We have chartered Beneteau's in the Caribbean a few times. These boats have no holding tanks, everything is pumped directly out. The boats were reasonably well maintained, yet there was some upleasant odor. What could we do to remove or decrease odors on charter boats? Vinegar? A bottle of C.P.? What do you think causes the odor? thanks for suggestions.
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All kinds of possibilities...
Permeated hoses, sea water trapped in the head intake...not much you can do about those on a charter. Wet dirty sumps can really stink...a bottle of C.P. will fix that. A wet bilge that hasn't been thoroughly cleaned in a while is another likely source...wet bilges are dark stagnant swamps--the ideal breeding ground for molds, fungi and bacteria that make a boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer...and just dumping in bilge cleaner and/or bleach just adds another ingredient to the primordial soup. Unless you want to clean the bilge--really CLEAN it--on somebody else's boat, not much you can do about that either, except complain to the charter company. You might want to print out and send 'em a printout of the articles "Head Related Odors," "Intake Odor Cure," and "Boat Odor Isn't All in Your Head" in the Head Mistress forum reference library (link on the forum homepage).
Permeated hoses, sea water trapped in the head intake...not much you can do about those on a charter. Wet dirty sumps can really stink...a bottle of C.P. will fix that. A wet bilge that hasn't been thoroughly cleaned in a while is another likely source...wet bilges are dark stagnant swamps--the ideal breeding ground for molds, fungi and bacteria that make a boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer...and just dumping in bilge cleaner and/or bleach just adds another ingredient to the primordial soup. Unless you want to clean the bilge--really CLEAN it--on somebody else's boat, not much you can do about that either, except complain to the charter company. You might want to print out and send 'em a printout of the articles "Head Related Odors," "Intake Odor Cure," and "Boat Odor Isn't All in Your Head" in the Head Mistress forum reference library (link on the forum homepage).
Shame on the charter
I can't believe anyone would charter from a company where polluting the oceans is standard business! Shame on them. When you charter from them ask them if they would like to go swim in what gets flushed into the water they make money from.Pathetic!!!
I can't believe anyone would charter from a company where polluting the oceans is standard business! Shame on them. When you charter from them ask them if they would like to go swim in what gets flushed into the water they make money from.Pathetic!!!
Scott, you're out of order!
Obviously, based on your statements and where you live, you must be out of touch with the real world on the subject of waste disposal and boating. Pump-outs are non-existant in foreign cruising areas such as the Bahamas and Caribbean. Sometimes dillution is the solution to pollution. Even the US EPA believes in that concept!
Obviously, based on your statements and where you live, you must be out of touch with the real world on the subject of waste disposal and boating. Pump-outs are non-existant in foreign cruising areas such as the Bahamas and Caribbean. Sometimes dillution is the solution to pollution. Even the US EPA believes in that concept!
Bob take an Aspirin and relax
It might help your blood pressure. I agree with Scott. If a Charter operator can't dispose of effluent in the correct and safe manner then they shouldn't be in business.
It might help your blood pressure. I agree with Scott. If a Charter operator can't dispose of effluent in the correct and safe manner then they shouldn't be in business.
Sounds Like...
Scott needs the aspirin. Anyone who thinks the rest of the world is as obcessed with political correctness as we are is truly kidding themselves. What's really amazing is how we put the majority of the world's pollution into the air then complain about someone else flushing a little poop into the ocean. We are the only dimwits who carry our waste around in little plastic and aluminum cans while our cars spew carbon monoxide.... Ron
Scott needs the aspirin. Anyone who thinks the rest of the world is as obcessed with political correctness as we are is truly kidding themselves. What's really amazing is how we put the majority of the world's pollution into the air then complain about someone else flushing a little poop into the ocean. We are the only dimwits who carry our waste around in little plastic and aluminum cans while our cars spew carbon monoxide.... Ron
I hate to tell you.....
I hate to tell you folks that if EVERY single boat pumped a full head overboard every week they could not come close to the amount of raw sewage that is discharge by our municipalities in the US. When they discharge it is MILLIONS of gallons. Quite often this is in river and lakes as well as the ocean. They just tell the EPA that they do it and it is OKAY. This is sort of a sad state of affairs for the environment but it is true. I would think that the EPA would have the major sources of pollution cleaned up before they mess with the little guy. I suppose that it makes a bigger impact in the news papers but how knows.
