I am a big proponent of synthetic oil, and use it exclusively in all the family cars. Does anyone know of a similar product for use in marine diesel engines? I was about to call Yanmar but thought I'd post the question to the web site first. Any comments would be appreciated. For what it's worth, an auto mechanic said to use auto synthetic along with some marine 'additives', however I don't believe in using auto products in my marine engine and besides, I don't think Yanmar is a big believer in the use of 'additives' in their engines.
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Warranty
I think that if you use oil additives in your new Yanmar that you may even void the warranty. Diesels aren't designed for additives and you may even hinder performance. With a new boat, such as you have - H380, I wouldn't upset the apple cart. I would stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.
I think that if you use oil additives in your new Yanmar that you may even void the warranty. Diesels aren't designed for additives and you may even hinder performance. With a new boat, such as you have - H380, I wouldn't upset the apple cart. I would stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.
Diesel Engine Oils
My experience is that the oil in a diesel, is not the same as the oil used in a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines have a "S" in their ratings. For example "SD" or "SC". A diesel engine oil is rated with a "C" as in "CC" or "CD", "CE" or "CF". I understand that the "S" stands for spark, the "C" for compression. If there is a synthetic oil rated to the "C" standards, it would seem alright. But the impurities, acidity, sulfur content, etc., that end up in the oil of a diesel engine are different than that of a gasoline, so you should follow the ratings. I also note that diesel fuel is not as destructive to oil as gasoline is. It doesn't wash the cylnder walls clean nor is it as abrasive as gasoline. So the advantages of a synthetic would not be as important. Finally, and probably most important, when you change the oil, you remove impurities, water, etc., present in the old oil. Thus, changing oil more often, rather than using synthetic oil, would make for a longer engine life. Despite the television ads to the contrary, oil seldom breaks down just from age. It is the impurities (water, gasoline, dirt, etc.,) that destroys the lubricating capability of the oil. And, if you do your own oil changes, it gives you a chance to look at your oil, and maybe get a hint of engine condition. My disclaimer is that I'm not a mechanic or engineer, just passing along what I've been told, read, and what works in practise, for me.
My experience is that the oil in a diesel, is not the same as the oil used in a gasoline engine. Gasoline engines have a "S" in their ratings. For example "SD" or "SC". A diesel engine oil is rated with a "C" as in "CC" or "CD", "CE" or "CF". I understand that the "S" stands for spark, the "C" for compression. If there is a synthetic oil rated to the "C" standards, it would seem alright. But the impurities, acidity, sulfur content, etc., that end up in the oil of a diesel engine are different than that of a gasoline, so you should follow the ratings. I also note that diesel fuel is not as destructive to oil as gasoline is. It doesn't wash the cylnder walls clean nor is it as abrasive as gasoline. So the advantages of a synthetic would not be as important. Finally, and probably most important, when you change the oil, you remove impurities, water, etc., present in the old oil. Thus, changing oil more often, rather than using synthetic oil, would make for a longer engine life. Despite the television ads to the contrary, oil seldom breaks down just from age. It is the impurities (water, gasoline, dirt, etc.,) that destroys the lubricating capability of the oil. And, if you do your own oil changes, it gives you a chance to look at your oil, and maybe get a hint of engine condition. My disclaimer is that I'm not a mechanic or engineer, just passing along what I've been told, read, and what works in practise, for me.
