Surge protectors
- Thread starter FourPoints
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does not have to do with recreational vessels--is all about ships. the electrical system on some ships causes these to flame out...has to do with some fault in the ground system intrinsic in these ships.
not sailboats. ships. not your boat. ships. not even cruise ships, either.
not sailboats. ships. not your boat. ships. not even cruise ships, either.
There's a long thread about this on Cruisers Forum.Apparently, the 'surge protector' in a power bar fried and caused a fire. But it's unclear what they consider a 'surge protector', or the make/model of power bar that fried.
To me, the greater danger is from cheap plastic power-bars when they're used to feed high-current loads. I've had a couple start to melt when the connection was iffy.
To me, the greater danger is from cheap plastic power-bars when they're used to feed high-current loads. I've had a couple start to melt when the connection was iffy.
BINGO!!!! A few years ago there was a good article in GOB magazine about a guy who burned his J-Boat using a power strip.
I broke one in my shop a couple of years ago that was rated at 15A. When I was tossing it in the trash I looked inside and decided I would never again use one. I honestly have no clue how it even had a "UL" sticker on it. It was rated at 15A, had six outlets, and the entire thing was wired with 16GA wire....
The USCG article, electrically, makes little sense. I suspect these were cheap power strips powering high amp loads like 1500W space heaters...
When talking surge protectors there are literally millions of them out there that don't meet current UL standards and that use cheap MOV's (metal-oxide varistors) that are far to low a voltage rating to prevent a fire. There are LOTS of issues with surge protectors so much so that the CPSC has even investigated them... If you "must" have a surge protector please do your home work and buy a good one that has a thermal cut off built in.
I burned up a power strip once, Ponca City, Oklahoma. I was hired to run front-of-house sound for a summer concert series. I don't recall if it was Herman's Hermits or Gary Puckett, but it was sure embarrassing. Apparently, (unknown by me) the venue added an amplifier to accommodate a spare stage mix for the show.
They used a hardware store power strip to split one amp's dedicated circuit to feed two amps. That or they just felt it convenient to hit the power strip power switch... ?????
Woops. Fortunately the fire was contained and we moved the spare amp to an obvious open circuit and tossed the power strip into a metal bucket. The show went on... Fortunately the band knew it was not my fault...
They used a hardware store power strip to split one amp's dedicated circuit to feed two amps. That or they just felt it convenient to hit the power strip power switch... ?????
Woops. Fortunately the fire was contained and we moved the spare amp to an obvious open circuit and tossed the power strip into a metal bucket. The show went on... Fortunately the band knew it was not my fault...
I'm with Ross, surge suppressor on a sailboat??? I guess that if you where a liveaboard this would be an issue with stuff you would plug-in but most of the high draw circuits are hardwired in. A heater is not going to care about voltage surges unless they are EXTREME and does not even need a suppressor.
according to the article it was the circuitry of the ship that caused the power strip to fry. it was not the strip but the ship.
i use power strips with surge protection because some smart guy decided to lighten my boat by removal of my charger/transformer/isolator. good choice, as it takes over 1000 pounds to malke a difference...lol... so i get to jury rig my 120v.....
so, if you decide to use a power strip with surge protection for your on board computer, it prolly wont do the same thing as happened in the SHIP.
granted coast guard doublespeak and gobbledygook is difficult to understand, b ut the key words are ship and ship and the ship is a merchant thing, not a recreational thing. wired differently. completely. i wouldnt give up on surge protectors yet, if you use them to protect your computer. i have yet to smell smoke and i have been using mine for 4 yrs, so far.
i wonder if the user of the power strip was using a 110 v power strip and ship wired for 220??
i use power strips with surge protection because some smart guy decided to lighten my boat by removal of my charger/transformer/isolator. good choice, as it takes over 1000 pounds to malke a difference...lol... so i get to jury rig my 120v.....
so, if you decide to use a power strip with surge protection for your on board computer, it prolly wont do the same thing as happened in the SHIP.
granted coast guard doublespeak and gobbledygook is difficult to understand, b ut the key words are ship and ship and the ship is a merchant thing, not a recreational thing. wired differently. completely. i wouldnt give up on surge protectors yet, if you use them to protect your computer. i have yet to smell smoke and i have been using mine for 4 yrs, so far.
i wonder if the user of the power strip was using a 110 v power strip and ship wired for 220??
A friend of mine just bought a used sailboat. When we were cleaning it up, we found the previous owner had an extension cord run in, and a power strip plugged into that-
and a power strip plugged into that--
and a power strip plugged into that--
and a refrigerator plugged into that!!
Everything but the reefer went into the trash. The reefer got moved to a shop.-grin
and a power strip plugged into that--
and a power strip plugged into that--
and a refrigerator plugged into that!!