I hate to tell you folks that if EVERY single boat pumped a full head overboard every week they could not come close to the amount of raw sewage that is discharge by our municipalities in the US. When they discharge it is MILLIONS of gallons. Quite often this is in river and lakes as well as the ocean. They just tell the EPA that they do it and it is OKAY. This is sort of a sad state of affairs for the environment but it is true. I would think that the EPA would have the major sources of pollution cleaned up before they mess with the little guy. I suppose that it makes a bigger impact in the news papers but how knows.
I dove in the trenches
It is a place in West Palm beach where they dump raw sewage into the ocean during the week. On the weekend they shut it off to encourage diving. Don't tell all of the fish and sea creatures there they should not like it. I have never seen so many fish, shellfish,etc. They love the stuff. I think they call it food. It only becomes a problem when it gets too concentrated (harbors, etc.) One should never pump out in a limited flow area. Otherwise the fish have a feast. I know it sounds bad but that is what they eat. Think about that next time you order a lobster.
It is a place in West Palm beach where they dump raw sewage into the ocean during the week. On the weekend they shut it off to encourage diving. Don't tell all of the fish and sea creatures there they should not like it. I have never seen so many fish, shellfish,etc. They love the stuff. I think they call it food. It only becomes a problem when it gets too concentrated (harbors, etc.) One should never pump out in a limited flow area. Otherwise the fish have a feast. I know it sounds bad but that is what they eat. Think about that next time you order a lobster.
Steve has a good point
Folks, It may not be politically correct( which was, and is, nonsense anyway), but it seems to me (outside of NDZ, that is) that one day of rain creates more pollution on the water than one whale's dump. For those of you in Rhode Island, how many pumpout stations are there that are actually working? And Steve's point about municipal discharges is right on line - San Francsico dumps more cr-p into the Bay every day than would be done if EVERY SINGLE BOAT WENT SAILING ON ONE DAY and everyone pumped everything overboard. It's time to get a balance. "They" keep picking on boaters because we're rich yachties. Yeah, go tell that to us Good Old Boat-ers. For those of you who really believe that keeping your "stuff" in a little plastic tank are really helping the planet, I suggest you consider these neccessities to be, at the very least, consistent in your arguments: walk to work everyday (like I do), don't ever drive a car or use any polluting device (like I do not, how many of you can afford to? - how the heck do you get from your homes to your boats!?!), only sail without a motor (gee, how many of us do that?), pray it never rains (wouldn't work, would it?), and don't use the "head" in your house (compost, septic tanks, latrines?). The incredibly terrific performance of boat owners in keeping our waters clean is a basic drop in the ocean (not even a bucket - which, it seems to me, would also be a good idea, but what would you do with the contents of the bucket?). We keep it clean, "they" keep polluting it, and keep blaming it on US. How dare they? Going overboard in the Carribean is normal. Geez, where do you think their sewage goes? And the % of poulation to water area is nil, compared to us city dwellers. Let's get real: we're a small and unorganized portion of the populace. We boat to get away not to organize. They'll keep making NDZs, which make no sense, when technology shows that certain on board treatments are BETTER than what THEY stuff down our throats (literally, if you swim...). Sorry for the rant, but it's been building up for some time. Thanks for listening.
Folks, It may not be politically correct( which was, and is, nonsense anyway), but it seems to me (outside of NDZ, that is) that one day of rain creates more pollution on the water than one whale's dump. For those of you in Rhode Island, how many pumpout stations are there that are actually working? And Steve's point about municipal discharges is right on line - San Francsico dumps more cr-p into the Bay every day than would be done if EVERY SINGLE BOAT WENT SAILING ON ONE DAY and everyone pumped everything overboard. It's time to get a balance. "They" keep picking on boaters because we're rich yachties. Yeah, go tell that to us Good Old Boat-ers. For those of you who really believe that keeping your "stuff" in a little plastic tank are really helping the planet, I suggest you consider these neccessities to be, at the very least, consistent in your arguments: walk to work everyday (like I do), don't ever drive a car or use any polluting device (like I do not, how many of you can afford to? - how the heck do you get from your homes to your boats!?!), only sail without a motor (gee, how many of us do that?), pray it never rains (wouldn't work, would it?), and don't use the "head" in your house (compost, septic tanks, latrines?). The incredibly terrific performance of boat owners in keeping our waters clean is a basic drop in the ocean (not even a bucket - which, it seems to me, would also be a good idea, but what would you do with the contents of the bucket?). We keep it clean, "they" keep polluting it, and keep blaming it on US. How dare they? Going overboard in the Carribean is normal. Geez, where do you think their sewage goes? And the % of poulation to water area is nil, compared to us city dwellers. Let's get real: we're a small and unorganized portion of the populace. We boat to get away not to organize. They'll keep making NDZs, which make no sense, when technology shows that certain on board treatments are BETTER than what THEY stuff down our throats (literally, if you swim...). Sorry for the rant, but it's been building up for some time. Thanks for listening.