RPM DELO
WE'VE USED RPM DELO OIL FOR YEARS IN ALL OUR DIESEL ENGINES AND HAVEN'T HAD A WISPER OF A PROBLEM. IT'S NON SYNTHETIC AND DESIGNED FOR SEVERE USE LIKE DIESELS. I TOO AM NOT A MECHENIC BUT AM RESPONSIBLE FOR ABOUT 30 DIESEL ENGINES FROM VEHICLES TO 12 CYL CAT GENRATORS...HOPE THIS HELPS
WE'VE USED RPM DELO OIL FOR YEARS IN ALL OUR DIESEL ENGINES AND HAVEN'T HAD A WISPER OF A PROBLEM. IT'S NON SYNTHETIC AND DESIGNED FOR SEVERE USE LIKE DIESELS. I TOO AM NOT A MECHENIC BUT AM RESPONSIBLE FOR ABOUT 30 DIESEL ENGINES FROM VEHICLES TO 12 CYL CAT GENRATORS...HOPE THIS HELPS
why--
i am just a week minded mechanical engineer -- but why would you want a synthetic oil-- one of the major functions of lubrication is to suspend and remove contamination-- I change oil in everything I own at 3/4 the recommended cycle- cars and trucks get it every 2500 miles and stationary engines every 50 hours - (I consider a small boat diesel a stationed engine). Changing oil is the cheapest thing you can do for any engine- I have trucks that have gone over 300,000 miles on a 2.5 liter motor - I was at a yanmar seminar a few months ago and out of 40 people there- no one would disagree with the yanmar position relative to synthetic oils - " when synthetic oil manufactures start building diesels then they can recommend their products in them" Hope someone has a good answer for why I am really interested in knowing
i am just a week minded mechanical engineer -- but why would you want a synthetic oil-- one of the major functions of lubrication is to suspend and remove contamination-- I change oil in everything I own at 3/4 the recommended cycle- cars and trucks get it every 2500 miles and stationary engines every 50 hours - (I consider a small boat diesel a stationed engine). Changing oil is the cheapest thing you can do for any engine- I have trucks that have gone over 300,000 miles on a 2.5 liter motor - I was at a yanmar seminar a few months ago and out of 40 people there- no one would disagree with the yanmar position relative to synthetic oils - " when synthetic oil manufactures start building diesels then they can recommend their products in them" Hope someone has a good answer for why I am really interested in knowing
By the book
Relax, Yanmar has no interest in having its products fail prematurely. They employ lots of highly paid engineers who do lots of testing of every component of the engines they sell. The benefit of their knowledge is printed in the manual that came with your engine. If Yanmar felt that their engines would perform better by simply using synthetic lubricants they would recommend them. Since they do not, I believe that they feel there is nothing to gain by their use. Who do you think know their engines better, Yanmar or some snake oil salesman? Marine engines actually lead relatively easy lives. Seldom are they asked to start in temperatures below 55F, they are usually allowed to warm up to operating temperature before they are asked to perform, they are usually run at full operating temperature for at least ten or fifteen minutes before being shut down, and they are stored in a relatively clean, nearly sealed compartments. They normally run between 2 and 3 thousand hours between overhauls (many go longer). If maintained by the book, you will find virtually no failures to do with the type of oil used. I am a mechanical engineer who has at times had the title of lubrication engineer, but I am not prepared to do anyting to my engines, marine, industrial, or automotive, that is not by the book. My knowledge is nothing compared to the guys who built, wrote the book, and provide a warranty for my engine. Incidently, none of my current road velicles have less than 100k miles, none use synthetic crankcase oil, and the 1.8 litre gasoline-engined Golf we traded a few years ago had 236k miles on a perfectly performing engine that used no oil(everything but the engine was shot). What more do you want? You will not own your Yanmar long enough to wear it out if you maintain it by the book. I'll bet that the best you will hear from Yanmar when you call is that synthetics will probably do no harm. They will recommend against synthetics during the breakin period. To me thats less than a resounding recommendation. Why waste your money? I'd like to hear what they say.
