When we come back to the boat on weekends our head has 3 to 5 inches of lake water in it and it smells horrible. We pump the bowl dry before we leave. All the thru hull valves are shut and the flush valve is in the dry flush position. Any suggestions on what we can do to prevent this would be appreciated.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
If you're sure all the seacocks are closed
A thru-hull is leaking...'cuz there's only one way that water outside the boat can rise inside the boat--through a hole in the boat. After fall haulout, I strongly recommend you inspect and rebed as necessary ALL your thru-hulls and seacocks (and btw, 3M 5200 is not suitable for that application). Meanwhile, you can stop the water from reaching the bowl by installing a vented loop in your head intake. It should be at least a foot above the waterline at any angle of heel, and has to go between the pump and the bowl. This is NOT something to ignore! Water will rise to the waterline on the boat...if it hasn't yet, it's only because the leak is slow to do it in 4 or 5 days. But if your bowl is below the waterline, more time or a leak that gets bigger (leaks have a way of doing that) can sink your boat!
A thru-hull is leaking...'cuz there's only one way that water outside the boat can rise inside the boat--through a hole in the boat. After fall haulout, I strongly recommend you inspect and rebed as necessary ALL your thru-hulls and seacocks (and btw, 3M 5200 is not suitable for that application). Meanwhile, you can stop the water from reaching the bowl by installing a vented loop in your head intake. It should be at least a foot above the waterline at any angle of heel, and has to go between the pump and the bowl. This is NOT something to ignore! Water will rise to the waterline on the boat...if it hasn't yet, it's only because the leak is slow to do it in 4 or 5 days. But if your bowl is below the waterline, more time or a leak that gets bigger (leaks have a way of doing that) can sink your boat!
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Tom Ehmke
Peggy, more about standing water in the head
No, I didn't say standing in the water in the head... After implementing your suggestions regarding rebuilding the head and holding tank, I'm 110% satisfied with the performance of the holding tank. However, Kevin's problem with water standing in the head is similar to my own. I have installed a vented loop in the intake side and I can actually hear it work when I flush the head, but after 5-10 min. water seems to seep into the bowl from somewhere and I can't get the bowl to remain completely evacuated... or is it supposed to remain COMPLETELY empty?? There is another vented loop on the outlet side of the head. Could the siphoning(?) problem occur if that vent is plugged or not functioning correctly for some reason? I don't want to hear any comments about being anal about the head either... Tom
No, I didn't say standing in the water in the head... After implementing your suggestions regarding rebuilding the head and holding tank, I'm 110% satisfied with the performance of the holding tank. However, Kevin's problem with water standing in the head is similar to my own. I have installed a vented loop in the intake side and I can actually hear it work when I flush the head, but after 5-10 min. water seems to seep into the bowl from somewhere and I can't get the bowl to remain completely evacuated... or is it supposed to remain COMPLETELY empty?? There is another vented loop on the outlet side of the head. Could the siphoning(?) problem occur if that vent is plugged or not functioning correctly for some reason? I don't want to hear any comments about being anal about the head either... Tom
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Hear WHAT work???
A vented loop doesn't have any working parts...it just creates an air break. There's nothing to hear. I suspect your seepage is just water--at least it should be only water if you're flushing long enough...not quitting as soon as the bowl is empty draining back into the head from the line between the head and the top of the vented loop (the one in the head discharge hose). How long has it been since you replaced the joker valve?
A vented loop doesn't have any working parts...it just creates an air break. There's nothing to hear. I suspect your seepage is just water--at least it should be only water if you're flushing long enough...not quitting as soon as the bowl is empty draining back into the head from the line between the head and the top of the vented loop (the one in the head discharge hose). How long has it been since you replaced the joker valve?
