I'm considering buying a bigger boat.....all I have at the moment is a Sunfish, so almost everything else is "bigger", and I'm curious about everyone's experience with swing-keel boats like a Catalina 22. does anyone know is that's the biggest swing-keel model that was made? I'm probably going to be trailering my purchase, and would like to be able to launch and recover it from a ramp, so the flexibility of the swing-keel appeals to me, especially since right now I'm used to pulling up the dagger board of my Sunfish so often in this inland lake I sail. At a dry summer's end, even some of the marina slips are running out of water! Any advice?
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C-22
You can't go wrong with a C-22. I had one for several years. Make sure the keel cable and winch are in good shape. Lube as necessary. You'll want a tongue extension on the trailer with a good pivoting wheel, preferebly with a bigger inflatable tire. You can tow it with a Toyota and the trailer doesn't need brakes - at least in CA. I used to launch in salt water so took the brakes out. I went with a wire harness on a light bar I built so the taillight/signal electrics wouldn't keep getting wet. Have fun.
You can't go wrong with a C-22. I had one for several years. Make sure the keel cable and winch are in good shape. Lube as necessary. You'll want a tongue extension on the trailer with a good pivoting wheel, preferebly with a bigger inflatable tire. You can tow it with a Toyota and the trailer doesn't need brakes - at least in CA. I used to launch in salt water so took the brakes out. I went with a wire harness on a light bar I built so the taillight/signal electrics wouldn't keep getting wet. Have fun.
There's a really bristol
2001 HUNTER h260 listed in the classified ads at this website under "date placed" 10-9-07!!! Good luck, with whatever you buy!!! Paul
2001 HUNTER h260 listed in the classified ads at this website under "date placed" 10-9-07!!! Good luck, with whatever you buy!!! Paul
Swing keel or center board?
Levioso: Your Morgan 46 has a weighted swing keel, or is it actually a centerboard? I was looking at an '83 Morgan 45 for 80k with a CB. What a beautiful boat it was. Don't know if your 46 is similar. This one was a Nelson Marek design.
Levioso: Your Morgan 46 has a weighted swing keel, or is it actually a centerboard? I was looking at an '83 Morgan 45 for 80k with a CB. What a beautiful boat it was. Don't know if your 46 is similar. This one was a Nelson Marek design.
Catalina 22
Rod, My wife and I have a Catalina 22 swing, and love it. We sail it on Henderson Bay which is on Lake Ontario. My first boat was a sunfish ( over 40 years ago) and the fact that the wind blows them both around is about the only thing they have in common. The C-22 is where you just begin to feel the big boat feel. It is by no means a large boat, but it handles very nice and will take alot. With the keel up it draws only 2' of water. You can also get the Catalina 25 in a swing, but this is a much larger boat to pull. We leave ours in a slip, and only trailer it to and from the lake. I know alot of people trailer theirs every time they use it, but that is not for me. If you can get a slip I think you will find that you use it more. There are alot of them around, and the price will reflect the condition and age. We have put quite a bit of money in ours and I would do it all again. We see alot of real nice "big" boats and most sit in the slips all summer. We are on ours every week-end, and have a ball. Great boat and you can get every part you need for them easly. Try and talk to someone who has one. Dale
Rod, My wife and I have a Catalina 22 swing, and love it. We sail it on Henderson Bay which is on Lake Ontario. My first boat was a sunfish ( over 40 years ago) and the fact that the wind blows them both around is about the only thing they have in common. The C-22 is where you just begin to feel the big boat feel. It is by no means a large boat, but it handles very nice and will take alot. With the keel up it draws only 2' of water. You can also get the Catalina 25 in a swing, but this is a much larger boat to pull. We leave ours in a slip, and only trailer it to and from the lake. I know alot of people trailer theirs every time they use it, but that is not for me. If you can get a slip I think you will find that you use it more. There are alot of them around, and the price will reflect the condition and age. We have put quite a bit of money in ours and I would do it all again. We see alot of real nice "big" boats and most sit in the slips all summer. We are on ours every week-end, and have a ball. Great boat and you can get every part you need for them easly. Try and talk to someone who has one. Dale
Higgs, Its a swing keel
Specificly its a swing keel but yes its advertised as a centerboard....the board is aweighted design, lead wrapped in glass,,,,and weighs about 200#. It has a piviot point forward 1 1/2"ss,,,with an aft rope pennant pick up point.....The only problem we have with this design is the pick up point on the pennant should have been designed farther aft, as it is now the mecanical leverage could be better. Ours is also a Nelson Merrik design. classified as a 46 CB sloop., shes fast.. and yes they are nice boats, ours is Hull 12 of the runin 1985.
