that the oil does play an important role in cooling the engine where it gets hot first, but don't forget that a diesel engine runs properly when it reaches its normal operating temperature. However, the real important factor here as Gordon puts it is the fact that diesel engine oil gets dirty and contaminated because of the blow-by that takes place when the engine is running. That is why we must change oil frequently because our engines generally do not get dirty on account of dirty air. So, if we must change oil frequently to make sure that its clean, what is the point of using a more expensive and longer lasting oil that you will need to replace before it has reached its so-called life span. If the oil gets dirty it needs to be replaced, whether it has broken its molecular qualities down or not. That I believe is the real point. Hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving week-end ! BTW, do you keep your boat at Point Cadet, BYC, or Small Craft Harbor ?
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Rick Webb
Eh Claude, Thanks Eh
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving up there too. Y'all do yours before ours if I remember correctly. We keep our boat at the Marina at Keesler AFB we are in the back bay about half way between Popps Ferry Bridge and the I-110 Bridge. It is a little further to go when we sail but it is only four minutes from the house and the slip fees are a lot cheaper than those out front even if you can get a slip. You are right, the point is that if one uses synthetic oil to increase the interval between oil changes it is a waste of money. My observation was that because the synthetic oil reduces friction and because of it's ability to dissipate heat better than conventional oil it will take longer for the engine to achieve it's normal operating temperature. I guess I could have said it better.
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving up there too. Y'all do yours before ours if I remember correctly. We keep our boat at the Marina at Keesler AFB we are in the back bay about half way between Popps Ferry Bridge and the I-110 Bridge. It is a little further to go when we sail but it is only four minutes from the house and the slip fees are a lot cheaper than those out front even if you can get a slip. You are right, the point is that if one uses synthetic oil to increase the interval between oil changes it is a waste of money. My observation was that because the synthetic oil reduces friction and because of it's ability to dissipate heat better than conventional oil it will take longer for the engine to achieve it's normal operating temperature. I guess I could have said it better.
Synthetics in diesel boats.
I think that one of the points that the users of synthetics in boats miss is the fact that we are dealing with a boat that runs in a realitively constant temperature conditions compared to an auto. When we are dealing with a automobile, truck etc. Wheather it be a gas or diesel engine we are dealing with temp. ranges all over the place in daily operations. In the moring we may be in near freezing conditions and by the afternoon we may be dealing with 80-100 deg. tempatures in stop and go traffic. When we are dealing with these types of conditions there is probably some reason to use a synthetic oil. With a boat we are dealing with air temps that are probably only 40-50 degree spreads at any given time with a constant cooling water tempature of 50-85 or 90 degrees. Our autos never had it so good. The marine engine is typically running at a constant RPM range too. My point here is the marine diesel engine gets an oil change every 50-100 hours but never gets the type of abuse that your auto gets. Granted that you only use 2-3 qts of oil in your marine engine but it provides very little extra value the money that you spend ($2-3 vs $8-12 once a year). High quality petroleum based oils and frequent oil change will make your engine last. Weather you use a multi-grade or a single grade just change it often.
I think that one of the points that the users of synthetics in boats miss is the fact that we are dealing with a boat that runs in a realitively constant temperature conditions compared to an auto. When we are dealing with a automobile, truck etc. Wheather it be a gas or diesel engine we are dealing with temp. ranges all over the place in daily operations. In the moring we may be in near freezing conditions and by the afternoon we may be dealing with 80-100 deg. tempatures in stop and go traffic. When we are dealing with these types of conditions there is probably some reason to use a synthetic oil. With a boat we are dealing with air temps that are probably only 40-50 degree spreads at any given time with a constant cooling water tempature of 50-85 or 90 degrees. Our autos never had it so good. The marine engine is typically running at a constant RPM range too. My point here is the marine diesel engine gets an oil change every 50-100 hours but never gets the type of abuse that your auto gets. Granted that you only use 2-3 qts of oil in your marine engine but it provides very little extra value the money that you spend ($2-3 vs $8-12 once a year). High quality petroleum based oils and frequent oil change will make your engine last. Weather you use a multi-grade or a single grade just change it often.