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Tom Ehmke
Stinky head-standing water
Peggy, The head was new two seasons ago. (GrocoHF with bronze base) The sound I hear is a hiss which I assumed was air replacing water when the vent opened in the inlet line. The vent I used is a 3/4"Marelon loop by Forespar which I installed before launching this spring. I had never heard the sound before installing the vented loop. Now I think I'll have to look for a loose clamp or something which is causing the hissing sound when I pump. As to the number of pumps after flipping the lever, I never pump less than 15-20 times. Is there enough water in the up side of the vented loop to back into the bowl to a depth of 2-3"? The vent rises about 30" from the back of the head before looping. What happens if the vented loop is plugged and not working properly? If it is plugged and could be the source of the backflow, I can remove it and clean it or replace it.By the way I regularly dump head lube in the head and pump it through before I close down the system and go home. What lifespan does a joker valve have? I don't want to be told that it depends on how full of it the crew is either...
Peggy, The head was new two seasons ago. (GrocoHF with bronze base) The sound I hear is a hiss which I assumed was air replacing water when the vent opened in the inlet line. The vent I used is a 3/4"Marelon loop by Forespar which I installed before launching this spring. I had never heard the sound before installing the vented loop. Now I think I'll have to look for a loose clamp or something which is causing the hissing sound when I pump. As to the number of pumps after flipping the lever, I never pump less than 15-20 times. Is there enough water in the up side of the vented loop to back into the bowl to a depth of 2-3"? The vent rises about 30" from the back of the head before looping. What happens if the vented loop is plugged and not working properly? If it is plugged and could be the source of the backflow, I can remove it and clean it or replace it.By the way I regularly dump head lube in the head and pump it through before I close down the system and go home. What lifespan does a joker valve have? I don't want to be told that it depends on how full of it the crew is either...
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Tom, it has nothing to do with the vented loop
Only with about 30" of 1.5" hose rising vertically out of your toilet--and yes, there'd be enough left in it to rise to 2-3" in your bowl...that's less than a cupful. And how well lubricated the toilet is--or isn't--has nothing to do with it. The vented loop only provides an air break to prevent water from flowing over the top of it from the thru-hull in the event of a siphon. 2-3" of water in the bottom of your bowl is less than a cupful, so yes...in 30" of 1.5" hose, there can easily be that much left--even after pumping dry--to run back down. A joker valve is a cup-shaped rubber doo-dad in the head discharge fitting that has a slit in the bottom of the cup and "lips" on the outside...it's supposed to prevent backflow. Over time bowl contents forced through it stretches the slit, and after about a year the slit can't close tightly any more. Even a brand new joker valve will allow some seepage, but it's very slow. If you're getting 2-3" of water back into the bowl after every flush, it's WAY past time to replace the joker valve...'cuz the slit isn't closing at all. It should be done every year. I'd also recommend rebuilding the toilet every two years...the joker valve is part of the rebuild kit...and since your head is two years old, you can kill both birds with one stone. The air valve in a vented loop doesn't open and close...it's just a one valve that only allows air in. It shouldn't hiss, so it sounds like it needs cleaning.
Only with about 30" of 1.5" hose rising vertically out of your toilet--and yes, there'd be enough left in it to rise to 2-3" in your bowl...that's less than a cupful. And how well lubricated the toilet is--or isn't--has nothing to do with it. The vented loop only provides an air break to prevent water from flowing over the top of it from the thru-hull in the event of a siphon. 2-3" of water in the bottom of your bowl is less than a cupful, so yes...in 30" of 1.5" hose, there can easily be that much left--even after pumping dry--to run back down. A joker valve is a cup-shaped rubber doo-dad in the head discharge fitting that has a slit in the bottom of the cup and "lips" on the outside...it's supposed to prevent backflow. Over time bowl contents forced through it stretches the slit, and after about a year the slit can't close tightly any more. Even a brand new joker valve will allow some seepage, but it's very slow. If you're getting 2-3" of water back into the bowl after every flush, it's WAY past time to replace the joker valve...'cuz the slit isn't closing at all. It should be done every year. I'd also recommend rebuilding the toilet every two years...the joker valve is part of the rebuild kit...and since your head is two years old, you can kill both birds with one stone. The air valve in a vented loop doesn't open and close...it's just a one valve that only allows air in. It shouldn't hiss, so it sounds like it needs cleaning.
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