Swing Keel anti-Barnacle Coating?

[newsailor130]

Should I coat my recessed swing keel trunk areas with 3M 5200 or similar to make it easier to clean the barnacles? I recently had to drop my swing keel because it had a barnacle problem, and ultimately, the uphaul cable broke. Anyway, the recessed area in the keel trunk area, it doesn't get bottom paint and the barnacles build up. I noticed while cleaning the barnacles, that where some 3M 5200 had inadvertently gotten onto the keel, the barnacles came off very easily with the pressure washer. (See photo.) So I am wondering, should I just coat this whole area with 5200 so i can just clean it out nicely each fall by sticking a pressure hose up there? And is there something like a liquid texture paint-on 5200 that might be better for this?

Jim

 

[rgranger]

Hmmmm

Sounds like a controlled experiment is in order

 

[SkookumZac]

Since you already have the keel out, you have great access to lay a couple good layers of bottom paint on the keel and keel trunk.
-Z

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

First some information. 3 M 5200 is a permanent adhesive which is not considered to deter barnacles. To put it on a clean surface will interfere with the movement of the swing keel. Secondly, anti fouling paint is designed to deter barnacles but it has to be fresh as the type of paint we do not know nor the history of the boat as the last hunter 22 was built in 1984 (excluding the different newer 22 which replaced the 216 and is a different boat. Your swing keel was made by Mars Metal and is cast iron. Further most anti fouling paints or anti fouling properties will no longer work if allowed to be out of the water greater than 60 days.

It sounds a repair was made using 5200 sealant excessively without allowing it to cure which takes 7 days unless it was a newer kind that drys faster with the keel being reinstalled with uncurred sealant. The keel was painted installed which is why the top of the keel being unpainted. It sounds also the anti fouling properties had dried out being out of the water for over 60 days.

Generally, the keel housing or area where the swing keel is in when in the up position is generally above the water line We don’t have a photo of that housing. Therefore it generally is never painted. As a former dealer I use to paint the upper 4 inches inside that housing to prevent barnacles from growing inside the housing

While the keel is out, I suggest removing the old paint to bare metal unless barrier coats are in place. Any voids, go to bare metal and paint first with a metal primer containing zinc chromate and fill voids with epoxy two part sanding smooth. Apply barrier coats. Apply anti fouling paint. There are a couple of softer anti fouling paints that will retain their anti fouling properties if out of the water for any length of time. Then repair cable and reattach swing keel.
One other thing I note a line on the upper top of keel of bottom paint in the housing unaffected. Not sure of that

 

[fstbttms]

...most anti fouling paints or anti fouling properties will no longer work if allowed to be out of the water greater than 60 days.

Not true. Ablative paints can withstand prolonged exposure to air. This is why they are the anti fouling paint of choice for trailerables and drysailed boats. Hard paints on the other hand are quickly made ineffective when exposed to air for more than a day or two. Not sure where the rather random "60 days" number comes from.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I went by mfg information plus I painted boats as a dealer for 30 plus years. I did mention a couple of paints which are softer can last exposed to air for the trailerables particularly the water ballast which I was involved.

 

[BrianW]

As Crazy Dave advised, the upper area of the centerboard trunk is unpainted. I found out the hard way while replacing my CB uphaul line. While I had the CB bracket removed, I thought it would be a good time to repaint my CB trunk with ablative bottom paint. In this process, I even painted the upper, previously unpainted area. Then, I painted 4 coats on the painted areas of the trunk. When I was ready to reinstall the CB bracket, it would no longer fit into the trunk because of the already tight clearance. It even jammed at the area previously painted. I had to sand off all of the paint in the areas where the CB bracket was mounted, and about half of the paint in the 3 to six inches below that.

So, from my experience, I would advise against putting anything that is more than the thickness of a couple of coats of bottom paint below the CB bracket. Also, 3M 5200 is the devil’s glue! It could possibly even pull gel coat off if it ever needs to be removed after application. Use only products designed to control barnacle growth!

 

[newsailor130]

Thanks all.

 

[SeaTR]

newsailor130,
I have the same boat. I very much agree with "BrianW"...stay away from the "devil's glue" (3M 5200), as he states, and only a couple of mils ablative coating is needed to typically protect your hull. (I sail in Long Island Sound...)

Also, is your swing keel really as Crazy Dave states ("...Your swing keel was made by Mars Metal and is cast iron.") ?
I have the same year as you do (H22, 1981). My swing keel (as bought and as replaced) is fiberglassed foam and only weighs in at about 80 lbs... Whiskey Tango??

Lastly,
Crazy Dave says.. "...a line on the upper top of keel of bottom paint in the housing unaffected. Not sure of that." Well that is your up-down haul cable connection / eye to trunk / housing pulleys.

