Our boat has a Hillerange kerosene burning stove. Does anyone know if its possible to convert this stove to propane by simply installing an adaptor and hooking the fuel line to a propane tank? Coleman products makes an adaptor for converting their white gas camping stoves to burn propane and the hillerange looks an awful lot like the coleman stove. The propane tanks are the small unrefillable tanks used for camping stoves. The only conversions to propane I've read about involve replacement of the entire stove and establishment of a place to store a large propane tank, which is not what I'm suggesting. Also, are there any potential problems in terms of storing such small propane tanks on board? I appreciate any guidance because as you may surmise, I know next to nothing about marine stoves.
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Alcohol
Pete, I had the same problem you do. I desperately wanted to rid myself of the kerosene stove. I wanted to go propane, but since there is precious little storage on the h37c, I decided against sacrificing it for tanks. I went the Origo route. I bought the 2-burner stove (without the oven) with gimbals and it works great. It's as simple as can be and safe as well since it is not pressurized. Re-Pete
Pete, I had the same problem you do. I desperately wanted to rid myself of the kerosene stove. I wanted to go propane, but since there is precious little storage on the h37c, I decided against sacrificing it for tanks. I went the Origo route. I bought the 2-burner stove (without the oven) with gimbals and it works great. It's as simple as can be and safe as well since it is not pressurized. Re-Pete
Propane Stoves
Hillerange stoves are made/marketed by Seaward here in CA. I would definately check with them before making ANY modifications (Check story in this month's Ocean Voyager for a cautionary tale). As to storing the little 1# propane cannisters, I would show them the same respect as any propane tank. There is enough explosive gas in one of those little guys to blow your boat to smithereens. I wrap my BBQ cannisters in a zipper bag (rust protection) and then store them in the anchor locker, which has a drain overboard, just like a propane locker. I also keep the hawse pipe closed with a rag, so if there is a leak, it'll go overboard, not into the boat.
Hillerange stoves are made/marketed by Seaward here in CA. I would definately check with them before making ANY modifications (Check story in this month's Ocean Voyager for a cautionary tale). As to storing the little 1# propane cannisters, I would show them the same respect as any propane tank. There is enough explosive gas in one of those little guys to blow your boat to smithereens. I wrap my BBQ cannisters in a zipper bag (rust protection) and then store them in the anchor locker, which has a drain overboard, just like a propane locker. I also keep the hawse pipe closed with a rag, so if there is a leak, it'll go overboard, not into the boat.
Dont cut corners with Propane
If you are going to convert to LPG)propane), do it right. LPG is a heavier than air gas and it does not take all that much to get to explosive levels. I own a 37C and have converted to LPG. I have a dedicated locker, Electric shutoff and detection system. This is the least you should have. And the previous poster is right there is enough gas in those little bottles to turn your boat into a bomb. Be careful and do it right or not at all.
If you are going to convert to LPG)propane), do it right. LPG is a heavier than air gas and it does not take all that much to get to explosive levels. I own a 37C and have converted to LPG. I have a dedicated locker, Electric shutoff and detection system. This is the least you should have. And the previous poster is right there is enough gas in those little bottles to turn your boat into a bomb. Be careful and do it right or not at all.