Specificly its a swing keel but yes its advertised as a centerboard....the board is aweighted design, lead wrapped in glass,,,,and weighs about 200#. It has a piviot point forward 1 1/2"ss,,,with an aft rope pennant pick up point.....The only problem we have with this design is the pick up point on the pennant should have been designed farther aft, as it is now the mecanical leverage could be better. Ours is also a Nelson Merrik design. classified as a 46 CB sloop., shes fast.. and yes they are nice boats, ours is Hull 12 of the runin 1985.
Swing keel v. centerboards
The Catalina 22 is the most popular production sailboat ever made; however, I don't think the swing keel is the best answer for a trailerable boat. I prefer the stub keel/centerboard combination such as on the Oday 22, 23 and 25. With the swing keel, all of your ballast is in the swinging centerboard. It hangs on the boat with one pin. Catalina has made a zillion of these things and has come up with a pretty good unit, but its still requires a crank and needs periodic maintenance. Not for me. I like the stub keel, with the ballast encapsulated within the hull. The centerboard is unweighted and is directly controlled with a single line lead to the cockpit. Up and down with one hand, no cranks, pistons or mechanical device needed. Simpler, safer and easier to maintain. Granted, unlike Oday, Catalina is still in business and can support your older 22. However, all other things being equal, I would go with the Oday. That being said, if confronted with a choice between an Oday 22 or 23 and a Catalina 22, I would choose the boat that is in better shape. They are all great boats. What is the biggest boat with a centerboard? If you mean the biggest truly trailerable centerboard boat, I would say the Catalina 25 or the Oday 25. I think there are some water ballasted boats that might be a little bigger (Hunter?), but I hear that because they carry their ballast higher, they don't sail as well as the centerboard boats.
The Catalina 22 is the most popular production sailboat ever made; however, I don't think the swing keel is the best answer for a trailerable boat. I prefer the stub keel/centerboard combination such as on the Oday 22, 23 and 25. With the swing keel, all of your ballast is in the swinging centerboard. It hangs on the boat with one pin. Catalina has made a zillion of these things and has come up with a pretty good unit, but its still requires a crank and needs periodic maintenance. Not for me. I like the stub keel, with the ballast encapsulated within the hull. The centerboard is unweighted and is directly controlled with a single line lead to the cockpit. Up and down with one hand, no cranks, pistons or mechanical device needed. Simpler, safer and easier to maintain. Granted, unlike Oday, Catalina is still in business and can support your older 22. However, all other things being equal, I would go with the Oday. That being said, if confronted with a choice between an Oday 22 or 23 and a Catalina 22, I would choose the boat that is in better shape. They are all great boats. What is the biggest boat with a centerboard? If you mean the biggest truly trailerable centerboard boat, I would say the Catalina 25 or the Oday 25. I think there are some water ballasted boats that might be a little bigger (Hunter?), but I hear that because they carry their ballast higher, they don't sail as well as the centerboard boats.
Agree with Mike
I have a Precision 23 with stub and center board as Mike described. It's nice to have the ballast without the depth requirement. Gives you more of a big boat feel. The wife likes. It does require deeper water at the ramp than a Hunter 23.5 or 240. If you really are going to always trailer, then the 23.5 and 240 would probably better for that. I only trailer in the spring and fall. JerryA
I have a Precision 23 with stub and center board as Mike described. It's nice to have the ballast without the depth requirement. Gives you more of a big boat feel. The wife likes. It does require deeper water at the ramp than a Hunter 23.5 or 240. If you really are going to always trailer, then the 23.5 and 240 would probably better for that. I only trailer in the spring and fall. JerryA
Amen to Mike
There is a substantial difference between a swing keel and a centerboard boat. With the swing keel, several hundred pounds are bearing on the pivot pin and on the lifting pendant. Regardless of how big or new the pin is, you will need to check it periodically, and if it is old you should be losing some sleep if you haven't had a look at it in a while. A friend's pendant parted when his swing keel was in the up position - the shock of the impact when it dropped cracked the trunk and the boat leaked enough that it had to be hauled quickly and repaired. With a well-designed shoal-keel-centerboard boat, it will sail fine with the board up and the pin will live in a far less demanding environment. The boat will need a foot or two more depth for launching, but that's about the only downside.