Everything but the reefer went into the trash. The reefer got moved to a shop.-grin
This is false as well as misleading. A US flagged "ship" uses the SAME 120V & 240V 60Hz wiring we do on our boats...
While the USCG article makes little sense, mostly because it leaves out a lot of pertinent information, your statements are simply un-true.
My quote of yours had/has nothing to do with your boats wiring or your particular SPD. What I quoted is what is misleading.. Ships and recreational boats in the US use the same 120V / 240V 60Hz wiring standard..
The surges that the protectors are designed for can certainly appear on a boat same as in your house. Shore power comes from the same type of power system as your house. The surges are usually caused by the collapsing magnetic field of a transformer or other inductor. An example of this is a lightning strike or an auto accident causing an instant interruption of current. This can generate huge spikes of short duration. In theory the spikes can be infinite in amplitude and infinitely small in duration.
The thing that makes boats different from houses is most of our electronics are fed from a 12 volt system which is buffered by a large battery. Other electronics fed by shore power have the same risk as your electronics at home. As stated earlier heaters, lights, and such are less susceptible to those voltage spikes.
In addition if you have an isolation transformer on your boat it will tend to flatten the spikes should they occur. The heavier the core (yes I'm talking about weight) in your isolation transformer the more effective it will be in reducing voltage spikes. believe it or not undersize wire also helps, but I wouldn't recommend it for obvious fire reasons.
Another thing: modern well designed equipment such as laptops are less susceptible to those kind of electrical spikes due to better power supply design.
There are no absolute perfect answers. a surge suppressor could certainly be designed for the marine environment, but I don't know of any. Risk of fire? Risk of a damaged TV or computer?
Ken
The thing that makes boats different from houses is most of our electronics are fed from a 12 volt system which is buffered by a large battery. Other electronics fed by shore power have the same risk as your electronics at home. As stated earlier heaters, lights, and such are less susceptible to those voltage spikes.
In addition if you have an isolation transformer on your boat it will tend to flatten the spikes should they occur. The heavier the core (yes I'm talking about weight) in your isolation transformer the more effective it will be in reducing voltage spikes. believe it or not undersize wire also helps, but I wouldn't recommend it for obvious fire reasons.
Another thing: modern well designed equipment such as laptops are less susceptible to those kind of electrical spikes due to better power supply design.
There are no absolute perfect answers. a surge suppressor could certainly be designed for the marine environment, but I don't know of any. Risk of fire? Risk of a damaged TV or computer?
Ken
OK guys I found it
The Coast Guard web page is here:
http://www.uscg.mil/tvncoe/Documents/safetyalerts/SurgeProtectiveDevices.pdf
From reading it (technically, poorly written for a Coast Guard article) it looks like they had a ground loop. This is not likely on a small boat because there is usually only one supply of AC power. They did however point out a potential problem on most of our boats in that the ground is rarely equipped with any type of circuit protection. In most cases an open ground becomes dangerous as an electrocution hazard therefor not used.
Having said all that, it is unlikely to be a problem for any of us. Even if we did have a ground loop, most of our boats are not metal and therefor an appliance won't normally pick up an inadvertent ground to conflict with potential setting on the intended ground.
Ken
The Coast Guard web page is here:
http://www.uscg.mil/tvncoe/Documents/safetyalerts/SurgeProtectiveDevices.pdf
From reading it (technically, poorly written for a Coast Guard article) it looks like they had a ground loop. This is not likely on a small boat because there is usually only one supply of AC power. They did however point out a potential problem on most of our boats in that the ground is rarely equipped with any type of circuit protection. In most cases an open ground becomes dangerous as an electrocution hazard therefor not used.
Having said all that, it is unlikely to be a problem for any of us. Even if we did have a ground loop, most of our boats are not metal and therefor an appliance won't normally pick up an inadvertent ground to conflict with potential setting on the intended ground.
Ken
Shorepower supply can be less than acceptable, especially in remote ports where there is little or no code or enforcement, or there is just no funding to upgrade equipment.
Or due to a nearby or direct lightning strike.
I would be significantly more inclined to use a surge protector on the boat to protect computer or other sensitive equipment than at the home, where the power is stable. Other electrical equipment IE: coffee maker would not be a concern.
However, as others have stated, it must be good equipment, like all boat equipment. There are industrial surge protectors that are used for office equipment, computers, etc., that are robust, functional, and reasonable in cost. IE: An Innovolt Power Manager (picture).
Or due to a nearby or direct lightning strike.
I would be significantly more inclined to use a surge protector on the boat to protect computer or other sensitive equipment than at the home, where the power is stable. Other electrical equipment IE: coffee maker would not be a concern.
However, as others have stated, it must be good equipment, like all boat equipment. There are industrial surge protectors that are used for office equipment, computers, etc., that are robust, functional, and reasonable in cost. IE: An Innovolt Power Manager (picture).
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