propane conversion
I recently added propane to my H30. I have NO storage space on this boat to put a propane locker. After reading the A.B.Y.C. guide on propane I mounted the 20# tank on a fab'ed bracket off the stern. The regulator/solinoid are outside of the boat and a 20ft hose brings the propane into the stove via a thru-deck fitting. Pat
I recently added propane to my H30. I have NO storage space on this boat to put a propane locker. After reading the A.B.Y.C. guide on propane I mounted the 20# tank on a fab'ed bracket off the stern. The regulator/solinoid are outside of the boat and a 20ft hose brings the propane into the stove via a thru-deck fitting. Pat
Propane Stoves
I just finished a conversion to propane from a drop in two burner alcohol...That was like trying to cook on sterno cans..can be done, but what a pain... We found a 2 burner Force 10, with oven at a Nautical fleamarket, for less than 400 bucks...Don't believe it had been lit twice...I went through the trouble of installing all of the appropriate shut offs, as per recomendations...The only item that isn't installed is a sniffer...(and now that I work for WM, that will be done soon..*G* ) I fabricated the lockers out of 8 inch PVC pipe couplings and caps...Not cheap, but cheaper than a locker....Had a local welder make a bracket for me, they are bolted to the backet, and then the bracket was u bolted to the aft rail...The locker has since been moved to a spot on the arch we just finsihed installing...Pictures to follow... email me and I'll be happy to go over any specifics with you....BUT, please do the job right..Propane is a sfe fuel, when handled right...I attened a fire fighter's school for prpane a long time ago, put on by the biggest propane insurance outfit in the world...and the old guy that wa the head instructor had one thing to say, "there is no safe distance" so, play by he rules nad all will be well...Coffe will be hot...Dinner will be tasty, and the bread will be warm... 73 Ed bt
I just finished a conversion to propane from a drop in two burner alcohol...That was like trying to cook on sterno cans..can be done, but what a pain... We found a 2 burner Force 10, with oven at a Nautical fleamarket, for less than 400 bucks...Don't believe it had been lit twice...I went through the trouble of installing all of the appropriate shut offs, as per recomendations...The only item that isn't installed is a sniffer...(and now that I work for WM, that will be done soon..*G* ) I fabricated the lockers out of 8 inch PVC pipe couplings and caps...Not cheap, but cheaper than a locker....Had a local welder make a bracket for me, they are bolted to the backet, and then the bracket was u bolted to the aft rail...The locker has since been moved to a spot on the arch we just finsihed installing...Pictures to follow... email me and I'll be happy to go over any specifics with you....BUT, please do the job right..Propane is a sfe fuel, when handled right...I attened a fire fighter's school for prpane a long time ago, put on by the biggest propane insurance outfit in the world...and the old guy that wa the head instructor had one thing to say, "there is no safe distance" so, play by he rules nad all will be well...Coffe will be hot...Dinner will be tasty, and the bread will be warm... 73 Ed bt
Propane locker
This is for Dan Sheehan or anyone else with propane on a 37-C. Where did you put it? I'm doing the conversion but haven't found anyplace to put a locker. Any hints would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave Stone
This is for Dan Sheehan or anyone else with propane on a 37-C. Where did you put it? I'm doing the conversion but haven't found anyplace to put a locker. Any hints would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave Stone
Propane Location
I mounted two 5-gallon (20-lb) tanks at the base of the mast on "Duet". They are aluminum, so the elements don't bother them, and the solenoid-controlled shutoff valve is tucked under the sail cover. Been there for almost ten years. I feel this is about the safest place on a boat for tanks....out in the breeze where, even if a leak should develop, it is harmlessly dissipated.
I mounted two 5-gallon (20-lb) tanks at the base of the mast on "Duet". They are aluminum, so the elements don't bother them, and the solenoid-controlled shutoff valve is tucked under the sail cover. Been there for almost ten years. I feel this is about the safest place on a boat for tanks....out in the breeze where, even if a leak should develop, it is harmlessly dissipated.
venting
No I didn't install any detectors or special venting yet. I'm considering a detector. The tank being hung on the transom doesn't require any special venting per A.B.Y.C. Pat
No I didn't install any detectors or special venting yet. I'm considering a detector. The tank being hung on the transom doesn't require any special venting per A.B.Y.C. Pat
options for a stove
check out this address www.first-wavemarine.com You'll have to cut and paste it but it's worth the effort. Pat
check out this address www.first-wavemarine.com You'll have to cut and paste it but it's worth the effort. Pat
Propane Detection
I know this is going to stir up alot of alarm; but here goes. I installed a propane system in my 37C following the guidelines of ABYS very closely. I installed a steel tank and after only a few months, noticed rusting of the tank due to condensation in the tank box. I checked with my insurance underwriter (Boat US) for their opinion of installing a forced air venting system for the tank box. In the course of our discussions, they made two points: 1. The forced air venting fan can be a source of sparks and would be very dangerous - that was a NO. Then they said steel tanks have been around long, long before aluminum tanks and they have NO reports of tank failures due to rusting, ever. Aluminum tanks require periodic inspections and must be discarded after X number of years (I don't remember time intervals). My steel tank does not require inspections and is legal forever. 2. Also, because of the new technologies and safety features built into the appliances and propane systems, they suggested that, due to cost, a propane sniffer system was not necessary! Bob MIller Gusty Getaway
I know this is going to stir up alot of alarm; but here goes. I installed a propane system in my 37C following the guidelines of ABYS very closely. I installed a steel tank and after only a few months, noticed rusting of the tank due to condensation in the tank box. I checked with my insurance underwriter (Boat US) for their opinion of installing a forced air venting system for the tank box. In the course of our discussions, they made two points: 1. The forced air venting fan can be a source of sparks and would be very dangerous - that was a NO. Then they said steel tanks have been around long, long before aluminum tanks and they have NO reports of tank failures due to rusting, ever. Aluminum tanks require periodic inspections and must be discarded after X number of years (I don't remember time intervals). My steel tank does not require inspections and is legal forever. 2. Also, because of the new technologies and safety features built into the appliances and propane systems, they suggested that, due to cost, a propane sniffer system was not necessary! Bob MIller Gusty Getaway
Bob......Whaaaaaaat???
