Just back from a crossover journey to the U.K and back to Holland I had to reconsider the seaworthyness of my Hunter 27. Still eager to try crossing the Atlantic we (me and Sandra my wife)have experienced a major storm within 25 miles before the coast of Holland. Our crossing started off in bright and sunny weather without any galewarnings whatsoever and due to the lack of wind we even had to use the engine (Yanmar sb8) for the first 12 hours. We were facing a crossing of about 145 NM and normally takes about 25 to 30 hours.In the middle of the Deep Water route which is the main trafficlane for big commercial vessels and can be seen as a very busy highway going from south to north and vice versa in the middle of the North Sea, the engine suddenly stops. A giant fishingnet was caught in the propellor, shaft and rudder.This was at night. With the little wind we had we set sails and made effort to get away as quickly as possible. But with a speed of only 0.5 knot this was dangerously slow. We kept calling surrounding ships by VHF telling our position and the nature of our distress. Most vessels replied accourdingly by changing there coarses but still came very close by. Later on a little extra wind came up and we made an average speed of 2.5 knots caused by this fishingnet wich was impossible to remove unless for what we could cut off from above the water. The rudder showed little response and while the windforce was increased by 6 Beaufort she showed less and less response. We were sure about the fact that we had to reach Holland and its harbours without the help of the engine and we changed anger and some fear for eagerness to get there by only sailing. Usually this shouldn't be a problem accept the fact that we knew that with an average speed of 2.5 knots and another 60 miles to go this would take endlessly in time. Suddenly we were surounded by a huge thundercloud getting bigger and bigger. None of the forecasts told us about this possability but we were caught in the middle of it. I knew that this would cause stormy weather and we made immidiate arrangemants to prepare the boat and ourselves for the inevitible things that had to come. Within 5 minutes we had gusts of 10 Beaufort and in 45 minutes waves of 30 feet and somtimes more. Our stormjib was ripped into pieces and we had to go on with only the mainsail wich was triple reefed. She was very hard to steer due to the fishingnet. We also had to tack and this was impossible without the jib. Instead we had to make 4 stormroundings to get her to tack. This storm wich I never ran into on this scale at sea took 4 hours until it decided to calm down a bit. We decided to keep coarse diagonal toward the waves because it was dark again and we only could get a good guess of the direction of the waves by "feeling" the wind. Letting us go with the direction of the wind seemed like a very dangerous option. Several times breakers came over the bow flooding the boat with thousands of gallons of water. Strangely enough this never reached me and left me behind the sprayhood in a completely dry outfit! After 50 hours at sea we finally were in reach of the safe harbour. Only 1 mile to go! And the the wind suddenly disapeared just as soon as it came on. This was a real disaster because we still had the high waves with no wind and a strong currant taking us away from the harbour. This was for us the time to call the Coastguard and within 20 minutes we were towed in. In the Marina they even went into the water with drysuits to release us from the fishingnet. Great guys! So after having all the facts reconsidered I have to come to the conclusion that a Hunter 27 seems safe enough to go almost anywhere (except for the Southern Pole Sea perhaps) and this was the ultimate test to proof it. Still there is enough to do by improving her here and there. But she never gave me the impression that she would leave us alone in our time of need. Regards Oliver
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amazing...
You should be writing this stuff up for a magazine, not just for us. It seems like you know what you are doing, since you actually own a storm jib and have a third reef point in your main. However, I think you are taking chances with your life. Maybe that's OK with you, I don't know. What was the maximum wave heights that you saw? Were you ever afraid of being knocked down? Do you think that the sea state (wave height) in the area where you sailed is similar to the North Atlantic where you intend to sail? Do you have a life raft, survival suits and an EPIRB on board? Did anything besides the storm jib break? Why couldn't you dive on the net (while you were still becalmed)? You might have been able to cut it away, even in the dark. Personally, I wouldn't take a Hunter 27 outside of Long Island Sound. You are brave and lucky.
You should be writing this stuff up for a magazine, not just for us. It seems like you know what you are doing, since you actually own a storm jib and have a third reef point in your main. However, I think you are taking chances with your life. Maybe that's OK with you, I don't know. What was the maximum wave heights that you saw? Were you ever afraid of being knocked down? Do you think that the sea state (wave height) in the area where you sailed is similar to the North Atlantic where you intend to sail? Do you have a life raft, survival suits and an EPIRB on board? Did anything besides the storm jib break? Why couldn't you dive on the net (while you were still becalmed)? You might have been able to cut it away, even in the dark. Personally, I wouldn't take a Hunter 27 outside of Long Island Sound. You are brave and lucky.
