Swageless lifeline fittings
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Mechanical Swage
The mechanical swage, the type you kinda screw together, are as strong or stronger than those with a swaging machine. They are commonly used on forestays, backstays and bob stays. I think your lifelines are no challenge for them. Disadvantage....price. Check out the price on a small portable swaging device, i havent lately, they may be cheaper to buy and swage yourself, rather than the mechanical swages, which are deffinately not cheap.
The mechanical swage, the type you kinda screw together, are as strong or stronger than those with a swaging machine. They are commonly used on forestays, backstays and bob stays. I think your lifelines are no challenge for them. Disadvantage....price. Check out the price on a small portable swaging device, i havent lately, they may be cheaper to buy and swage yourself, rather than the mechanical swages, which are deffinately not cheap.
Seems LIke..................
Seems like you will probably have to buy the wire and pelican hooks and either pay someone to swage them for you or buy a cheap swaging tool , which is deffinately sufficient to do the job. I just was looking through the CS Johnson Catalog and was blown away by the prices of the pelican hooks. I have never added pelican hooks to lifelines but i have swaged before. The inexpensive swageing tool is good for about 2,000 lbs. The swageless/mechanical terminals (now here it comes again, LOL) are very expensive. I think that 4 swageless/ mechanical terminals will probably warrant the expense of a portable swageing device. I have used them before and they work great. Its like any other tool., if you dont have one you dont need it, but once you own it you tend to use it a whole lot. Tony B
Seems like you will probably have to buy the wire and pelican hooks and either pay someone to swage them for you or buy a cheap swaging tool , which is deffinately sufficient to do the job. I just was looking through the CS Johnson Catalog and was blown away by the prices of the pelican hooks. I have never added pelican hooks to lifelines but i have swaged before. The inexpensive swageing tool is good for about 2,000 lbs. The swageless/mechanical terminals (now here it comes again, LOL) are very expensive. I think that 4 swageless/ mechanical terminals will probably warrant the expense of a portable swageing device. I have used them before and they work great. Its like any other tool., if you dont have one you dont need it, but once you own it you tend to use it a whole lot. Tony B
How About Splicing?
An alternative would be to splice an eye in the cable. Go to library and get a book out on making knots or marlinspike seamanship, they will also usually show a simple splice with wire rope (cable). The eye splice that requires a fid....FORGET IT, takes forever and will eat up your fingers. There is another eye splice that all you do is open the wire up and divide the strandes in half, cut out the center core(untwisted stiff straight strand) and reweave the 2 halves together. Its VERY simple. When you see it in the book, you will know which one im talking about. Should take literally under 5 mins.
An alternative would be to splice an eye in the cable. Go to library and get a book out on making knots or marlinspike seamanship, they will also usually show a simple splice with wire rope (cable). The eye splice that requires a fid....FORGET IT, takes forever and will eat up your fingers. There is another eye splice that all you do is open the wire up and divide the strandes in half, cut out the center core(untwisted stiff straight strand) and reweave the 2 halves together. Its VERY simple. When you see it in the book, you will know which one im talking about. Should take literally under 5 mins.
Sailortonyb
Where is the swaging device available cheap or inexpensive? Our local WM used to have one available for self service but no longer. I can not beleive what they think that thing is worth. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&classNum=1&subdeptNum=&storeNum=&productId=2779
Where is the swaging device available cheap or inexpensive? Our local WM used to have one available for self service but no longer. I can not beleive what they think that thing is worth. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&classNum=1&subdeptNum=&storeNum=&productId=2779
Whats so bad about that
And no Im not trying to create controversy just idle chat time , I bought one at WM for 30% off , and havent used it yet But I will this spring , I just want to do my own work at my own pace and not be paying a rigger by the hour so it works for me , and among my marina I would share it with whomever , its a tool that virtually can never be worn out . IMHO
And no Im not trying to create controversy just idle chat time , I bought one at WM for 30% off , and havent used it yet But I will this spring , I just want to do my own work at my own pace and not be paying a rigger by the hour so it works for me , and among my marina I would share it with whomever , its a tool that virtually can never be worn out . IMHO
Alan A ?
