I have removed the Keel on my 1974 Catalina 22 and have begun grinding off the rust. It's not to bad but the grinder is making the surface uneven as it takes off layers of the epoxy. Does anyone have ant advice on how to go about completing this task? Should I grind the whole thing down to bare metal? What should I use to cover the keel once it is sanded down? Has anyone done this before?
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Brandon
Grind it all off...
I just finished what you are starting except that I didn't remove the keel completely. I dropped it down as much as I could without removing the keel from below the keel trunk. Even though I have a grinder I rented an autobody sander for $8.00. I figured it would save the wear and tear on my equipment for little expense. Then starting with 36 grit paper I sanded it back to bare metal. The total sanding process took about two hours. I recommend that you use a 6" sander with a handle on the side thus allowing the leverage to grind the stubborn paint and epoxy all the way off. I then primed it with metal primer from West Marine (3 coats) which is the whole quart ($21.00). I finished with three coats of bottom paint. This is what was recommended by West Marine to do and it looks great. It is nice knowing that even though you can't see the finished product, unless you trailer a lot, it is done properly. Brandon
I just finished what you are starting except that I didn't remove the keel completely. I dropped it down as much as I could without removing the keel from below the keel trunk. Even though I have a grinder I rented an autobody sander for $8.00. I figured it would save the wear and tear on my equipment for little expense. Then starting with 36 grit paper I sanded it back to bare metal. The total sanding process took about two hours. I recommend that you use a 6" sander with a handle on the side thus allowing the leverage to grind the stubborn paint and epoxy all the way off. I then primed it with metal primer from West Marine (3 coats) which is the whole quart ($21.00). I finished with three coats of bottom paint. This is what was recommended by West Marine to do and it looks great. It is nice knowing that even though you can't see the finished product, unless you trailer a lot, it is done properly. Brandon
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Matt
Suggestions
If you want to do it right, grind it to bare metal. To eliminate some of the gouging, hold the grinder at a flatter angle and don't spend too much time in one place (the object is to get the paint off on the first go round). Change the wheel to a finer grit to finish the job off. Once you have completed that you should wipe it down with a clean rag and solvent to get the dust and particles off. Begin painting IMMEDIATELY. Use Interlux Vinylux Primewash 353/354?? on the bare metal to form a tie coat. It is a yellow substance that goes on a little thicker than water. You will be able to see the bare metal under this and that is okay. One coat will do the trick. $13.99/quart, you will use 1/2 a pint to do this job. Next paint a coat of Interlux Interprotect 2000/2001. Let it dry. Use Interlux Watertite to form a thin coat to protect from the elements if you find any cracks or uneven spots. Sand it smooth. It goes on like butter and sands easily. Paint 2-3 more coats of the Interprotect 2000/2001. Add at least 2 coats of your bottom paint and you are done. A gallon of the Interprotect 2000/2001 will be about $50.00 and should be more than enough to finish the project. Total cost will be about $75-$100 (not including bottom paint) but it is well worth it. I'll be sailing for the next couple of years while the others at the club are hauling and scraping each season. Good Luck!
If you want to do it right, grind it to bare metal. To eliminate some of the gouging, hold the grinder at a flatter angle and don't spend too much time in one place (the object is to get the paint off on the first go round). Change the wheel to a finer grit to finish the job off. Once you have completed that you should wipe it down with a clean rag and solvent to get the dust and particles off. Begin painting IMMEDIATELY. Use Interlux Vinylux Primewash 353/354?? on the bare metal to form a tie coat. It is a yellow substance that goes on a little thicker than water. You will be able to see the bare metal under this and that is okay. One coat will do the trick. $13.99/quart, you will use 1/2 a pint to do this job. Next paint a coat of Interlux Interprotect 2000/2001. Let it dry. Use Interlux Watertite to form a thin coat to protect from the elements if you find any cracks or uneven spots. Sand it smooth. It goes on like butter and sands easily. Paint 2-3 more coats of the Interprotect 2000/2001. Add at least 2 coats of your bottom paint and you are done. A gallon of the Interprotect 2000/2001 will be about $50.00 and should be more than enough to finish the project. Total cost will be about $75-$100 (not including bottom paint) but it is well worth it. I'll be sailing for the next couple of years while the others at the club are hauling and scraping each season. Good Luck!