Relax, Yanmar has no interest in having its products fail prematurely. They employ lots of highly paid engineers who do lots of testing of every component of the engines they sell. The benefit of their knowledge is printed in the manual that came with your engine. If Yanmar felt that their engines would perform better by simply using synthetic lubricants they would recommend them. Since they do not, I believe that they feel there is nothing to gain by their use. Who do you think know their engines better, Yanmar or some snake oil salesman? Marine engines actually lead relatively easy lives. Seldom are they asked to start in temperatures below 55F, they are usually allowed to warm up to operating temperature before they are asked to perform, they are usually run at full operating temperature for at least ten or fifteen minutes before being shut down, and they are stored in a relatively clean, nearly sealed compartments. They normally run between 2 and 3 thousand hours between overhauls (many go longer). If maintained by the book, you will find virtually no failures to do with the type of oil used. I am a mechanical engineer who has at times had the title of lubrication engineer, but I am not prepared to do anyting to my engines, marine, industrial, or automotive, that is not by the book. My knowledge is nothing compared to the guys who built, wrote the book, and provide a warranty for my engine. Incidently, none of my current road velicles have less than 100k miles, none use synthetic crankcase oil, and the 1.8 litre gasoline-engined Golf we traded a few years ago had 236k miles on a perfectly performing engine that used no oil(everything but the engine was shot). What more do you want? You will not own your Yanmar long enough to wear it out if you maintain it by the book. I'll bet that the best you will hear from Yanmar when you call is that synthetics will probably do no harm. They will recommend against synthetics during the breakin period. To me thats less than a resounding recommendation. Why waste your money? I'd like to hear what they say.
Food for thought
If you guys did not read a post recently, one of the HOW members has a single cylinder Yanmar and mentioned that the engine runs cooler and quiter on synthetic. I personally have no need for the synthetics either but there may be some merit to their use. As far as using synthetics in a new engine, it is almost alway recommended that you break them in on conventional oils and then switch. Synthetics reduce the friction to the point that the engine parts do not seat properly. Porsche is one of the few engines that uses Mobil 1 in their new engines and I do not know why. As far as the engine life of a PROPERLY maintained Yanmar. I was told by my mechanic at Richmond Boat Works in Richmond, CA. That you should expect 12,000 - 15,000 hours before you would need a replacement. Based on the number of hours that most of the members have talked about they and the rest of the boat will probably be long gone before these boats see that number of hours. Bottom line here is, if there is something going on with your engine that justifies putting 2 quarts of $5/quart oil in your boat, then maybe you should consider it. But if the real reason is that you think it is going to reduce the number of oil changes or extend the life of the engine then you are probably barking up the wrong exhaust hose. Keep the oil clean and don't overheat the engine and it will be with you longer than you will be with it.
If you guys did not read a post recently, one of the HOW members has a single cylinder Yanmar and mentioned that the engine runs cooler and quiter on synthetic. I personally have no need for the synthetics either but there may be some merit to their use. As far as using synthetics in a new engine, it is almost alway recommended that you break them in on conventional oils and then switch. Synthetics reduce the friction to the point that the engine parts do not seat properly. Porsche is one of the few engines that uses Mobil 1 in their new engines and I do not know why. As far as the engine life of a PROPERLY maintained Yanmar. I was told by my mechanic at Richmond Boat Works in Richmond, CA. That you should expect 12,000 - 15,000 hours before you would need a replacement. Based on the number of hours that most of the members have talked about they and the rest of the boat will probably be long gone before these boats see that number of hours. Bottom line here is, if there is something going on with your engine that justifies putting 2 quarts of $5/quart oil in your boat, then maybe you should consider it. But if the real reason is that you think it is going to reduce the number of oil changes or extend the life of the engine then you are probably barking up the wrong exhaust hose. Keep the oil clean and don't overheat the engine and it will be with you longer than you will be with it.