Alan since I have no experience with Technora and Im preparing to redo my safety lines with gates this spring , How are the ends terminated in lieu of forks and turnbuckles and pelican hooks . And another thread I read sometime back an issue stated was chafe passing thru stanchions and where sheets may ride on the safety lines .
Alan since I have no experience with Technora and Im preparing to redo my safety lines with gates this spring , How are the ends terminated in lieu of forks and turnbuckles and pelican hooks . And another thread I read sometime back an issue stated was chafe passing thru stanchions and where sheets may ride on the safety lines .
Cost is much higher for swageless.
I do not know what type of prices you have been quoted, but the swageless fitting a many more times expensive than a swaged fitting. I received a quote of about $350 to do my Hunter 31 with Johnson over center pelican hook and all new wire (no vinyl coating). There was something about the spectra route was okay, but it is not approved for racing and the product only lasts for a few years. It is good for someone that has a lot of money to replace the stuff every few years.
I do not know what type of prices you have been quoted, but the swageless fitting a many more times expensive than a swaged fitting. I received a quote of about $350 to do my Hunter 31 with Johnson over center pelican hook and all new wire (no vinyl coating). There was something about the spectra route was okay, but it is not approved for racing and the product only lasts for a few years. It is good for someone that has a lot of money to replace the stuff every few years.
That was my point
Re doing the existing , all one has to purchase are studs and wire , I feel sure I can take at least $150 off a $350 job hand swaging as CS Johnson calls it , of course with the exception of adding gates and an additional pair of gate stanchions which is a 1 time addition .
Re doing the existing , all one has to purchase are studs and wire , I feel sure I can take at least $150 off a $350 job hand swaging as CS Johnson calls it , of course with the exception of adding gates and an additional pair of gate stanchions which is a 1 time addition .
We were told that the swaging device.....
Tim: We were told by the CS Johnson folks that the swaging tool did NOT create enough pressure to safely create life lines. I really doubt that you can save that much money. We priced it out and the $350 price was less expensive than the cost of the materials. You may want to contact Ballenger (Watsonville, CA) & Seco South for some quotes. The price for the hooks is about $35 each (that is about $140 alone) then you have all the other fittings and the cable.
Tim: We were told by the CS Johnson folks that the swaging tool did NOT create enough pressure to safely create life lines. I really doubt that you can save that much money. We priced it out and the $350 price was less expensive than the cost of the materials. You may want to contact Ballenger (Watsonville, CA) & Seco South for some quotes. The price for the hooks is about $35 each (that is about $140 alone) then you have all the other fittings and the cable.
We were told that the swaging device.....
Tim: We were told by the CS Johnson folks that the swaging tool did NOT create enough pressure to safely create life lines. I really doubt that you can save that much money. We priced it out and the $350 price was less expensive than the cost of the materials. You may want to contact Ballenger (Watsonville, CA) & Seco South for some quotes. The price for the hooks is about $35 each (that is about $140 alone) then you have all the other fittings and the cable.
Tim: We were told by the CS Johnson folks that the swaging tool did NOT create enough pressure to safely create life lines. I really doubt that you can save that much money. We priced it out and the $350 price was less expensive than the cost of the materials. You may want to contact Ballenger (Watsonville, CA) & Seco South for some quotes. The price for the hooks is about $35 each (that is about $140 alone) then you have all the other fittings and the cable.
Swage or NicoPress?
