A recent topic was on here related to riding out a storm at anchor... What do you do or recommend when you get caught in a storm and there isn't an option to anchor and ride it out? I have not yet been in this circumstance and am looking for some advice ahead of time. thanks! --mike
Storms in Open Water?
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Grab ahold of the tiller and ride it out.
Make sure ya have gloves and foulies on. 1" hail on bare hands hurts!
Make sure ya have gloves and foulies on. 1" hail on bare hands hurts!
How serious of a storm?
I assume you are not talking tropical storms or hurricanes. Anything short of that, i would reduce sail and stay in the cockpit and steer. Auto pilot wont work during a quick and nasty T storm. The auto pilot doesnt react fast enough. Ideally, you would have a storm sail and a tri-sail, but most people dont, at least not until you get into some serious cruising. Bottom line is that you want to have some canvas up to give you steerage and control. Again, there are different levels of storms. I dont know what kind and how severe you are talking about. Each boat has a different point at which you change from storm tactics to survival tactics. That is something that your instincts will have to tell you. Tony B
I assume you are not talking tropical storms or hurricanes. Anything short of that, i would reduce sail and stay in the cockpit and steer. Auto pilot wont work during a quick and nasty T storm. The auto pilot doesnt react fast enough. Ideally, you would have a storm sail and a tri-sail, but most people dont, at least not until you get into some serious cruising. Bottom line is that you want to have some canvas up to give you steerage and control. Again, there are different levels of storms. I dont know what kind and how severe you are talking about. Each boat has a different point at which you change from storm tactics to survival tactics. That is something that your instincts will have to tell you. Tony B
Total agreement
With most of what's said here. Auto pilot is not the way to go, and going below to ride it out is not the way to go. You may keep dry, but that is the only benefit. Reduce sail to whatever is appropriate for you boat, take the helm and ride it out. When it gets really snotty, every boat and every skipper will be different. Whether it's bare poles, storm sails, a sea anchor or whatever means you and your boat need. What may appear to be life threatening for one, may be a minor inconvenience for another.
With most of what's said here. Auto pilot is not the way to go, and going below to ride it out is not the way to go. You may keep dry, but that is the only benefit. Reduce sail to whatever is appropriate for you boat, take the helm and ride it out. When it gets really snotty, every boat and every skipper will be different. Whether it's bare poles, storm sails, a sea anchor or whatever means you and your boat need. What may appear to be life threatening for one, may be a minor inconvenience for another.
I believe you are talking about summer thunderstorms.
I always prefer to go out to deeper waters and get away from shore where I will have room to manuever. Do not like to rely on the anchor holding. If you are talking about tropical storms and hurricanes it is highly advisable to secure the boat as best as you can and go ashore.
I always prefer to go out to deeper waters and get away from shore where I will have room to manuever. Do not like to rely on the anchor holding. If you are talking about tropical storms and hurricanes it is highly advisable to secure the boat as best as you can and go ashore.
The Worst Place is Close to Shore!!!!
Everything depends upon everything!!!!! Yhe worst place to be caught in a storm is close to shore so unless you are sure to make a safe harbor stay out in open water. If the wind is blowing away from dhore you can drop sails and get blown downwind but if you are getting blown towards shore I would keep some sail up!!!! Even local thunderstorms come in all sizes. Some over in 10 minutes dome last for hours. Tactics depend in part on the size of the storm. A big part is the boat. Some boats take care of themselves others require steering. Storms scare me. Not so much the wind and waves as the lightening. So far so good I've been in several storms and been plenty scared of getting fried..but no hits so far. Have had a few hit bolts close. But it is part of sailing. If you sail long enough you will be caught out.
Everything depends upon everything!!!!! Yhe worst place to be caught in a storm is close to shore so unless you are sure to make a safe harbor stay out in open water. If the wind is blowing away from dhore you can drop sails and get blown downwind but if you are getting blown towards shore I would keep some sail up!!!! Even local thunderstorms come in all sizes. Some over in 10 minutes dome last for hours. Tactics depend in part on the size of the storm. A big part is the boat. Some boats take care of themselves others require steering. Storms scare me. Not so much the wind and waves as the lightening. So far so good I've been in several storms and been plenty scared of getting fried..but no hits so far. Have had a few hit bolts close. But it is part of sailing. If you sail long enough you will be caught out.