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Dave of Nature's Cradle
I wrote a response to this but !!!
Someone has removed it, So I will again state it briefly. For rust that you cannot get to with a tool, use Pool Acid to remove it. It worked great on metal gas tanks and will work for you. Removing the epoxy is another matter. Always wear at least a mask when grinding that stuff. Hope this helps Dave
Someone has removed it, So I will again state it briefly. For rust that you cannot get to with a tool, use Pool Acid to remove it. It worked great on metal gas tanks and will work for you. Removing the epoxy is another matter. Always wear at least a mask when grinding that stuff. Hope this helps Dave
L
Leon Sisson
Swing keel refurb. (long)
Chris, I've reconditioned two cast iron swing keels so far. The first was for a Venture 22, the most recent my 1979 Catalina 25. Here's what I did to them: After removing the keel from the boat, I had it sandblasted to "bright" metal. Done right, this is so not fun that I cheerfully paid someone else to do it both times, even though I own a sandblaster and two compressors. As soon as I got the keel back from blasting, I etched it with hydrochloric acid (a.k.a. industrial strength toilet bowl cleaner - be carefull!) to remove the rust remaining in tiny pores, rinsed it with lots of water, and then treated it with two coats of phosphoric acid (a.k.a. "Ospho"). After that was thoroughly dry, I used a stiff nylon scrub brush to remove any dusty residue. Keep a garden hose handy when working with strong acids. Don't let acid spills remain on concrete that you care about. Don't wear clothes that you care about for any of this work. I believe it's very important to get rid of all existing rust before encapsulating the keel. I think we've all seen how even a small amount of rust expands and spreads over time, even under a waterproof coating such as paint. At this point, the surface of the keel looks like pitted moonscape. Next, I applied two coats of WEST epoxy. This is done to seal the iron from exposure to oxygen, including water. At this point, the surface of the keel still looks like moonscape, but with a glaze. Then I made up fairing putty from WEST with filler additives (407), and rough faired the keel. If one were to get lazy, and apply bottom paint before this step, and then at some later point in time decide to fair the keel, getting the paint off of the rough surface (glazed moonscape) would surely be an agrevating task (a.k.a. big pain in the ...). After rough fairing, I wrapped the keel in two layers of 14oz. fiberglass cloth and WEST epoxy. This was done to protect it from misc. abrasion in the future. This step also serves to assure atleast a minmum thickness of epoxy over any raw cast iron high spots that may have become exposed while sanding down the rough fairing. At this point I also added a bronze shoe where the keel runs aground, and piled on several more layers of cloth and epoxy in that area, and along the leading edge. On the first keel I did, I tried leaving off the bronze shoe. The fiberglass quickly wore away where the keel touched bottom in shallow water. If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, feel free to skip this step. (If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, you can probably walk on water too.) I then did another round of final fairing on top of the fiberglass (WEST with 410) before applying copolymer bottom paint and reinstalling the keel. The hardest part of all this by far was dealing with the weight of the keel. The 500# one could be wrestled around by three people. The 1,500# one was a bit more of a challenge. This has been discussed on the Trailer Sailor BBS many times in detail. If there can be a good side to all this work, it's that if you do it right, you don't have to do it again. Good luck with whatever method you decide to use. -- Leon Sisson