There is a substantial difference between a swing keel and a centerboard boat. With the swing keel, several hundred pounds are bearing on the pivot pin and on the lifting pendant. Regardless of how big or new the pin is, you will need to check it periodically, and if it is old you should be losing some sleep if you haven't had a look at it in a while. A friend's pendant parted when his swing keel was in the up position - the shock of the impact when it dropped cracked the trunk and the boat leaked enough that it had to be hauled quickly and repaired. With a well-designed shoal-keel-centerboard boat, it will sail fine with the board up and the pin will live in a far less demanding environment. The boat will need a foot or two more depth for launching, but that's about the only downside.
I've had my Ericson
25 for one season. The swing keel weighs in at about 150# and is operated from the cockpit. Many other boats are operated from inside the cabin. Keel up it draws 2' - down 5'. Very stable boat with 2400# molded lead ballast. Very easy to launch and retrive.
25 for one season. The swing keel weighs in at about 150# and is operated from the cockpit. Many other boats are operated from inside the cabin. Keel up it draws 2' - down 5'. Very stable boat with 2400# molded lead ballast. Very easy to launch and retrive.
Another vote for the shoal centerboarder
I'm a big fan of the shoal keel / centerboard setup in my hunter 23, however there is one major difference between it and the P-23 / Oday 22 : The centerboard doesnt go inside of the keel, it pivots up and down behind it! This has an interesting effect, that I personally love: In following seas, with the board up, the boat tracks quite well, with close to 8 feet of "length" to the keel. Flip it down, and voila, you go from full-keeled, shoal(2') -draft to a 5' draft fin-keeler for those tight turns and good pointing. Then again, wetted surface is not reduced board-up like it is in the precision and oday. Tradeoffs.. I have an f150, and it hauls my 2300 lb boat pretty good. on any decent ramp, I just barely need to get my back tires wet. The key here is that having the hitch LOW on the truck helps a lot!
I'm a big fan of the shoal keel / centerboard setup in my hunter 23, however there is one major difference between it and the P-23 / Oday 22 : The centerboard doesnt go inside of the keel, it pivots up and down behind it! This has an interesting effect, that I personally love: In following seas, with the board up, the boat tracks quite well, with close to 8 feet of "length" to the keel. Flip it down, and voila, you go from full-keeled, shoal(2') -draft to a 5' draft fin-keeler for those tight turns and good pointing. Then again, wetted surface is not reduced board-up like it is in the precision and oday. Tradeoffs.. I have an f150, and it hauls my 2300 lb boat pretty good. on any decent ramp, I just barely need to get my back tires wet. The key here is that having the hitch LOW on the truck helps a lot!
Rod, another thought and lesson learned the hard
way. Get the biggest boat that you can comfortably afford. Less expense and less desire to trade when you learn your way. Bigger is better.
way. Get the biggest boat that you can comfortably afford. Less expense and less desire to trade when you learn your way. Bigger is better.
Catalina C25 is a nice boat
Lots of information and boats for sale here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/forum.asp?forum_id=5 Also, dare I say it, Chrysler 26s are supposed to be good sailors. However, I don't know if any are in great condition any more. You might have to do a lot of work on one of those. But, I like working on boats.
Lots of information and boats for sale here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/forum.asp?forum_id=5 Also, dare I say it, Chrysler 26s are supposed to be good sailors. However, I don't know if any are in great condition any more. You might have to do a lot of work on one of those. But, I like working on boats.
choices
We have a Catalina 22 Swing Keel. I started sailing with an El Toro, then moved up to a Lido 14, and now the Catalina. My next boat will probably be a C 25 or a Hunter 26, or maybe a McGregor 26. It was a sweetheart to move up to. I felt comfortable the first hour I took it out. However it is a pain to rig (about 45 minutes). Keep the boat on a trailer in the back yard and enjoy not paying for a marina space during the winter months, even though we sail in the winter (san Francisco bay area plus the delta and various lakes) I think that a C22 would be a logical next step for your next bigger boat. However.... Do you want to just cruise or race? Catalina has a really good club support that includes cruising and racing, but it will not be as fast as others, such as a Santana 22 or a Moore 24 with a fixed keel. Shop around and go for some rides/races before deciding.