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Sam Kurtz
I use it in everything
I am not an engineer nor a real mechanic just an old airplane driver. Not to step on anyone's toes but I use the synthetic stuff in everything from my airplane to my lawnmower. If I am wasting $20 a year on over protecting my motor using the synthetic stuff I will not loose any sleep over it. Hell, just walking into Boat US costs me $50 when I do not even need anything. I also have noticed a lower operating temp on engines after switching oil while getting more RPMs out of it at the same time. I also would like to echo the comment about it being easier to suck back out at changing time even down here were it does not get real cold I noticed a big difference. So unless there is a reason other than it costing more I will continue to blow an extra $2 a month overprotecting what may be the most expensive and most difficult thing to replace on my boat. As for Yanmar saying not to and that being good enough my Mercedes dealer wants me to come in every 5,000 miles to have the oil changed add some washer fluid check the belts and tire pressure for only $500 they will have to find another rube to take that one. If I offended anyone next time your down here I will buy you a beer maybe even two.
I am not an engineer nor a real mechanic just an old airplane driver. Not to step on anyone's toes but I use the synthetic stuff in everything from my airplane to my lawnmower. If I am wasting $20 a year on over protecting my motor using the synthetic stuff I will not loose any sleep over it. Hell, just walking into Boat US costs me $50 when I do not even need anything. I also have noticed a lower operating temp on engines after switching oil while getting more RPMs out of it at the same time. I also would like to echo the comment about it being easier to suck back out at changing time even down here were it does not get real cold I noticed a big difference. So unless there is a reason other than it costing more I will continue to blow an extra $2 a month overprotecting what may be the most expensive and most difficult thing to replace on my boat. As for Yanmar saying not to and that being good enough my Mercedes dealer wants me to come in every 5,000 miles to have the oil changed add some washer fluid check the belts and tire pressure for only $500 they will have to find another rube to take that one. If I offended anyone next time your down here I will buy you a beer maybe even two.
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Gordon Torresen
Oil and cooling
This is about the longest string so far on this forum. Keep the input coming. When things start to slow down, we will tally the votes and then give the losers a couple of weeks to review things before we certify. We will then all go back to doing things as before. The cooling water cools most engines. It even keeps the oil cool. The heat is generated in the cylinders and is removed from the outside of the cylinder walls and the head by the coolant which, when hot, is either dumped overboard or run through a heat exchanger to be cooled before returning to take more heat away from the cylinders. The oil never gets near the outside of the cylinder walls. Some engines do have oil coolers that try to maintain the oil temperature at sea water temperature. These are generally found on the larger engines. Diesels like to run hot. If you could maintain 210F, your engine would be the happiest. Thermostats generally control the temperature to around 185F to give a little safety factor. When we talk about removing the combustion generated heat, the lubricant should not enter the equation.
This is about the longest string so far on this forum. Keep the input coming. When things start to slow down, we will tally the votes and then give the losers a couple of weeks to review things before we certify. We will then all go back to doing things as before. The cooling water cools most engines. It even keeps the oil cool. The heat is generated in the cylinders and is removed from the outside of the cylinder walls and the head by the coolant which, when hot, is either dumped overboard or run through a heat exchanger to be cooled before returning to take more heat away from the cylinders. The oil never gets near the outside of the cylinder walls. Some engines do have oil coolers that try to maintain the oil temperature at sea water temperature. These are generally found on the larger engines. Diesels like to run hot. If you could maintain 210F, your engine would be the happiest. Thermostats generally control the temperature to around 185F to give a little safety factor. When we talk about removing the combustion generated heat, the lubricant should not enter the equation.
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Ted Lattrell
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Dave Kelton
Hey Ted
Hey Ted, your boat doesn't move enough off the mooring to justify synthetic! HAHA , ( couldn't resist the jab. ) It's almost snowmobiling time! Dave
Hey Ted, your boat doesn't move enough off the mooring to justify synthetic! HAHA , ( couldn't resist the jab. ) It's almost snowmobiling time! Dave
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Ted Lattrell
Hay Dave
Dave, just because your boat can't keep up, unless I'm on the mooring......... As for Snowmobiling, you will be riding the slowest machine I have! Does anyone know why Yanmar does not recommend synthetic oil?
Dave, just because your boat can't keep up, unless I'm on the mooring......... As for Snowmobiling, you will be riding the slowest machine I have! Does anyone know why Yanmar does not recommend synthetic oil?
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