Alaska Cruise Ships
And another loophole: the cruise ships that cruise from Seattle/Vancouver to Alaska direct discharge along the way. Fortunately there are environmentalists that are working to change that and require the ships to use treatment facilities. Juneau has instituted some clean air requirements for the cruise ships. Maybe people in the northwest are a bit more sensitive when it comes to pollution. Or perhaps just more vocal, or both?
And another loophole: the cruise ships that cruise from Seattle/Vancouver to Alaska direct discharge along the way. Fortunately there are environmentalists that are working to change that and require the ships to use treatment facilities. Juneau has instituted some clean air requirements for the cruise ships. Maybe people in the northwest are a bit more sensitive when it comes to pollution. Or perhaps just more vocal, or both?
Where do the Fish doo-doo Their Thing?
Pretty gruesome to think of all of the fish excrement we swim around in. With all of the water fish drink they must pee an awful lot. Whatever are we to do?
Pretty gruesome to think of all of the fish excrement we swim around in. With all of the water fish drink they must pee an awful lot. Whatever are we to do?
Priorities
OK, so everyone lobbies for no-discharge instead of treated waste. What do we get? Something like Marina del Rey, CA with ONE public pump-out for 6,000 boats. Sometimes, it even works. Give me a break. Meanwhile, the L.A. 'River' discharges HUGE quantities of major pollutants. Take Avalon Harbor as another example. There, they dye-pellet you when you take a mooring and after you come back if you leave. Been doing it for at least ten years. Guess what. Water still bad. Guess the source. NOT boats. I admire some of the work Save-The-Bay does here, but I won't give them a dime until I see them seriously lobby for more and accessible pump-outs. We all should do our part to limit pollutants of all types from our boating activities, but we are only one - and a small one - part of the problem. But, we are an easy target. The boating lobby needs our monetary and intellectual support to not just ward off onerous legislation and regulation, but to also direct attention to the municipal and other sources of crud fouling our sailing environment. End of rant. Rick D.
OK, so everyone lobbies for no-discharge instead of treated waste. What do we get? Something like Marina del Rey, CA with ONE public pump-out for 6,000 boats. Sometimes, it even works. Give me a break. Meanwhile, the L.A. 'River' discharges HUGE quantities of major pollutants. Take Avalon Harbor as another example. There, they dye-pellet you when you take a mooring and after you come back if you leave. Been doing it for at least ten years. Guess what. Water still bad. Guess the source. NOT boats. I admire some of the work Save-The-Bay does here, but I won't give them a dime until I see them seriously lobby for more and accessible pump-outs. We all should do our part to limit pollutants of all types from our boating activities, but we are only one - and a small one - part of the problem. But, we are an easy target. The boating lobby needs our monetary and intellectual support to not just ward off onerous legislation and regulation, but to also direct attention to the municipal and other sources of crud fouling our sailing environment. End of rant. Rick D.
My two cents
I'm pretty much in the group that believes in a little common sense. On one hand I am aware that some are born without any, and others are too self-absorbed to use what they have, yet I'd much rather use common sense than try to have regulations that dictate one size fits all. There are many places where direct discharge is entirely appropriate and without major consquence. Yet we all know that there are bays that do not "flush" or are too overcrowded with charter and other boats for it to be anywhere near appropriate for direct discharage. I undestand what the charter company has done and why, but I think it is pretty shortsighted.
I'm pretty much in the group that believes in a little common sense. On one hand I am aware that some are born without any, and others are too self-absorbed to use what they have, yet I'd much rather use common sense than try to have regulations that dictate one size fits all. There are many places where direct discharge is entirely appropriate and without major consquence. Yet we all know that there are bays that do not "flush" or are too overcrowded with charter and other boats for it to be anywhere near appropriate for direct discharage. I undestand what the charter company has done and why, but I think it is pretty shortsighted.