More food
I don't want to sound down on synthetic lubricants. I use a synthetic in the manual trasmission of my Miata. There are times when they are very useful, and times when they are of no advantage. I have heard stories from automotive sources that in some applications they leak through seals prematurely. I have no clue what happens to the stuff when (if?) it burns in the combustion chamber of a diesel and no clue as to how it performs in the sulfuric acid bath that oil in a diesel engine becomes. Yanmar may not either, so they are understanably cool about synthetics. Lubricating properties are only part of the story. Incidently, there are many flavors of synthetics for sale. Subjecting them all to a full round of durability test could be an expensive and daunting task. As for Porsche. Since they changed to water cooled engines in the 911, I can't say what their manufacturing process is, but ten years ago all Porsche engines were hand assembled by one person. The final assembly step was a 20 minute run on the dyno. Rings were seated, and torque and power curves were tested against a standard. Records were kept. Every 911 that left the factory was driven for (I think) five miles on the street, including an autobahn run, as a final quality check - no wonder they cost so much. Every 911 delivered was at least partly broken in at the factory. Porsches live in the real world and must start when it is -10F, and run at 140 mph on the autobahn the same day, maybe only a few minutes after start. European drivers of high performance cars can be merciless (most Americans would say nuts). Daunting work for any lubricant, and synthetics shine under these conditions. You can bet Porsche has many thousands of test hours invested in the lubricants they recommend. Yanmar does too, they just may not have tested all of their engines with all of the flavors of synthetics available. I think Porsche recommends only Mobil 1 (not sure).
I don't want to sound down on synthetic lubricants. I use a synthetic in the manual trasmission of my Miata. There are times when they are very useful, and times when they are of no advantage. I have heard stories from automotive sources that in some applications they leak through seals prematurely. I have no clue what happens to the stuff when (if?) it burns in the combustion chamber of a diesel and no clue as to how it performs in the sulfuric acid bath that oil in a diesel engine becomes. Yanmar may not either, so they are understanably cool about synthetics. Lubricating properties are only part of the story. Incidently, there are many flavors of synthetics for sale. Subjecting them all to a full round of durability test could be an expensive and daunting task. As for Porsche. Since they changed to water cooled engines in the 911, I can't say what their manufacturing process is, but ten years ago all Porsche engines were hand assembled by one person. The final assembly step was a 20 minute run on the dyno. Rings were seated, and torque and power curves were tested against a standard. Records were kept. Every 911 that left the factory was driven for (I think) five miles on the street, including an autobahn run, as a final quality check - no wonder they cost so much. Every 911 delivered was at least partly broken in at the factory. Porsches live in the real world and must start when it is -10F, and run at 140 mph on the autobahn the same day, maybe only a few minutes after start. European drivers of high performance cars can be merciless (most Americans would say nuts). Daunting work for any lubricant, and synthetics shine under these conditions. You can bet Porsche has many thousands of test hours invested in the lubricants they recommend. Yanmar does too, they just may not have tested all of their engines with all of the flavors of synthetics available. I think Porsche recommends only Mobil 1 (not sure).
synthehtic vs regualr oil
I am not an engineer or a chemist but I have used Mobil 1 in my Porsche and boat engines for years. It has performed very well in both. I have noticed that the auto engine does burn more oil using the synthetic than regular but not on the boat diesel. As I understand it, the difference is in how the qualities of the oil changes across temperature and pressure ranges. Regular oil does not perform well when very cold or too hot. If it gets hot enough and under sufficient pressure, the regular oil can actully "crack", changing the hydrocarbon structure of the oil and its qualities as a lubricant oil. The most easilly noticeable change is the oil's viscosity, when cold it is thick like syrup and runs like water when hot. Synthetic oil maintains the same level of viscosity over a subatantially wider temp and pressure range. Synthetic oil is not supposed to "crack" to my knowledge. This is especailly important if you live somewhere very hot or very cold. Because the synthetic does not break down the way natural oil does, it has a longer useful life and will keep your engine that much better protected. I think it is worth the extra $20 every change. You can probably get a complete analysis from Exxon Mobil. Of course it is always important to use the recommended spec oil for the engine in question whether synthetic or regular.