Great tale.
Brave yes, lucky no. I do not see where luck is involved. You have a solid boat, the experience of the North Sea, and good preparation. Luck would be NOT encountering the fishing net and the storm. I agree with Paul about the final preparations for a crossing. For me that would be an SSB radio, EPIRB, two VHFs, two GPS's, liferaft, lots of diesel fuel, and lots of food and water. And a much bigger boat! But I am not brave.
Keep us posted.
Brave yes, lucky no. I do not see where luck is involved. You have a solid boat, the experience of the North Sea, and good preparation. Luck would be NOT encountering the fishing net and the storm. I agree with Paul about the final preparations for a crossing. For me that would be an SSB radio, EPIRB, two VHFs, two GPS's, liferaft, lots of diesel fuel, and lots of food and water. And a much bigger boat! But I am not brave.
Keep us posted.Size Matters?
Wow! What a grat strory! I have often thought about a bigger boat in this type of situation. However, there is strength of materials for fiberglass hulls. I think the larger they get, there is a point that they surpass a curve of strength to length. Although I don't see myself doing it, I think that a 30 or so foot boat would be around the maximum length to strength of the material for fiberglass. Sort of being out there in a protected capsule should you encounter the worst. Since this is my unscientific analysis, I would like to hear some real data and, of course, some more arm chair hypothesis. Mike D
Wow! What a grat strory! I have often thought about a bigger boat in this type of situation. However, there is strength of materials for fiberglass hulls. I think the larger they get, there is a point that they surpass a curve of strength to length. Although I don't see myself doing it, I think that a 30 or so foot boat would be around the maximum length to strength of the material for fiberglass. Sort of being out there in a protected capsule should you encounter the worst. Since this is my unscientific analysis, I would like to hear some real data and, of course, some more arm chair hypothesis. Mike D
Great Job
Congratulations on a great job well done. You sound like a real seaman and your wife must be a fine firstmate. I agree with Ed, there was no luck involved. As for people like Paul, that's why they build cruise ships. We all look forward to seeing you on our shores. You have a great boat so why not use her. Before you make the crossing, get some instructions in the use of a sextant. You never know when the old GPS may give up on you. Besides, sextants are fun to use. See you when you get here. Ron/KA5HZV
Congratulations on a great job well done. You sound like a real seaman and your wife must be a fine firstmate. I agree with Ed, there was no luck involved. As for people like Paul, that's why they build cruise ships. We all look forward to seeing you on our shores. You have a great boat so why not use her. Before you make the crossing, get some instructions in the use of a sextant. You never know when the old GPS may give up on you. Besides, sextants are fun to use. See you when you get here. Ron/KA5HZV
For Mike(and Olivier and Ron).
Mike, you make an interesting point. Since my Hunter(and Ron's) is 37 feet I would like to take issue! But I can't because I don't know enough. The "Related Link" will give you or anyone interested some things to read on this score.
Mike, you make an interesting point. Since my Hunter(and Ron's) is 37 feet I would like to take issue! But I can't because I don't know enough.
The "Related Link" will give you or anyone interested some things to read on this score...and for rash risk-takers...
... that's why they build helicopters, and somehow find people brave enough to go out in them and rescue people who wander out on the ocean in little coastal cruisers. People have crossed the Atlantic in canoes, just because they were lucky. When people aren't lucky, the first thing they do is grab the radio and ask someone else to risk their lives saving them. In New Zealand, it would be illegal to leave the harbor in a Hunter 27 equipped as described. They're tired of rescuing foolish people down there.
... that's why they build helicopters, and somehow find people brave enough to go out in them and rescue people who wander out on the ocean in little coastal cruisers. People have crossed the Atlantic in canoes, just because they were lucky. When people aren't lucky, the first thing they do is grab the radio and ask someone else to risk their lives saving them. In New Zealand, it would be illegal to leave the harbor in a Hunter 27 equipped as described. They're tired of rescuing foolish people down there.