We have a Catalina 22 Swing Keel. I started sailing with an El Toro, then moved up to a Lido 14, and now the Catalina. My next boat will probably be a C 25 or a Hunter 26, or maybe a McGregor 26. It was a sweetheart to move up to. I felt comfortable the first hour I took it out. However it is a pain to rig (about 45 minutes). Keep the boat on a trailer in the back yard and enjoy not paying for a marina space during the winter months, even though we sail in the winter (san Francisco bay area plus the delta and various lakes) I think that a C22 would be a logical next step for your next bigger boat. However.... Do you want to just cruise or race? Catalina has a really good club support that includes cruising and racing, but it will not be as fast as others, such as a Santana 22 or a Moore 24 with a fixed keel. Shop around and go for some rides/races before deciding.
Swing keel
There are many larger swing keels available. I have a swing keel version of the Beneteau 323; I am pretty sure there was a swing keel version of the 393 as well. The entire Southerly line is swing keels that are quite large. Even the Hinckley Bermuda 40 is a swing keel. Like everything else there are tradeoffs. I would rather not have the maintenance that goes with it, but I dock my boat where we have to cross a shallow bar. Our draft is under 3 feet with the keel up, 7 feet when its down. I actually can point quite well with the keel up, and that is often true. My prior boat was an O'Day 272LE, with a winged keel, which is the other shallow draft alternative.
There are many larger swing keels available. I have a swing keel version of the Beneteau 323; I am pretty sure there was a swing keel version of the 393 as well. The entire Southerly line is swing keels that are quite large. Even the Hinckley Bermuda 40 is a swing keel. Like everything else there are tradeoffs. I would rather not have the maintenance that goes with it, but I dock my boat where we have to cross a shallow bar. Our draft is under 3 feet with the keel up, 7 feet when its down. I actually can point quite well with the keel up, and that is often true. My prior boat was an O'Day 272LE, with a winged keel, which is the other shallow draft alternative.
Look at a Macgregor
I wanted to move up from a 16 ft Chrysler day sailer and was also looking at Cat 22' when I found out about the Macgregor 25. It has a 625 lb swing keel but weighs 300 lbs less than the Cat 22. A bigger boat with less weight to tow behind my car. Easy to launch with out hitch extension, draft less that 24 in keel up, 5 ft 5 in down. A lot more interior room, a good boat. Macgregor also made several 26 ft boats with swing and dagger boards and water ballast, the 26C and 26D. Later they developed the 26X as a power sailer with a swing keel, water ballast, 8 in draft with board up. 6 ft head room and top speed of over 20 mph under power. Last year I sold my Mac 25 and bought a Macgregor 25M, the newest version of the power sailer but now has a dagger board. Easy to launch, easy to tow, large interior, sails well, can be beached, or pull water skier. Some people don't like these powersailers saying they aren't real saiboats but that's just opinions from people who don't own one. There are larger trailer sailboats out there but this one is about as big as a person can easily manage.
I wanted to move up from a 16 ft Chrysler day sailer and was also looking at Cat 22' when I found out about the Macgregor 25. It has a 625 lb swing keel but weighs 300 lbs less than the Cat 22. A bigger boat with less weight to tow behind my car. Easy to launch with out hitch extension, draft less that 24 in keel up, 5 ft 5 in down. A lot more interior room, a good boat. Macgregor also made several 26 ft boats with swing and dagger boards and water ballast, the 26C and 26D. Later they developed the 26X as a power sailer with a swing keel, water ballast, 8 in draft with board up. 6 ft head room and top speed of over 20 mph under power. Last year I sold my Mac 25 and bought a Macgregor 25M, the newest version of the power sailer but now has a dagger board. Easy to launch, easy to tow, large interior, sails well, can be beached, or pull water skier. Some people don't like these powersailers saying they aren't real saiboats but that's just opinions from people who don't own one. There are larger trailer sailboats out there but this one is about as big as a person can easily manage.
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