Bob, I think I'd get the advice of another underwriter before I made any decisions. Steel tanks DO rust, and when they rust THROUGH, they LEAK! Ask any guy who fills them. All tanks are date-stamped, and are good for 12 (10 in some states) years from that date. Few steel tanks last that long, especially in the salt-sea environment. Barring mistreatment, aluminum tanks WILL last that long, and they're good for re-certification after that. They DON'T rust or corrode, and they are a hell of a lot easier to haul ashore in the dink for refilling. We use propane on our boat, and you can bet I have a sniffer! Even though there is an odorant in propane, the fact that the whistle will blow when just 25% of the "least exlosive concentration" is present, gives us a great deal of peace of mind.....hell, it sometimes whistles when the batteries are charging, sniffing the hydrogen gas that is given off. Also, the "expense" of a sniffer or sniffer/shutoff system is really not that high. I think it is suspect that an insurance company would give such spurious advice.
Bob, I think I'd get the advice of another underwriter before I made any decisions. Steel tanks DO rust, and when they rust THROUGH, they LEAK! Ask any guy who fills them. All tanks are date-stamped, and are good for 12 (10 in some states) years from that date. Few steel tanks last that long, especially in the salt-sea environment. Barring mistreatment, aluminum tanks WILL last that long, and they're good for re-certification after that. They DON'T rust or corrode, and they are a hell of a lot easier to haul ashore in the dink for refilling. We use propane on our boat, and you can bet I have a sniffer! Even though there is an odorant in propane, the fact that the whistle will blow when just 25% of the "least exlosive concentration" is present, gives us a great deal of peace of mind.....hell, it sometimes whistles when the batteries are charging, sniffing the hydrogen gas that is given off. Also, the "expense" of a sniffer or sniffer/shutoff system is really not that high. I think it is suspect that an insurance company would give such spurious advice.
propane loacker
Here is a picture of the propane lockers that I made for our 37 cutter...
Here is a picture of the propane lockers that I made for our 37 cutter...
Attachments
Ed....
I'm intrigued by your photo. Is that an arch I see? I'd love to see more photos so I can get a grip on its orientation. Are we looking aft in the photo? I think that's your primary winch, no? The lockers are nice...did you make them, or are they available for sale somewhere? As I posted earlier in this thread, my 5-gal bottles are at the base of the mast. Like yours, out in the fresh air, but the cannisters are good looking....what size are they? Thanks. Dave
I'm intrigued by your photo. Is that an arch I see? I'd love to see more photos so I can get a grip on its orientation. Are we looking aft in the photo? I think that's your primary winch, no? The lockers are nice...did you make them, or are they available for sale somewhere? As I posted earlier in this thread, my 5-gal bottles are at the base of the mast. Like yours, out in the fresh air, but the cannisters are good looking....what size are they? Thanks. Dave
Propane lockers
They are located on an arch that we just had fabricated and Wendy and I installed...It incorperates; Dingy Davits, relocated the stern light to a high position, mounting for radar, wind generator, two 150 watt solar panels, and two work lights... Lockers for the propane bottle sit on a shelf that is u bolted to the inside of the port side of the arch...It is fabricated out of 2 couplings and an end cap for 8 inch PVC...Latches hold the tops on...There are three "stantions" that are welded to the shelf that surround the coupling and I used some stainless #10 machine screws and cap nuts to secure them. Email me for further pictures, etc...
