Straight Out Discharge

[Rick Webb]

I am on the board of a nonprofit youth sailing program. We are looking at taking a donation of a boat that still has a straight to overboard discharge setup on the head no holding tank whatsoever. We (I) am not going to go through the effort to make all the changes necessary to make the head functional let alone legal. We are not intending to sail the boat as part of our program if we accept it we will be selling it as quickly as possible and will be using that money for the other boats in the program.



My question is if we removed the hose between the through-hull and the head do you think we might still be subject to a citation were we boarded while out showing the boat or moving it from one marina to another.

 

[redhead78]

I think that will be fine, I would also close the valve, and install a cheap rubber fernco cap on it, or u can probabaly get a cast iron cap at home cheepo for a couple of bucks....Red

 

[Joe]

I think you just need to tag it in the closed position... a zip tie might work, or you may need something wired and stamped like the utility companies use.

 

[kloudie1]

Rick, this is copied from the latest Coast Guard Regs.. Florida says ya have to do what the coast guard says, so locking the valve or removing the handle is fine.. but if ya want to take the hose off, that is OK too. The Regulation:

No discharge zone.
While operating a vessel in an EPA designated no discharge zone, flow-through devices are only permitted if adequately secured to prevent discharges of all treated and untreated sewage. For example, closing the seacock and padlocking, using a non-releasable wire tie, or removing the seacock handle are considered to be sufficient in most cases. For short voyages, locking the door to the head with a padlock or a door handle key lock is another acceptable method. For vessels that routinely operate in no discharge zones a Type III MSD is recommended. For more information see 33 CFR 159.7 and 40 CFR Part 140.

 

[Steve Dion]

I am on the board of a nonprofit youth sailing program.

Note: YOUTH! Put a CAP on the discharge thru hull. This is an accident just waiting to happen. Personally I would remove the toilet from the boat if you are going to take her out sailing.

 

[Rick Webb]

Yutes

The yutes won't be sailing it we are just looking to turn it into cash. I considered removing the head itself and will if necessary but I am not looking for more work.

 

[Benny17441]

You want to save money and just give the new owner the opportunity of doing what he wants. Just close the thru-hull valve and put a padlock to it.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Federal law does not require that any vessel have a toilet...however it does require that all vessels which are equipped with a toilet be plumbed to use it legally. So if you don't plan to use the boat, the simplest solution would be to simply remove the toilet and all related plumbing. None of it is prob'ly worth keeping anyway, and you'll actually have an easier time selling it with all sanitation systems open than with old non-working equipment and stinking hoses. Worst case, you could put a $50 portapotty on it if you have to.

Btw, Claude...the "latest" CG regs haven't changed since they were written in 1979. You'll find 'em in 33 CFR 159.7

State bureaucrats with time on their hands just LOVE put out brochures that include their interpretation of 'em...FL is a great example. Their latest brochure creates the false impression that the "3 mile limit" is NINE miles on the whole Gulf coast of Florida, and totally omits the fact that it's 12 miles on the Gulf side of the Keys. I've heard from several people in the last month who think it's true...it took quite a bit of digging through the FL statute to find out that's it's not.

 

[Bill Roosa]

But Peggy! if you average the east and west coast figures then you get 9 miles. I'm sure the public servant that made that statement just wanted to "represent the facts correclty with out going into the details" ;-)

course the USCG WILL be inspecting you on the details

 

[robertsapp]

Federal law does not require that any vessel have a toilet...however it does require that all vessels which are equipped with a toilet be plumbed to use it legally. So if you don't plan to use the boat, the simplest solution would be to simply remove the toilet and all related plumbing. None of it is prob'ly worth keeping anyway, and you'll actually have an easier time selling it with all sanitation systems open than with old non-working equipment and stinking hoses. Worst case, you could put a $50 portapotty on it if you have to.

Btw, Claude...the "latest" CG regs haven't changed since they were written in 1979. You'll find 'em in 33 CFR 159.7

State bureaucrats with time on their hands just LOVE put out brochures that include their interpretation of 'em...FL is a great example. Their latest brochure creates the false impression that the "3 mile limit" is NINE miles on the whole Gulf coast of Florida, and totally omits the fact that it's 12 miles on the Gulf side of the Keys. I've heard from several people in the last month who think it's true...it took quite a bit of digging through the FL statute to find out that's it's not.

They aren't very good at promulgating the information once published, however. I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida, and all the old salts in my marina think I'm crazy when I tell them they're discharging illegally when they only go out three miles. Our local charts even have the DOE nine mile line on them. Duhhh.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

They're NOT discharging illegally...the limit IS just 3 miles. There are several US "territorial" limits...12 miles for some parts of MARPOL...either 9 or 12 for fishing...and 3 miles for sanitation. Somebody who didn't do his homework picked up the 9 mile limit and MISTAKENLY applied it to sanitation in the flyer.

However, if you go to page 12 in the FLORIDA STATUTE 327.53 MARINE SEWAGE DISCHARGE REGULATION, August 1999, Updated June 2007 Part VI. "Regulated Waters," which is the actual LAW that whoever wrote that bulletin is misquoting, you'll find the following:

"The federal regulations distinguish among types of water bodies and apply different discharge standards to each type of designated water body. These standards apply only to vessels on which a MSD has been installed.70 This zoning schematic imposes effluent limitation of regulated vessels, in addition to the performance standards required for certification and labeling. For instance, in freshwater zones and in state designated no discharge zones discharge is prohibited. In coastal waters out to three nautical miles discharge is allowed if the discharge meets effluent standards. In waters outside three nautical miles from shore discharge is permitted, subject to the rules imposed by international law under MARPOL."

And on page 17, you'll find this:

Thus, in waters outside three nautical miles of the coast vessels may operate and discharge without any marine sanitation devices. Since Type III MSDs are mere holding tanks, the Type III must be secured in a no discharge position in all waters out to three nautical miles. Type I and Type II MSDs may discharge out to three nautical miles (if not in a prohibition zone) if the effluent limit is met (no coli form counts greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and no suspended solids greater than 150).118

And then there's Federal law (33 CFR 159.3) which establishes the "3 mile limit" for sanitation in the whole US (only the feds--EPA--can change it...no state can):

"Territorial seas means the belt of the seas measured from the line of ordinary low water along that portion of the coast which is in direct contact with the open sea and the line marking the seaward limit of inland waters, and extending seaward a distance of 3 miles."

Together, all that leaves little doubt that the same "3 mile limit" that applies to the rest of the country also applies to FL waters. EXCEPT--The EPA granted FL's request to extend that limit in the FL Keys National Marine Sanctuary to 12 miles in the Gulf. It remains 3 miles on the Atlantic side.