Lastly lastly,
When you replace that cable / line, DO NOT SKIMP on the quality of cable you use. I.e., make sure the cable has many strands with a diameter as large as your pulleys can handle. The many strands part is to distribute the flexing of the cable over repeated operations, and the diameter part is to provide maximum 'robustness'. (I spent an entire season, from launch to haul out with my swing keel 'swung' all the way down due to cable failure...my resistance to hauling the boat back out for cable replacement when it failed at launch might have had something to do with it as well.) ;-]

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@SeaTR
I became a dealer as the old style swing keel 22 was phased out for the 23. On the water ballast boats I call that a swing centerboard as the ballast is in the water not in a swing keel which is for ballast. I am assuming the old style 22 was a swing (weighted ballast) keel but may be wrong as you are correct that it probably was an internal weighted boat . With age sometimes we forget but was not a dealer then.

Also the reference to the line on the upper portion of the keel in the paint, I was looking below it I could tell where that portion of the keel was in the water with it possibly kept up all the way in the trunk housing with the up haul cable while in a slip. Not good.
When in a slip keep the swing keel in the down position making sure the cable is relaxed as well as sailing. In addition when trailering, keep the keel lowered on the keel tray. Other than age, I saw the above as to two major reasons for cable failure.

 

[SeaTR]

Yup, that's right Crazy Dave, the ballast in my H22, 1981 swing "centerboard" (and maybe newsailor130's) is in the bilge on either side of the keel housing...it's ~ 1300 lbs of lead epoxied to the hull. Looks ugly, but effective, as there was one year, early on in my ownership of my salvage boat, that the keel had failed ~1/4 way down ....in the area of two PO's repair from pulling her off the bottom of the Thames River in New London, CT years ago. Of course, hind sight is nearly 20/20; I should have just replaced that swing keel (centerboard) upon buying her ... Well, "pay me now or pay me later" came to fruition. :-]

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Navy?

 

[SeaTR]

Yes, 6 yrs, Submarines...how'd you guess? :-}

 

[newsailor130]

Thanks, guys. The keel is foam, about 80 pounds, I can carry it. "the line" I think Dave is referring to, is the area where the 5200 was accidentally smeared last time I did the cable, that is why I was wondering why not 5200 the whole surface. (There's actually two lines, one about parallel to the pivot hole, one parallel to the bottom of the cable attachment. But yeah, fine, I will use ablative paint now that someone mentioned shoving a rag up there with a ruler or whatever, yes, it can work. The problem is my yard is not doing that for me... I am a little pissed. (SeaTR let's go PM on that, you probably know them.) So I guess, need to do that myself every spring. Also, if there's different grades of cable, please clue me in on specs, and where to buy, Lighthouse Marine in Aquabogue? West Marine, Riverhead? Also, yes, I always keep my keel up in the slip. No one ever told me to store it in the down position. Sorry. Now I know....
SeaTR you mention the epoxied lead. BTW the Epoxy on top of the lead is all cracking and falling out. I have always just ignored that as meaningless, the lead is heavy and isn't going to come up, is it? should I put some new epoxy in there? It certainly would be more cosmetic... Also, BTW, the foam "blistered" a bit up near the cable attachment point. Not shown in photo, but I can send it to you. I don't get that at all. The stuff should be entirely inert. I was going to sand that down and reglass... thoughts?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Bio shows GROTON. WONDER THAT.

I met Rickover once and spoke to him. When asked why the unusual questions when interviewing new officers, his response was he wanted his officers to authenticate (3 times) for when the birds are flying the world as we know it will forever change. If

 

[SeaTR]

newsailor130, I think much of what you need to read / understand is in one of my threads, see:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/need-rudder-and-swing-keel-dimensions.104754/

BTW... you mention "Riverhead West Marine" for the cable...If you live in Pelham Manor, NY, Riverhead is on the east end of Long Island (north fork), and quite a haul for you, living at the other end of the island ...and then across the water...if I'm understanding you correctly!!

ANY West Marine would have the cable, or for that matter nearly any good hardware store. I just happen to live near a West Marine in Mystic, CT, but do most of my marine shopping at Defender in Waterford, CT (https://www.defender.com/warehouseoutletstore.jsp), which is just as near to me and typically beats West Marine for pricing, ... but not selection. Defender has a spring discount sale every year, usually the end of March with great deals. Their warehouse is PACKED for 4 days with customers that come from all over the country. It's a lot of fun to view the mayhem... ;-)
The cable I used is 7x19, type 316stainless steel:
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|2078767|2079497&id=4458840
The 'type' refers to the grade of stainless steel. There are a number of grades of SS, with each having its advantages and disadvantages.
Hopefully, it helps a little !!

 

[newsailor130]

Noted. I spend time in Riverhead area. Actually my boat is in peconic

 

[SeaTR]

Crazy Dave, some officers were never asked a question...they just came into his office while he sat there doing 'something', then he would abruptly dismiss them. They still became Naval Nuclear Power officers, but everyone had to go through the 'Hymie interview'.

My learning from this experience ... Deep down we are all a little strange. :-}

 

[SeaTR]

Crazy Dave,
BTW, not all of us were assigned to boomers (ballistic subs), carrying the (nuclear) "birds" that you reference above. The other half of the fleet was "fast attacks" with no nuke weapons...just torpedoes.