Still stumped on electrical for Beta installation

[ronbodkin]

I installed new cables from the battery in the same configuration as
the original vega.

Starting battery, positive through master switch and to alternator on
Beta. Negative to open lug on beta.

But for the house circuit, I ran the positive to the load side of the
house master switch, but I don't know where to go from there since
the beta does not have both an alternator and a dynastart?

My house circuit cannot be charged by the battery, an nothing works
even if I charge the battery with shore power, I assume because it is
not completing a circuit.

Can anyone help?

I'm afraid to launch without being sure my auto bilge pump has a
means of power.

Ron
Whisper
2751

 

[robertgainer]

Ron,
Where does the negative wire for the house battery go?
Does the engine start and charge the starting battery?
All the best,
Robert Gainer

 

[ronbodkin]

I have run the negative from the house battery to the same point on
the engine as the starting battery (same cable-one cable from neg on
house bat. to negative on starting bat. then another cable from
negative of starting to the point on the engine suggested by Beta.)

I have not tried starting the Beta because I don't want to install
the fuel tank until I am sure the bilge pump is operational.
(removing the tank with fuel is enough of an ordeal that I don't want
to have to do it again to get to the bilge pump)

I think the problem is that while the positive from the house battery
is connected to the load side of the house master switch, I don't
know where to attach the other side of the switch. (it used to go to
the alternator)

I'm OK with losing the ability of the engine to charge the house
battery for now, but i would still like to use the house circuit to
power lights bilge pump etc.

My instincts are telling me that I should run a cable from the non
load side of the house master switch back to the negative attachment
point on the engine so that I complete the house circuit, but I'm not
sure.

 

[robertgainer]

Ron,
The house battery switch is just to break the hot part of the system on one
or more batteries. The switch has nothing to do with the negative side of
the system. In some types of switches there is a wire that goes to the
alternator to energize the field. How many posts are on the back of the
switch?

The ground goes from the negative terminal or in some boats the engine block
to the negative connection at the panel. So what you need is a wire from the
positive side of the battery to the input side of the switch and the output
side of the switch goes to the feed of the electric panel. The ground in the
system, the negative terminal or the engine block if the battery grounds to
the engine, goes to the ground at the panel.

The ground at the panel may be a bolt with lots of wires going to it or it
may be a bar of copper with lots of wires going to it. You are going to have
to trace a wire from the ground of something that you can find to see where
it goes and then you can make the connection to the negative side.

One thing that might help is if you can find a pair of wires going to the
panel, from your vhf radio for instance and the wire without the fuse is the
ground. Trace that one and see where it goes.

I wish I could see what you are looking at; it?s very likely that just one
misplaced wire is the trouble. To avoid getting in any deeper don?t
disconnect any more wires. They were right before the engine change and the
chances are they are correct now.
Good luck and if you need some encouragement let me know.
Robert Gainer

 

[alan_critchlow]

Hi Ron

The old house battery, engine battery delimma. The alternator will
charge the two batteries to the same level if wired in paralllel.
Check out the 2003 West Marine catalogue for their solution. Refer to
the Nigel Calder bible for the most in depth analysis. The easiest
solution is to charge one or the other battery at a time using
battery switches.

I started the Beta by ignoring all the house connections. I went from
the battery negative to a bolt on the engine. Then the positive went
from the starter to the positive on the battery. I stuck the intake
hose in a bucket and the engine started in 5 seconds.

I am completely rewiring the panel. I will keep the group up to date
on what I did.

Alan

 

[ronbodkin]

There are two posts on the switch.

As it was wired before, the positive from the battery was connected
to the same side as a bunch of red wires to the load side of the
panel,(i'm pretty sure) then the other post had a wire that lead to
the alternator on the Md6a. (which doesen't seem right to me,
because that would make the panel hot whether or not the switch was
on, and it definately did not work that way)

So lets say the multiple red wires that fed the panel must have been
on the same post as the alternator wire. Makes sense. but by my
hooking them up the way I remembered, the panel should have been
essentially hardwired to the battery and things should have worked.

I think the problem must be on the ground side. I found a grounding
bar that all of the black wires from the panel go to, but I don't
understand where it goes from there. It has one larger wire leading
out from it to a post on the side of the voltage regulator, and there
are at least two other wires on that post.

I guess that is my problem I need to try to understand how everything
gets grounded. Maybe that had a wire that grounded to the old
engine, from that post on the side of the regulator. Maybe I could
ground that bar directly to the engine. (cant see why the regulator
would need to be involved on that side of the circuit)

I wish I could live video feed to someone who knew a little more
about what they were doing. Maybe I'll take some digital pictures
next time, if I cannot figure it out.

I think I could get the engine running easily enough, but I'd like to
find a short term solution to everything else without re-wiring the
boat, and spending more dough.

 

[robertgainer]

Ron said ?There are two posts on the switch.?
*
Good, that means that the switch is just a single pole single throw switch.
On or off.
*
Ron said ?As it was wired before, the positive from the battery was
connected
to the same side as a bunch of red wires to the load side of the
panel,(i'm pretty sure) then the other post had a wire that lead to
the alternator on the Md6a. (which doesen't seem right to me,
because that would make the panel hot whether or not the switch was
on, and it definately did not work that way)?

?So lets say the multiple red wires that fed the panel must have been
on the same post as the alternator wire. Makes sense. but by my
hooking them up the way I remembered, the panel should have been
essentially hardwired to the battery and things should have worked.?
*
Good, just to figure this out connect them to the positive post on the
battery.
*
?I think the problem must be on the ground side. I found a grounding
bar that all of the black wires from the panel go to, but I don't
understand where it goes from there. It has one larger wire leading
out from it to a post on the side of the voltage regulator, and there
are at least two other wires on that post.?
*
Good, again, just to figure this out take that wire off the regulator and
hook it up to the negative post on the battery. Does the house panel work
now? If it does you have figured it out and you now need to find the wiring
diagram for the new engines charging circuit. Let me know what happens next.
Good luck and all the best,
Robert Gainer

 

[zaza_sese]

Hello

You'd have a common ground point somewhere on the engine. In the original
Albin motor, this is a bolt on the side of the engine.
The ground lines of all devices must end up there, one way or the other,
possibly without forming closed loops. All grounds must be always connected,
no switches. I suppose the alternator is electrically in contact with the
engine. If not, it should be, and it seems from what you say that the ground
point is placed on the alternator itself. You must have a solid common
ground point.
Sometimes, depending on how the alternator is mounted (e.g. when they use
aluminium brackets), and because of oxidation, the electrical contact
between the alternator and the engine is weak, and a thick cable from the
alterantor to the engine chassis is needed.

The thick wire from the alternator should not go to the panel and then to
the battery from there, instead it should go directly to the battery. This
is because the charge current requires a thick and short wire, and as a
means of separation between the charger and some electronic appliances you
might have. The panel should be supplied through a separate wire from the
battery.

You can make a drawing of the wirings and send it, if you want.

marco