Full face motor cycle helmet
I read somewhere that a full face MC helmet is great protection in a hail storm, or even a severe downpour. Be sure not to clip the chin strap just in case you go in the water.
I read somewhere that a full face MC helmet is great protection in a hail storm, or even a severe downpour. Be sure not to clip the chin strap just in case you go in the water.
Practical Sailor Report - Sea anchors
Good morning all: This months edition of Practical Sailor has a report on sea anchors and drogues. It would be worth reading for anyone considering venturing offshore. It also gives some suggested sources of information for riding out a large storm and talks about the option of riding a-hull with bare poles. I am not sure that sea anchor or drogues are useful in squall/TS but certainly for prolonged storm conditions they should be considered. Regards Chris
Good morning all: This months edition of Practical Sailor has a report on sea anchors and drogues. It would be worth reading for anyone considering venturing offshore. It also gives some suggested sources of information for riding out a large storm and talks about the option of riding a-hull with bare poles. I am not sure that sea anchor or drogues are useful in squall/TS but certainly for prolonged storm conditions they should be considered. Regards Chris
use of autopilot in storm conditions
I would not recommend using autopilot for maintaining steering while in storm conditions. I am almost certain my unit would fail or not manage to react putting the vessel in grave danger. Even many large ships with gyrocompass and robust steering systems will go to hand steering when in a storm; the autopilot reacts to the head being off the setpoint, the helmsman however can often anticipate yaw especially during daylight with acceptable visibility, etc. You see a large breaking wave approaching from one side and you should instinctively steer up into it, etc. Regards Chris
I would not recommend using autopilot for maintaining steering while in storm conditions. I am almost certain my unit would fail or not manage to react putting the vessel in grave danger. Even many large ships with gyrocompass and robust steering systems will go to hand steering when in a storm; the autopilot reacts to the head being off the setpoint, the helmsman however can often anticipate yaw especially during daylight with acceptable visibility, etc. You see a large breaking wave approaching from one side and you should instinctively steer up into it, etc. Regards Chris
I'm Curious
How many of you people who are posting here and offering instructions and advice on how to handle "storm" conditions have ACTUALLY been (well)offshore in prolonged winds over 40kts and attendant sea conditions??? I'm not talking about a summer squall where the wind might briefly gust over 40kts, I'm talking about a day or two of sustained 40+kt winds offshore. I have. I would simply suggest that unless you ACTUALLY have been out there, you really shouldn't be commenting; unless you, at least, preface your comments with " althought I haven't actually been in OFFSHORE storm conditions, I think...... " Books and armchair advice are fine reading... they are worth about 1% of actual experience. If you really want to answer the initial question, crew on an offshore race, or rally. Mike, the only REAL way to gain offshore heavy weather experience is to go out there and actually do it.
How many of you people who are posting here and offering instructions and advice on how to handle "storm" conditions have ACTUALLY been (well)offshore in prolonged winds over 40kts and attendant sea conditions??? I'm not talking about a summer squall where the wind might briefly gust over 40kts, I'm talking about a day or two of sustained 40+kt winds offshore. I have. I would simply suggest that unless you ACTUALLY have been out there, you really shouldn't be commenting; unless you, at least, preface your comments with " althought I haven't actually been in OFFSHORE storm conditions, I think...... " Books and armchair advice are fine reading... they are worth about 1% of actual experience. If you really want to answer the initial question, crew on an offshore race, or rally. Mike, the only REAL way to gain offshore heavy weather experience is to go out there and actually do it.
Buck Experience in One Boat
Buck experience in one boat does not always translate into how to handle a storm in a different boat. Riding out a storm in a Hood 38 would be different that riding the same storm in a Hunter 25 or even a Catalina 30. But the original post does not say what kind of storm. Most sailers have experienced a thunderstorm lasting a few hours. Most sailers have never experienced a gale at sea. The original post does not mention the body of water or the boat!!! When I had a Helsen 22 on a lake I would go deep into a cove and sit tight until the storm passed. Sailing up Choctawhatchee Bay I rolled up the jb and watched for barges coming out of the storm. A heavy downpour is almost as bad as fog at reducing visability. I also used the autopilot at times steering from underneath the dodger. But I agree with you that specific advice needs to be qualified as the the boat the body of water and if the author is relating actual experience or something that they read.