Lifelines are no place to get sloppy with your equipment or with your English. Just to be sure we're all talking about the same thing... Swages involve LOTS of pressure, often with a hydraulic press, to crimp an entire end terminal fitting (usually stainless) onto a wire so it WON'T come off. Mechanical (set-screw) fittings are not generally sufficiently secure for Lifelines. What if it slips? Oops, and your son falls in some dark night? "Sorry, Honey, he fell off and I couldn't find him..." No thanks. Norseman fittings (apparently refered to below, but not by name) are a different mechanically fastened end terminal that does seem to offer sufficient security, but which might be pricey to use as part of your lifeline setup since you'd need a bunch of them. They're most often used to cut costs by people using galvanized wire standing rigging. (The galvanized wire needs replacing frequently, but is cheap to replace, and the Norseman fittings can be re-used.) West Marine often has a crimping tool available in their stores for Nicopress sleeves - the little lead collars that you can slip over a wire loop to make an eye. These are not secure enough, IMO, to use for lifelines. The wire CAN slip, and it most likely will, just when you need it most not to. Spectra or other synthetic lines fail the chafe test, let alone their potential for unseen UV degradation. Now that we're all talking about the same thing... We replaced the upper and lower lifelines on our 36' boat with well-swaged end fittings from a reputable rigger in our area for less than eight hundred dollars, including port, starboard and stern gates. It's cheap insurance . This is another opportunity to do the right thing.
Lifelines are no place to get sloppy with your equipment or with your English. Just to be sure we're all talking about the same thing... Swages involve LOTS of pressure, often with a hydraulic press, to crimp an entire end terminal fitting (usually stainless) onto a wire so it WON'T come off. Mechanical (set-screw) fittings are not generally sufficiently secure for Lifelines. What if it slips? Oops, and your son falls in some dark night? "Sorry, Honey, he fell off and I couldn't find him..." No thanks. Norseman fittings (apparently refered to below, but not by name) are a different mechanically fastened end terminal that does seem to offer sufficient security, but which might be pricey to use as part of your lifeline setup since you'd need a bunch of them. They're most often used to cut costs by people using galvanized wire standing rigging. (The galvanized wire needs replacing frequently, but is cheap to replace, and the Norseman fittings can be re-used.) West Marine often has a crimping tool available in their stores for Nicopress sleeves - the little lead collars that you can slip over a wire loop to make an eye. These are not secure enough, IMO, to use for lifelines. The wire CAN slip, and it most likely will, just when you need it most not to. Spectra or other synthetic lines fail the chafe test, let alone their potential for unseen UV degradation. Now that we're all talking about the same thing... We replaced the upper and lower lifelines on our 36' boat with well-swaged end fittings from a reputable rigger in our area for less than eight hundred dollars, including port, starboard and stern gates. It's cheap insurance . This is another opportunity to do the right thing.
Swage or NicoPress?
Lifelines are no place to get sloppy with your equipment or with your English. Just to be sure we're all talking about the same thing... Swages involve LOTS of pressure, often with a hydraulic press, to crimp an entire end terminal fitting (usually stainless) onto a wire so it WON'T come off. Mechanical (set-screw) fittings are not generally sufficiently secure for Lifelines. What if it slips? Oops, and your son falls in some dark night? "Sorry, Honey, he fell off and I couldn't find him..." No thanks. Norseman fittings (apparently refered to below, but not by name) are a different mechanically fastened end terminal that does seem to offer sufficient security, but which might be pricey to use as part of your lifeline setup since you'd need a bunch of them. They're most often used to cut costs by people using galvanized wire standing rigging. (The galvanized wire needs replacing frequently, but is cheap to replace, and the Norseman fittings can be re-used.) West Marine often has a crimping tool available in their stores for Nicopress sleeves - the little lead collars that you can slip over a wire loop to make an eye. These are not secure enough, IMO, to use for lifelines. The wire CAN slip, and it most likely will, just when you need it most not to. Spectra or other synthetic lines fail the chafe test, let alone their potential for unseen UV degradation. Now that we're all talking about the same thing... We replaced the upper and lower lifelines on our 36' boat with well-swaged end fittings from a reputable rigger in our area for less than eight hundred dollars, including port, starboard and stern gates. It's cheap insurance . This is another opportunity to do the right thing.