Risktaking
Thanks for your comment. It strikes me as strange that you think that you might be safer on a bigger boat. History proofs that people grab the VHF for lesser reasons than a storm like sickness, dismasting, enginefailure and collisions with vessels and floating objects. Even orca's and whales have sunk many ships. I asure you that 9 out of 10 socalled seaworthy ships well over 30 feet have been in all kinds of distress wich caused the coastguard to interact and put there lifes on the line. They know excactly the feeling about a little thrillseeking themselves. I agree with you that for a journey cross the Atlantic one would have to equip his boat with all the help he can get to keep his ship upright. That also means almost all the equipment he can get for communication purposes. And a good knowledge about meteology to interpretate weathercharts etcet. I will never say that sailing in smaller or bigger boats is without risks. But what is in life? New Zealand is a little out of my leage anyway. Regards Oliver
Thanks for your comment. It strikes me as strange that you think that you might be safer on a bigger boat. History proofs that people grab the VHF for lesser reasons than a storm like sickness, dismasting, enginefailure and collisions with vessels and floating objects. Even orca's and whales have sunk many ships. I asure you that 9 out of 10 socalled seaworthy ships well over 30 feet have been in all kinds of distress wich caused the coastguard to interact and put there lifes on the line. They know excactly the feeling about a little thrillseeking themselves. I agree with you that for a journey cross the Atlantic one would have to equip his boat with all the help he can get to keep his ship upright. That also means almost all the equipment he can get for communication purposes. And a good knowledge about meteology to interpretate weathercharts etcet. I will never say that sailing in smaller or bigger boats is without risks. But what is in life? New Zealand is a little out of my leage anyway. Regards Oliver
Paul, what factor creates. . . .
this attitude for you? You have not stated why you think the Hunter 27 should stay close to home. Is it just the length? Do you have experience with the Cherubini Hunters? Length is not the issue in bad seas, capsize ratio is. And the H27 is quite good in that regard. Obviously Olivier is equipped for the task. Both his boat and he personally. Have you ever sailed in the North Sea? That experience alone speaks volumes.
this attitude for you? You have not stated why you think the Hunter 27 should stay close to home. Is it just the length? Do you have experience with the Cherubini Hunters? Length is not the issue in bad seas, capsize ratio is. And the H27 is quite good in that regard. Obviously Olivier is equipped for the task. Both his boat and he personally. Have you ever sailed in the North Sea? That experience alone speaks volumes.
For the record ...
How's this for planning? I want to make the Falmouth, MA to Falmouth, UK trip when I retire (which is planned at 49). This gives me 14 years to read posts like this one, prepare the best I can, crew aboard other boats in off-shore adventures, ready our Hunter 30, talk my wife into it, go on eBay and buy two of everything I need ... and then make the jump in 2016. This has been (as nearly every sailor might claim) a dream of mine forever. I went to the UK last year to suss out the scenery (so I know what to look for when I get close to shore). And I went to Falmouth, MA to check out the starting point. Looks easy enough. Anyway, I think it good to dream and plan and plan to make your dreams a reality. Olivier, when you make it to the US I'll grab your dock lines. Eric
How's this for planning? I want to make the Falmouth, MA to Falmouth, UK trip when I retire (which is planned at 49). This gives me 14 years to read posts like this one, prepare the best I can, crew aboard other boats in off-shore adventures, ready our Hunter 30, talk my wife into it, go on eBay and buy two of everything I need ... and then make the jump in 2016. This has been (as nearly every sailor might claim) a dream of mine forever. I went to the UK last year to suss out the scenery (so I know what to look for when I get close to shore). And I went to Falmouth, MA to check out the starting point. Looks easy enough. Anyway, I think it good to dream and plan and plan to make your dreams a reality. Olivier, when you make it to the US I'll grab your dock lines. Eric
Olivier on Risk-taking...
Very well put. Life is a risk. Personally I'd rather be in a boat than one of those resue helicopters.... Ron/KA5HZV
Very well put. Life is a risk. Personally I'd rather be in a boat than one of those resue helicopters.... Ron/KA5HZV
Wow, Olivier, what can one say?