Scott and Mark...I hate to tell you but
I think this is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) down in the BVI's. I don't think any of the Charter Companies down there enforce (or even encourage) holding tank usage. Its just the way it is. When I first saw that I was dumbstruck. But then after chartering and realizing all boats are doing that I was amazed at how beautiful the water is down there. Obviuosly the eco-system in the BVI's are handling it OK. I can even remember snorkeling around in the anchorages in the crystal blue waters and suddenly thinking "hmm, I really can't tell"....except perhaps if I look *really* hard I found tiny bits of white TP scattered around...he, he.....But one thing we learned is to make sure that NO ONE was swimming around the boat when anyone was using the head...." Fire in the Hole !!" ......LOL
I think this is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) down in the BVI's. I don't think any of the Charter Companies down there enforce (or even encourage) holding tank usage. Its just the way it is. When I first saw that I was dumbstruck. But then after chartering and realizing all boats are doing that I was amazed at how beautiful the water is down there. Obviuosly the eco-system in the BVI's are handling it OK. I can even remember snorkeling around in the anchorages in the crystal blue waters and suddenly thinking "hmm, I really can't tell"....except perhaps if I look *really* hard I found tiny bits of white TP scattered around...he, he.....But one thing we learned is to make sure that NO ONE was swimming around the boat when anyone was using the head...." Fire in the Hole !!" ......LOL
Pump under way
Our idea on BVI charter cruises is to use the head underway, to avoid loading up the anchorages, or leaving unsightly "floaters". We were on a catamaran so this was easy to do. Sometimes we just delayed flushing until we were out of the anchorage. David Lady Lillie
Our idea on BVI charter cruises is to use the head underway, to avoid loading up the anchorages, or leaving unsightly "floaters". We were on a catamaran so this was easy to do. Sometimes we just delayed flushing until we were out of the anchorage. David Lady Lillie
Fish pee
Submitted by Rick Webb of Valpariso, FL on 10/02 at 09:49PM regarding General_interest "With all of the water fish drink they must pee an awful lot. Whatever are we to do?" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, the bodies of marine fishes are less salty than their environment, so they tend to lose water to the sea and gain salts. Therefore, although they do drink water, they produce very small amounts of highly concentrated urine. The body tisues of freshwater fishes, on the other hand, are saltier than the surrounding environment, so they tend to gain water and lose salts. Freshwater fishes do not drink water, and they produce copious amounts of urine that is very dilute. [/useless fish trivia] Back to the discussion. I am always bemused, when dutifully I pump out my holding tank, to think that the waste I'm pumping out is going into the Chicago waste treatment system, which eventually puts it into the lake, from which I am prohibited from putting it myself.
Submitted by Rick Webb of Valpariso, FL on 10/02 at 09:49PM regarding General_interest "With all of the water fish drink they must pee an awful lot. Whatever are we to do?" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, the bodies of marine fishes are less salty than their environment, so they tend to lose water to the sea and gain salts. Therefore, although they do drink water, they produce very small amounts of highly concentrated urine. The body tisues of freshwater fishes, on the other hand, are saltier than the surrounding environment, so they tend to gain water and lose salts. Freshwater fishes do not drink water, and they produce copious amounts of urine that is very dilute. [/useless fish trivia] Back to the discussion. I am always bemused, when dutifully I pump out my holding tank, to think that the waste I'm pumping out is going into the Chicago waste treatment system, which eventually puts it into the lake, from which I am prohibited from putting it myself.
Excuse Me While I Go Down Below to Macerate
On several of our BVI trips, we have chartered yachts with holding tanks and macerators. I believe this is the real solution for the charter industry. While in an anchorage, we would allow our waste to build up in a holding tank. I think that is a real benefit in some of the more crowded and protected anchorages down in the BVIs. Every morning, once we were out in the open water, someone would volunteer to go down below to macerate.
On several of our BVI trips, we have chartered yachts with holding tanks and macerators. I believe this is the real solution for the charter industry. While in an anchorage, we would allow our waste to build up in a holding tank. I think that is a real benefit in some of the more crowded and protected anchorages down in the BVIs. Every morning, once we were out in the open water, someone would volunteer to go down below to macerate.
Try to be a Smart Ass
and you learn something every time. Another question though. Does all that salt in the ocean make the fish want to drink more, kinda like the nuts and pretzels on the bar?
and you learn something every time. Another question though. Does all that salt in the ocean make the fish want to drink more, kinda like the nuts and pretzels on the bar?
