surge brake actuator

[walt]

I posted this on the trailer forum yesterday http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=135998

I also looked at Sumner web site and he has this http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/trailer-mods-13.html

I’m hoping Sumner will read this.. but I’m working on my trailer brakes again, plan to leave them as hydraulic drum but am going to replace most of the hydraulic lines and also the coupler. I’m very interested in the Tie down model 66 http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=47210&eq=&Tp= and it turns out to be close to what Sumner used (I think he has disk brakes, I am keeping the stock drums). FYI, in the attached picture, you can see that I’ve ground off the welded on actuator that was on the boat when I bought it. The weld was a pain but it also means I don’t have any holes in the trailer frame so I’m not limited to mounting the same type of coupler..

Anyhow, what I’m wondering is: The Tie down has a pin that will lock out the surge action of the coupler. I’m wondering if this pin is robust enough to say lock the coupler out if I had to drive 100 miles in snowy road conditions? I.e., its intention is for occasionally backing up the trailer but I also want to be able to use it for driving in snowy/icy road conditions.

A little story why I care about this... last winter I was pulling a small trailer with a C15 sailboat (ie, no surge brakes) on a snowy two lane freeway with my Dodge Dakota 4x4. This was just before sunrise with poor visibility. I was doing about 35 mph. I came down a hill and there was a trucker doing about 25 mph in the right lane - lights flashing showing he was going slow. I was about to pass him when a Moron trucker came over the hill behind me doing 60 mph - "because he knew how to drive in these conditions". I tried to brake but the road was too icy, I either had to go around 25 mph truck or smack into his rear. I went around with the little trailer fish tailing. Moron trucker doing 60 mph passed me on the left shoulder - which you couldn’t see because it was snow covered - while Im passing the 25 mph trucker. Moron trucker hit my trailer as he flew by and took off the tail light but blew the fuse for my truck tail lights. I drove to Sumner’s house in Blanding Utah during the daylight hours and we Mac-giver rigged up my truck tail lights.

Anyhow, in this situation, I think surge brakes would have possibly caused the trailer to not stay behind my truck and could have made things worse. So I want the option of disabling them.. I’ve driven my Mac 26S many thousands of miles without the surge brakes working so am not real concerned about driving with them disabled. I’m partly fixing the surge brakes to be legal.

 

[Sumner]

Hi Walt, just have a second, we are up in Provo going to the eye doc..

I would call Tie Down and see if that will work with the drum brakes. On a car the brake reservoir and some other items are different for the disc brakes in the front and drums in the rear if that is what is what the car has.

Drums have springs that pull the pads off and disc don't, so the residual valves that control the fluid in the system are different and they don't use the same amount of fluid on the plunger stroke. Just check first. I see the other one you posted is for 'drum brakes'.

If the coupler assembly won't work in the future with disc brakes I'd try and bite the bullet and just switch now. For less than $500, closer to $400 you would have the new coupler, all the hydralic lines and the new hubs with disc rotors. All of the above work great and will not rust up like the drums.

On the lockout, there is just a hole that you put a pin in. Any pin and I'm not home, but you could probably put in a bolt with a nut on one side if you can reach up in there. I think you can, but I can't look today, maybe tomorrow or tonight. You could drive forever that way.

Now when I've had elect. brakes on a trailer and have driven in snow I'd actually reach down and actuate the trailer brakes first with the manual lever. That worked well. The trailer slows first and will slow the tow vehicle and you haven't locked the brakes on it, so you still have steering. You don't want a lot of brakes anyway on ice/snow.

The surge only react to the pressure from the vehicle stopping. I would go out on a slick road and try with and without the trailer brakes. You might find that it is better to have them working actually. I lived 30 years in Wyoming and drove months every winter to and from town on snow. I use the brakes as a last resort anyway. Once they lock you can't steer. In the situation you described I don't think the brakes would of made it worst, but you do have the option of locking them out.

Also if you get the kit there is an electrical lock-out with it that you connect to the backup lights. I hooked it up and really like it as now anytime on a trip that I have to backup, like say at a gas station, I don't have to get out and pin the coupler. I do pin it at the ramp as I disconnect the wiring to the trailer there. I also pin it when I have the boat's trailer on the ball on my front bumper at home.

Good luck and go disc,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

 

[Barnacle Bill]

That pin that is dangling on a wire is supposed to be inserted into the hole in the ball part of the coupling. You can see the hole on both sides that is situated right behind the ball when the coupler is resting over the ball. That is where you put that pin when you are going down the road. This is on the new Tie Down coupler/actuator that you are buying.

 

[walt]

Sumner and BB, thanks.. you probably remember that I had gone through my brakes in the past - replaced the actuators at the drums and used the guts from the Dico model for the surge actuator in the housing that was welded to the trailer frame - but didn’t replace the hydraulic lines. I drove it 100 miles during which the fluid leaked out and it seemed to have damaged the surge actuator. I think the culprit tube was the two foot flexible hydraulic hose that goes between the frame and the axle. I’m going to stick with the drum brakes for now- its just too dang cold working outside to tackle a job like that before Feb and also don’t want to spend the cash.. I’m going to go ahead and order the Tie Down - some other things about it that also look good.

Interesting about the reversing solenoid http://www.championtrailers.com/REVERSING_SOLENOID_VALVES.HTM

It just shuts off the hydraulic flow when you apply 12 volts. If I get real motivated, I could still add this at any time and just run the wire up to a switch in the cab..

 

[Fred Villiard]

Walt, you want some braking on the trailer in slick conditions, otherwise you can end up looking out you side window and seeing your boat beside you.

The best combination is disc brakes with electro over hydraulic actuator. Carlisle brakes, Titan, Dico and a few others make the actuators. They take a electric brake controler, so you have independant control of the brakes.

I'm somewhat partial to the Carlisle actuator, but the other ones are good also. I'm fairly well experienced towing boats and horses long distances in all weather >100K miles.

Fred