Olivier, A great story and an admirable performance! You are clearly an accomplished sailor who carries most of the basic tools necessary to make this type of crossing and who knows how to keep his cool when the chips are down. My prediction is that you will end up doing your Atlantic crossing since you appear to have your Dutch "kaaskop" already set to it. However, taking a 27 foot light cruising vessel of uncertain age, condition and state of preparation across the Atlantic is a pretty big gamble. Just try to buy insurance for that trip at LLoyds and you will find out that even insurers who love to gamble a bit (in return for a fat premium) will avoid you like the plague. I believe you wrote that you were just reading John Rousmaniere's Fastnet Force 10 book when things started to go wrong in a hurry. Just finish it one of these days and study the little table in the back that illustrates the strong posituive correlation between boat size and storm survival probability. Nonetheless, I agree that it can be done safely. Even in a 27-foot Hunter. It just takes a heck of a lot of preparation. When you are finished with Fastnet Force 10 you may want to read "My old man and the sea" as well as the Korenman's great manual for WestMarine Cup participants. Also, Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base" is highly recommended as you may not always be lucky enough to snag a big fishing net at the right time..... Please keep us posted. Henk Meuzelaar "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull #1)
Olivier, A great story and an admirable performance! You are clearly an accomplished sailor who carries most of the basic tools necessary to make this type of crossing and who knows how to keep his cool when the chips are down. My prediction is that you will end up doing your Atlantic crossing since you appear to have your Dutch "kaaskop" already set to it. However, taking a 27 foot light cruising vessel of uncertain age, condition and state of preparation across the Atlantic is a pretty big gamble. Just try to buy insurance for that trip at LLoyds and you will find out that even insurers who love to gamble a bit (in return for a fat premium) will avoid you like the plague. I believe you wrote that you were just reading John Rousmaniere's Fastnet Force 10 book when things started to go wrong in a hurry. Just finish it one of these days and study the little table in the back that illustrates the strong posituive correlation between boat size and storm survival probability. Nonetheless, I agree that it can be done safely. Even in a 27-foot Hunter. It just takes a heck of a lot of preparation. When you are finished with Fastnet Force 10 you may want to read "My old man and the sea" as well as the Korenman's great manual for WestMarine Cup participants. Also, Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base" is highly recommended as you may not always be lucky enough to snag a big fishing net at the right time..... Please keep us posted. Henk Meuzelaar "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull #1)
All pretty good replies however
As I have posted before it is not the size that counts but how you use it. (applies to men as well, ask any woman with a smile on her dial) We had a Russian guy leave Darwin recently on one of his many circumnavigations. Size of his yacht? 25'. (Think it may have been an Albin Vega) Well built though I must admit.
As I have posted before it is not the size that counts but how you use it. (applies to men as well, ask any woman with a smile on her dial) We had a Russian guy leave Darwin recently on one of his many circumnavigations. Size of his yacht? 25'. (Think it may have been an Albin Vega) Well built though I must admit.
Robert Manry ...
Crossed from Falmouth to Falmouth in a 19-foot sailboat. Read Tinkerbelle sometime if you want to be truly inspired to "go for it."
Crossed from Falmouth to Falmouth in a 19-foot sailboat. Read Tinkerbelle sometime if you want to be truly inspired to "go for it."
Passagemaking in a 6 ft, 200lb vessel....
and, yes Mark, pretty thin-skinned indeed (~ 2-4 mm). This frail vessel (also known as the hapless bugger, poor sod or ignorant slob)is alas ill-suited to cross open water in anything but flat conditions, unless isolated from the wild motions of the waves by a 30+ ft, 10+ ton inertial platform (also known as a cruising yacht). Tough talk about crossing oceans in small vessels is easy. Doing it is something else altogether. To understand that you only have to talk to those who actually did it or just tried it. Our neighbor in Hilo (Hawaii), the twenty-something skipper of the 23-ft sailing vessel "Blow Me", who had just made a successful downwind passage from the US West Coast, told us how he had been unable to sleep anywhere but on the floor in the center of the cabin wedged between the mast and the companion way in order to try and escape the endless yawing motion. The weather had been great; not even one full gale. Yet, he was now trying to sell his little yacht; his plans for a circumnavigation in his lovingly outfitted vessel shelved indefinitely...... BTW, "Blow Me" looked like she could have made the circumnavigation just fine. That is rarely ever the issue of concern with small vessels. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
and, yes Mark, pretty thin-skinned indeed (~ 2-4 mm). This frail vessel (also known as the hapless bugger, poor sod or ignorant slob)is alas ill-suited to cross open water in anything but flat conditions, unless isolated from the wild motions of the waves by a 30+ ft, 10+ ton inertial platform (also known as a cruising yacht). Tough talk about crossing oceans in small vessels is easy. Doing it is something else altogether. To understand that you only have to talk to those who actually did it or just tried it. Our neighbor in Hilo (Hawaii), the twenty-something skipper of the 23-ft sailing vessel "Blow Me", who had just made a successful downwind passage from the US West Coast, told us how he had been unable to sleep anywhere but on the floor in the center of the cabin wedged between the mast and the companion way in order to try and escape the endless yawing motion. The weather had been great; not even one full gale. Yet, he was now trying to sell his little yacht; his plans for a circumnavigation in his lovingly outfitted vessel shelved indefinitely...... BTW, "Blow Me" looked like she could have made the circumnavigation just fine. That is rarely ever the issue of concern with small vessels. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
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