They are located on an arch that we just had fabricated and Wendy and I installed...It incorperates; Dingy Davits, relocated the stern light to a high position, mounting for radar, wind generator, two 150 watt solar panels, and two work lights... Lockers for the propane bottle sit on a shelf that is u bolted to the inside of the port side of the arch...It is fabricated out of 2 couplings and an end cap for 8 inch PVC...Latches hold the tops on...There are three "stantions" that are welded to the shelf that surround the coupling and I used some stainless #10 machine screws and cap nuts to secure them. Email me for further pictures, etc...
another solution
Here is how we handled the propane problem: http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/propane.html Also, in someone's response they said that aluminum won't corrode. Wrong. The difference between steel and aluminum is that it's very obvious where steel is corroding. Aluminum will pit, and can pit completely through without much visual warning. I've seen it myself. When we were in Jamaica, one refill place wouldn't allow aluminum tanks on their property.
Here is how we handled the propane problem: http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/propane.html Also, in someone's response they said that aluminum won't corrode. Wrong. The difference between steel and aluminum is that it's very obvious where steel is corroding. Aluminum will pit, and can pit completely through without much visual warning. I've seen it myself. When we were in Jamaica, one refill place wouldn't allow aluminum tanks on their property.
Gene.....
You are the FIRST person I've ever heard say that about aluminum tanks. Iv'e had our for 5 years or more, and the comments I get from the guys who fill them are universally the opposite of what you say. There is no doubt that aluminum corrodes (I said it didn't RUST), but absent dissimilar metals to set up anode-cathode type reactions, the aluminum oxide that forms is very protective (read:anodized) and pitting as such is rare. Steel tanks OTOH, are very thin to begin with, rust vigorously unless protected very carefully, and IMHO, belong on a barbecue cart in the back yard.
You are the FIRST person I've ever heard say that about aluminum tanks. Iv'e had our for 5 years or more, and the comments I get from the guys who fill them are universally the opposite of what you say. There is no doubt that aluminum corrodes (I said it didn't RUST), but absent dissimilar metals to set up anode-cathode type reactions, the aluminum oxide that forms is very protective (read:anodized) and pitting as such is rare. Steel tanks OTOH, are very thin to begin with, rust vigorously unless protected very carefully, and IMHO, belong on a barbecue cart in the back yard.
Gene . . .
Gene, i agree 100% with all that Dave Simpson says regarding aluminum propane tanks versus steel. I have a 10lb laydown tank in what at one time was a cooler but now converted to propane locker with drain and venting. This tank has been in there for apprpox. 12 years and in daily use for 10 years. there is no sign of corrosion and no refill station has ever shown any reluctance to refill, or warn me of any potential danger. previous to this tank i went thru 4 steel 5lb tanks used in pairs. think you might need to research this further.
Gene, i agree 100% with all that Dave Simpson says regarding aluminum propane tanks versus steel. I have a 10lb laydown tank in what at one time was a cooler but now converted to propane locker with drain and venting. This tank has been in there for apprpox. 12 years and in daily use for 10 years. there is no sign of corrosion and no refill station has ever shown any reluctance to refill, or warn me of any potential danger. previous to this tank i went thru 4 steel 5lb tanks used in pairs. think you might need to research this further.
That's the way it was
I've seen the aluminum tanks with very small, deep corrosion spots with my own eyes. I was there in Jamaica when they refused to even allow the tank on their property. From their comments I assume they'd had one that looked fine spring a leak previous to our visit. No research needed, but admittedly these may be rare events. Use the information for whatever its worth, which may very well be nothing. For me, I have 2 30 lb steel tanks. They'll last for years if I keep a close watch and touch up the rust spots. The one I didn't look at for 2 years was beyond using again after that time. There are drawbacks to all of them, you just make your pick and take your chances. It's this new valve deal that really makes me mad!
I've seen the aluminum tanks with very small, deep corrosion spots with my own eyes. I was there in Jamaica when they refused to even allow the tank on their property. From their comments I assume they'd had one that looked fine spring a leak previous to our visit. No research needed, but admittedly these may be rare events. Use the information for whatever its worth, which may very well be nothing. For me, I have 2 30 lb steel tanks. They'll last for years if I keep a close watch and touch up the rust spots. The one I didn't look at for 2 years was beyond using again after that time. There are drawbacks to all of them, you just make your pick and take your chances. It's this new valve deal that really makes me mad!
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