Buck experience in one boat does not always translate into how to handle a storm in a different boat. Riding out a storm in a Hood 38 would be different that riding the same storm in a Hunter 25 or even a Catalina 30. But the original post does not say what kind of storm. Most sailers have experienced a thunderstorm lasting a few hours. Most sailers have never experienced a gale at sea. The original post does not mention the body of water or the boat!!! When I had a Helsen 22 on a lake I would go deep into a cove and sit tight until the storm passed. Sailing up Choctawhatchee Bay I rolled up the jb and watched for barges coming out of the storm. A heavy downpour is almost as bad as fog at reducing visability. I also used the autopilot at times steering from underneath the dodger. But I agree with you that specific advice needs to be qualified as the the boat the body of water and if the author is relating actual experience or something that they read.
Yeah Buck, many of us have been out there in the crap.
I typically don't talk about something unless I have half a clue.
I typically don't talk about something unless I have half a clue.
Buck I would suggest
that everyone including yourself fill out the profile, then at a glance, we would know what and where you sail and how much experience you have. That would eliminate some of the prefacing. And I agree "Books and armchair advice are fine reading... they are worth about 1% of actual experience" Tony B
that everyone including yourself fill out the profile, then at a glance, we would know what and where you sail and how much experience you have. That would eliminate some of the prefacing. And I agree "Books and armchair advice are fine reading... they are worth about 1% of actual experience" Tony B
Experience
Buck, while I respect the experience you have in handling offshore storms and your insistence that experience is needed to answer this question Mike did not specify offshore storms. I have not been in an offshore storm myself yet but I have to believe that is a totally different experience from a thunderstorm or similar that springs up near to shore. Lets let every poster decide for themselves when they are qualified to answer a question. If they are smart they will qualify their answers as based on experience or theory and those reading this advice, myself included, will take it for what it is worth.
Buck, while I respect the experience you have in handling offshore storms and your insistence that experience is needed to answer this question Mike did not specify offshore storms. I have not been in an offshore storm myself yet but I have to believe that is a totally different experience from a thunderstorm or similar that springs up near to shore. Lets let every poster decide for themselves when they are qualified to answer a question. If they are smart they will qualify their answers as based on experience or theory and those reading this advice, myself included, will take it for what it is worth.
Storm Clarification... Great Lakes?
I am fairly inexperienced on my 33' Hunter and I have yet to experience a storm while out on the water. I'm looking for some background info and suggestions to keep in the back of my head so I am better prepared for when this happens to me out on Lake Michigan. Going from powerboating to sailing it is quite a bit different since it takes me so long to get anywhere (ie: get back into port). I'm getting bored of going out for only 2-3 hour sails and want to venture farther away... thanks! --mike
I am fairly inexperienced on my 33' Hunter and I have yet to experience a storm while out on the water. I'm looking for some background info and suggestions to keep in the back of my head so I am better prepared for when this happens to me out on Lake Michigan. Going from powerboating to sailing it is quite a bit different since it takes me so long to get anywhere (ie: get back into port). I'm getting bored of going out for only 2-3 hour sails and want to venture farther away... thanks! --mike
Great Lakes Storms
Mike - FIrst of, let me clarify for Buck's sake that I do sail on Lake Michigan, have a H35.5 (just a little bigger than yours), and have been out on the lake in varying "storm" conditions - 30+ winds, 6-8 foot waves, lightning, torrential rain, etc. Now, on Lake Michigan, we don't have to worry about tropical storm conditions. Which is not to say that it isn't possible to see winds hit 50-60+. It just isn't nearly as common, and not generally sustained. Storms tend to come in fast, and head out fast. You may see really ugly conditions for hours, but generally not days. Where things get interesting on the lake is the geography - relatively shallow lake (compared to ocean) and surrounding shores. Now, I haven't sailed places like Ches Bay, but I imagine they may have similar situations. What you'll find are steeper waves with shorter wave periods, which seem to magnify the conditions. Also, with waves bouncing off near shores, the lake can seem to get confused, with waves from multiple directions. Most of the advice above is valuable. First off, anticipate the storm. Use the weather radio, use your senses - temp changes, clouds forming, wind shifts - so that you are ready when the storm comes in. You can't race to a safe harbor like a power boat, but you can prepare. Shorten sail appropriately, make sure canvas is secure, close hatches, stow loose items, get your foulies and a harness on. My experience has been that the boat can handle a lot more than I can, so I do my best to make the best of the situation. And as Buck said, just get out there and do it. I'd say I've learned something every time I've been out and it's gotten nasty, either something about sailing, something about my boat, something about my crew, or something about myself. See you out there! T J Furstenau ps - Almost forgot, as mentioned above - as much as I like my autopilot, I'd never rely on it when it turns ugly. They react to and don't anticipate waves. I'll keep my own hands on the wheel, thank you very much.