Chris, I've reconditioned two cast iron swing keels so far. The first was for a Venture 22, the most recent my 1979 Catalina 25. Here's what I did to them: After removing the keel from the boat, I had it sandblasted to "bright" metal. Done right, this is so not fun that I cheerfully paid someone else to do it both times, even though I own a sandblaster and two compressors. As soon as I got the keel back from blasting, I etched it with hydrochloric acid (a.k.a. industrial strength toilet bowl cleaner - be carefull!) to remove the rust remaining in tiny pores, rinsed it with lots of water, and then treated it with two coats of phosphoric acid (a.k.a. "Ospho"). After that was thoroughly dry, I used a stiff nylon scrub brush to remove any dusty residue. Keep a garden hose handy when working with strong acids. Don't let acid spills remain on concrete that you care about. Don't wear clothes that you care about for any of this work. I believe it's very important to get rid of all existing rust before encapsulating the keel. I think we've all seen how even a small amount of rust expands and spreads over time, even under a waterproof coating such as paint. At this point, the surface of the keel looks like pitted moonscape. Next, I applied two coats of WEST epoxy. This is done to seal the iron from exposure to oxygen, including water. At this point, the surface of the keel still looks like moonscape, but with a glaze. Then I made up fairing putty from WEST with filler additives (407), and rough faired the keel. If one were to get lazy, and apply bottom paint before this step, and then at some later point in time decide to fair the keel, getting the paint off of the rough surface (glazed moonscape) would surely be an agrevating task (a.k.a. big pain in the ...). After rough fairing, I wrapped the keel in two layers of 14oz. fiberglass cloth and WEST epoxy. This was done to protect it from misc. abrasion in the future. This step also serves to assure atleast a minmum thickness of epoxy over any raw cast iron high spots that may have become exposed while sanding down the rough fairing. At this point I also added a bronze shoe where the keel runs aground, and piled on several more layers of cloth and epoxy in that area, and along the leading edge. On the first keel I did, I tried leaving off the bronze shoe. The fiberglass quickly wore away where the keel touched bottom in shallow water. If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, feel free to skip this step. (If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, you can probably walk on water too.) I then did another round of final fairing on top of the fiberglass (WEST with 410) before applying copolymer bottom paint and reinstalling the keel. The hardest part of all this by far was dealing with the weight of the keel. The 500# one could be wrestled around by three people. The 1,500# one was a bit more of a challenge. This has been discussed on the Trailer Sailor BBS many times in detail. If there can be a good side to all this work, it's that if you do it right, you don't have to do it again. Good luck with whatever method you decide to use. -- Leon Sisson
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David Wilson
keel refinishing
My keel refinishing technique is down and dirty, although it is perhaps uninformed (what harm might I be doing?). At the time that I sand and repaint the bottom, I also remove rust, scale and barnacles (salt water) on the keel by using a cheap wire whisker rotary device in my electric drill. I just remove whatever is loose, wash it down, and put on the bottom paint. Somehow I believe that any more than that is for people who care much more about perfection than I do. I simply do not think the keel itself (which no one ever sees) needs more attention than that. I'd love to know who out there disagrees with me.
My keel refinishing technique is down and dirty, although it is perhaps uninformed (what harm might I be doing?). At the time that I sand and repaint the bottom, I also remove rust, scale and barnacles (salt water) on the keel by using a cheap wire whisker rotary device in my electric drill. I just remove whatever is loose, wash it down, and put on the bottom paint. Somehow I believe that any more than that is for people who care much more about perfection than I do. I simply do not think the keel itself (which no one ever sees) needs more attention than that. I'd love to know who out there disagrees with me.
J
Joe Voss
Not So Fast!
I just went thorough this and what everyone is neglecting to tell you is that you need to "Shape " your keel. I bought the video from Catalina direct which includes A "Foil" Pattern to guide you where and how much bondo you need to put on. The result is DRAMATICALLY better Tracking and even helm...very glad I did it right! the video is worth its weight in gold!
I just went thorough this and what everyone is neglecting to tell you is that you need to "Shape " your keel. I bought the video from Catalina direct which includes A "Foil" Pattern to guide you where and how much bondo you need to put on. The result is DRAMATICALLY better Tracking and even helm...very glad I did it right! the video is worth its weight in gold!
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