Lifelines are no place to get sloppy with your equipment or with your English. Just to be sure we're all talking about the same thing... Swages involve LOTS of pressure, often with a hydraulic press, to crimp an entire end terminal fitting (usually stainless) onto a wire so it WON'T come off. Mechanical (set-screw) fittings are not generally sufficiently secure for Lifelines. What if it slips? Oops, and your son falls in some dark night? "Sorry, Honey, he fell off and I couldn't find him..." No thanks. Norseman fittings (apparently refered to below, but not by name) are a different mechanically fastened end terminal that does seem to offer sufficient security, but which might be pricey to use as part of your lifeline setup since you'd need a bunch of them. They're most often used to cut costs by people using galvanized wire standing rigging. (The galvanized wire needs replacing frequently, but is cheap to replace, and the Norseman fittings can be re-used.) West Marine often has a crimping tool available in their stores for Nicopress sleeves - the little lead collars that you can slip over a wire loop to make an eye. These are not secure enough, IMO, to use for lifelines. The wire CAN slip, and it most likely will, just when you need it most not to. Spectra or other synthetic lines fail the chafe test, let alone their potential for unseen UV degradation. Now that we're all talking about the same thing... We replaced the upper and lower lifelines on our 36' boat with well-swaged end fittings from a reputable rigger in our area for less than eight hundred dollars, including port, starboard and stern gates. It's cheap insurance . This is another opportunity to do the right thing.
Does this mean
The tool CS Johnson sells # 53 210 is not functional ? if so I have a return to make and their catalog is seriously deceptive , or am I misreading ? Top paragraph on pg 12 , and pg 16 at www.csjohnson.com . My only question now that I reread is has anyone used 7x7 bare stainless wire/cable for life lines , many here are using bare 1x19 . Copyright © 2005 C. Sherman Johnson CO. Inc. All Rights Reserved Send Questions or Comments to: info@csjohnson.com Online Privacy Statement
The tool CS Johnson sells # 53 210 is not functional ? if so I have a return to make and their catalog is seriously deceptive , or am I misreading ? Top paragraph on pg 12 , and pg 16 at www.csjohnson.com . My only question now that I reread is has anyone used 7x7 bare stainless wire/cable for life lines , many here are using bare 1x19 . Copyright © 2005 C. Sherman Johnson CO. Inc. All Rights Reserved Send Questions or Comments to: info@csjohnson.com Online Privacy Statement
Does this mean
The tool CS Johnson sells # 53 210 is not functional ? if so I have a return to make and their catalog is seriously deceptive , or am I misreading ? Top paragraph on pg 12 , and pg 16 at www.csjohnson.com . My only question now that I reread is has anyone used 7x7 bare stainless wire/cable for life lines , many here are using bare 1x19 . Copyright © 2005 C. Sherman Johnson CO. Inc. All Rights Reserved Send Questions or Comments to: info@csjohnson.com Online Privacy Statement
The tool CS Johnson sells # 53 210 is not functional ? if so I have a return to make and their catalog is seriously deceptive , or am I misreading ? Top paragraph on pg 12 , and pg 16 at www.csjohnson.com . My only question now that I reread is has anyone used 7x7 bare stainless wire/cable for life lines , many here are using bare 1x19 . Copyright © 2005 C. Sherman Johnson CO. Inc. All Rights Reserved Send Questions or Comments to: info@csjohnson.com Online Privacy Statement
Spectra lifelines
Steve's right-some people like spectgra for lifelines because it's strong, corrosion free, and softer on the crew-but, it's hard to work with, has to be protected from UV, and is expensive. Steve's also correct, only uncoated SS wire is approved for racing under ORC rules, local race committees not using ORC may or may not allow it
Steve's right-some people like spectgra for lifelines because it's strong, corrosion free, and softer on the crew-but, it's hard to work with, has to be protected from UV, and is expensive. Steve's also correct, only uncoated SS wire is approved for racing under ORC rules, local race committees not using ORC may or may not allow it
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