Mike - FIrst of, let me clarify for Buck's sake that I do sail on Lake Michigan, have a H35.5 (just a little bigger than yours), and have been out on the lake in varying "storm" conditions - 30+ winds, 6-8 foot waves, lightning, torrential rain, etc. Now, on Lake Michigan, we don't have to worry about tropical storm conditions. Which is not to say that it isn't possible to see winds hit 50-60+. It just isn't nearly as common, and not generally sustained. Storms tend to come in fast, and head out fast. You may see really ugly conditions for hours, but generally not days. Where things get interesting on the lake is the geography - relatively shallow lake (compared to ocean) and surrounding shores. Now, I haven't sailed places like Ches Bay, but I imagine they may have similar situations. What you'll find are steeper waves with shorter wave periods, which seem to magnify the conditions. Also, with waves bouncing off near shores, the lake can seem to get confused, with waves from multiple directions. Most of the advice above is valuable. First off, anticipate the storm. Use the weather radio, use your senses - temp changes, clouds forming, wind shifts - so that you are ready when the storm comes in. You can't race to a safe harbor like a power boat, but you can prepare. Shorten sail appropriately, make sure canvas is secure, close hatches, stow loose items, get your foulies and a harness on. My experience has been that the boat can handle a lot more than I can, so I do my best to make the best of the situation. And as Buck said, just get out there and do it. I'd say I've learned something every time I've been out and it's gotten nasty, either something about sailing, something about my boat, something about my crew, or something about myself. See you out there! T J Furstenau ps - Almost forgot, as mentioned above - as much as I like my autopilot, I'd never rely on it when it turns ugly. They react to and don't anticipate waves. I'll keep my own hands on the wheel, thank you very much.
Proper Sail Plan
No doubt what to do is going to depend on how much sea room you have, how bad the conditions are and your particular boat. In the middle of the ocean, a heavy displacement full keel boat may do fine just lying ahull or hove too. An example of how a boat can take care of you. More modern designs may need more "crew input". The suggested reading in the earlier post are excellent resources. Last week, at the start of a race in Raritan Bay, we got hit with a line of thunderstorms. The wind went from 5-10 to 40-50 Knots in less than 1 minute. We saw it coming, got the jib down and prepared to reef the main. Our engine that evening was not reliable. On our way out, we discovered a diesel leak. While trying to reef the main, a line had jammed. We bore off and ran before it. Fortunately, the wind was from the west and we had 15 miles to run to the east. It was a wild ride, but before the wind, all was good. It reminded me of a time 300 miles north of Bermuda, in a full gale with 20 foot seas, we ran before the wind for 14 hours. Quite a ride.
No doubt what to do is going to depend on how much sea room you have, how bad the conditions are and your particular boat. In the middle of the ocean, a heavy displacement full keel boat may do fine just lying ahull or hove too. An example of how a boat can take care of you. More modern designs may need more "crew input". The suggested reading in the earlier post are excellent resources. Last week, at the start of a race in Raritan Bay, we got hit with a line of thunderstorms. The wind went from 5-10 to 40-50 Knots in less than 1 minute. We saw it coming, got the jib down and prepared to reef the main. Our engine that evening was not reliable. On our way out, we discovered a diesel leak. While trying to reef the main, a line had jammed. We bore off and ran before it. Fortunately, the wind was from the west and we had 15 miles to run to the east. It was a wild ride, but before the wind, all was good. It reminded me of a time 300 miles north of Bermuda, in a full gale with 20 foot seas, we ran before the wind for 14 hours. Quite a ride.
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