I am not an engineer or a chemist but I have used Mobil 1 in my Porsche and boat engines for years. It has performed very well in both. I have noticed that the auto engine does burn more oil using the synthetic than regular but not on the boat diesel. As I understand it, the difference is in how the qualities of the oil changes across temperature and pressure ranges. Regular oil does not perform well when very cold or too hot. If it gets hot enough and under sufficient pressure, the regular oil can actully "crack", changing the hydrocarbon structure of the oil and its qualities as a lubricant oil. The most easilly noticeable change is the oil's viscosity, when cold it is thick like syrup and runs like water when hot. Synthetic oil maintains the same level of viscosity over a subatantially wider temp and pressure range. Synthetic oil is not supposed to "crack" to my knowledge. This is especailly important if you live somewhere very hot or very cold. Because the synthetic does not break down the way natural oil does, it has a longer useful life and will keep your engine that much better protected. I think it is worth the extra $20 every change. You can probably get a complete analysis from Exxon Mobil. Of course it is always important to use the recommended spec oil for the engine in question whether synthetic or regular.
Synthetic is the Only Way to Go!
Synthetic oil is the only way to go! I also use Slick50 (after the break-in period) Now, I suppose that everyone who said that they didn't use synthetic oils follows all of the procedures by the book: Right? For example: anyone use the 3 minute prelube technique described in the Yanmar engine to start it? Or do you just start it up? After checking the oil level, I just start up the engine with nothing to worry about. Another example, ever idle the engine when the boat is heeling more than17 degrees? I am sure that you have at some point! Either of these situations and many more can put some serious damage to your engine. For two $5 quarts, I have peace of mind and good protection that regular oils don't help much.
Synthetic oil is the only way to go! I also use Slick50 (after the break-in period) Now, I suppose that everyone who said that they didn't use synthetic oils follows all of the procedures by the book: Right? For example: anyone use the 3 minute prelube technique described in the Yanmar engine to start it? Or do you just start it up? After checking the oil level, I just start up the engine with nothing to worry about. Another example, ever idle the engine when the boat is heeling more than17 degrees? I am sure that you have at some point! Either of these situations and many more can put some serious damage to your engine. For two $5 quarts, I have peace of mind and good protection that regular oils don't help much.
GrazeABull 5225
Supper Stuff- Only available through high tech distributors in Iowa. In fact my brother in law has the pyramid market cornered on this product. Little expensive though 18.27/ qt. But he assures me I can run my Yanmar from a cold start of -10 degree F - Totally Inverted - for 60 hours. At this cost it has to be the best product in the market place. But you have to move fast to get a case-the infomercials start on cable TV next month and he is sure the demand will ratchet up the price and destroy the limited supply. Most importantly this is a totally organic product, the only draw back is that the slight amount of methane that may accumulate in the crankcase could be explosive under certain conditions.
Supper Stuff- Only available through high tech distributors in Iowa. In fact my brother in law has the pyramid market cornered on this product. Little expensive though 18.27/ qt. But he assures me I can run my Yanmar from a cold start of -10 degree F - Totally Inverted - for 60 hours. At this cost it has to be the best product in the market place. But you have to move fast to get a case-the infomercials start on cable TV next month and he is sure the demand will ratchet up the price and destroy the limited supply. Most importantly this is a totally organic product, the only draw back is that the slight amount of methane that may accumulate in the crankcase could be explosive under certain conditions.
More on GrazeABull 5225
Actually, I think the price for this synthetic is going down as it has been discovered that the raw material for this product is more widely distributed than previously thought, often being found in such place as state legislatures, the halls of Congress and other public buildings.....
Actually, I think the price for this synthetic is going down as it has been discovered that the raw material for this product is more widely distributed than previously thought, often being found in such place as state legislatures, the halls of Congress and other public buildings.....
No syntetic oil on Yanmars..
..thats what Yanmar expert advised reg my 2GM20F one. I happen to read an article on that just few months ago on a UK sailing magazine.
..thats what Yanmar expert advised reg my 2GM20F one. I happen to read an article on that just few months ago on a UK sailing magazine.
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