Throw hat through door
I thought I would throw my hat through this door and see if it comes back tattered. First I apologize To Suzie of Berkley as I ment no disrespect to You. I passionately love sailing and the water in which to do so. In the winter this site Is what gets me through to the spring. To all of you who replied either positive or negative,This is a sensitive topic and I respect your thoughts and feelings."I almost needed an asprin after reading all of this". I have been fortunate enough to sail some beautiful lakes in Wyoming and Idaho.I have only sailed on the Pacific ocean 5 times. So more than blame anyone for anything, As a sailor from where I live, I wish the boating community would be the first to set the right example so we dont become the real polluters defence target. Doing the wrong thing doesn't make it right just because other people are doing it too. Coral reefs are dying in our oceans, that is the start of the end for our oceans. I just thought I would try to start somewhere. The heads on these boats for rent need to be cleaned at some point do they use bowl cleaner? which many brands contain acid or other toxins. Do they haul them out for every cleaning? I guess what I am saying is, If I am ever fortunate enough to charter a nice sail boat in a beautifull place I would choose a company with holding tanks for raw sewage.
I thought I would throw my hat through this door and see if it comes back tattered. First I apologize To Suzie of Berkley as I ment no disrespect to You. I passionately love sailing and the water in which to do so. In the winter this site Is what gets me through to the spring. To all of you who replied either positive or negative,This is a sensitive topic and I respect your thoughts and feelings."I almost needed an asprin after reading all of this". I have been fortunate enough to sail some beautiful lakes in Wyoming and Idaho.I have only sailed on the Pacific ocean 5 times. So more than blame anyone for anything, As a sailor from where I live, I wish the boating community would be the first to set the right example so we dont become the real polluters defence target. Doing the wrong thing doesn't make it right just because other people are doing it too. Coral reefs are dying in our oceans, that is the start of the end for our oceans. I just thought I would try to start somewhere. The heads on these boats for rent need to be cleaned at some point do they use bowl cleaner? which many brands contain acid or other toxins. Do they haul them out for every cleaning? I guess what I am saying is, If I am ever fortunate enough to charter a nice sail boat in a beautifull place I would choose a company with holding tanks for raw sewage.
Sorta, Scott
No one would disagree with you. But, setting an example is only one, and unfortunately, perhaps a small (but important) part of the solution. There are huge amounts of municipal waste flowing into coastal areas in heavily-populated sections. Some is sewage, some contaminated run-off. The boating lobby should be heavily supported by us to join in the effort to clean that up. I doubt it is a priority. First, the boating lobby is likely more defensive than offensive. Second, we are not well organized and lack much of a local (state)presense. Third, to do so would be to join up with some of our traditional antagonists (who would just as soon have fewer of us) which requires a lot of skill and a strong stomach. There isn't a lot of passion in heavy-lifting politically for recreational sports. The money for much of the lobby effort likely is born by marine industries and clean water isn't a priority for them. Municipalities also are not our friends and would sooner point the finger elsewhere, often at us. And, the press takes that as blind truth. Upshot? Boat US is a start, but isn't near adequate. We, the community of boaters, need to form or support state-level organizations, expand the federal lobby, co-ordinate the effort, donate more to it and participate in setting the priorities. Look at what the Native Americans have done in the last few years as one example. If I'm wrong, sorry, and correct me. Just a bit of a hot-button with me since I hit dead-ends a few years ago looking for information and positions. Rick D.
No one would disagree with you. But, setting an example is only one, and unfortunately, perhaps a small (but important) part of the solution. There are huge amounts of municipal waste flowing into coastal areas in heavily-populated sections. Some is sewage, some contaminated run-off. The boating lobby should be heavily supported by us to join in the effort to clean that up. I doubt it is a priority. First, the boating lobby is likely more defensive than offensive. Second, we are not well organized and lack much of a local (state)presense. Third, to do so would be to join up with some of our traditional antagonists (who would just as soon have fewer of us) which requires a lot of skill and a strong stomach. There isn't a lot of passion in heavy-lifting politically for recreational sports. The money for much of the lobby effort likely is born by marine industries and clean water isn't a priority for them. Municipalities also are not our friends and would sooner point the finger elsewhere, often at us. And, the press takes that as blind truth. Upshot? Boat US is a start, but isn't near adequate. We, the community of boaters, need to form or support state-level organizations, expand the federal lobby, co-ordinate the effort, donate more to it and participate in setting the priorities. Look at what the Native Americans have done in the last few years as one example. If I'm wrong, sorry, and correct me. Just a bit of a hot-button with me since I hit dead-ends a few years ago looking for information and positions. Rick D.
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