I am looking at various methods to “stiffen” up my Hunter 22. Adding weight to the bilge is a common practice, but as those of you who are familiar with the 22, and her internal ballast know, this is not a solution. One of the methods I have thought about is adding weight to the centerboard. I believe a small amount of weight (fifty pounds?) placed on the “tip” of the board would dramatically increase her resistance to healing. I have thought up several arguments against this, but would like to hear your thoughts. Thanx in advance. GaryG
"Stiffen" her up.
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Think weight aloft
For every pound of weight you can remove from the top of the mast is equal to adding 5.25 pounds to the bottom of the keel/center board. Think about all the weight that you can remove above the deck, making your boat lighter is always better than making it heavier.
For every pound of weight you can remove from the top of the mast is equal to adding 5.25 pounds to the bottom of the keel/center board. Think about all the weight that you can remove above the deck, making your boat lighter is always better than making it heavier.
Are you talking about a swing
keel or a centerboard. Adding 50 lbs to a 500 lbs swing keel should not be a problem but adding 50 lbs to a wood or foam fiberglass covered board may not be a good idea. You may modify the hull to have a fin keel installed in it ($$$) or reduce sail like Landsend suggested. I know the bothersome handling of a tender boat in gutsy winds but that is part of the inherited trade off in a trailer sailer. We sail full keel boats and also trailer a Starwind 223 with a short keel and centerboard combination. It is initially tender but as the angle of heel increases it starts stiffening up. Its a matter of getting used to that uneasy feeling in gutsy winds. In sustained 15-20 winds the boat will go just as fast under reffed main with less heel.
keel or a centerboard. Adding 50 lbs to a 500 lbs swing keel should not be a problem but adding 50 lbs to a wood or foam fiberglass covered board may not be a good idea. You may modify the hull to have a fin keel installed in it ($$$) or reduce sail like Landsend suggested. I know the bothersome handling of a tender boat in gutsy winds but that is part of the inherited trade off in a trailer sailer. We sail full keel boats and also trailer a Starwind 223 with a short keel and centerboard combination. It is initially tender but as the angle of heel increases it starts stiffening up. Its a matter of getting used to that uneasy feeling in gutsy winds. In sustained 15-20 winds the boat will go just as fast under reffed main with less heel.
Too Heavy how!
The boat is not short of weight; in fact I think it is too heavy. At least in the stern. I changed to a small motorcycle battery to get rid of some weight aft. Make adjustments to the sails to control the healing angle. Sail the boat as flat as possible to weather and let the keel work. This is very easy to adjust and you can sail the boat with little or no weather helm too. (Heeling angle increases weather helm) I fact you can tune the Hunter 22 to have lee helm. Place the jib car a little forward, traveler up and mail sheet eased. Increase tension on main halyard and outhaul. Sailing with 2 crew on the rail use a #1 jib (155%) and full main in winds up to 15. Reef the main in winds above 15 or go to a # 2 jib (135%) and full main, In winds 18 to 22 use the #3 (100% or 110%) jib and a reefed main In winds over 25 reef main and use a storm jib (70%). Leave the chute in the cabin in winds over 25 and large waves. Getting the crew to the stern in heave winds and waves will add to your control but it can get a little tricky. Let me know how to get rid of 200# of that hull lead then adding some weight to the keel tip would make sense. I think adding weight to the keel would add a lot of strain to the swing pin and the four little 1/4" bolts in those stainless angles. You would have to increase the mounting strength if you are going to add weight. Also, can you raise 50#’s more with the current system? Maybe. Let’s keep this subject open as it is something I have an interest in looking at. Has anyone tried it?
The boat is not short of weight; in fact I think it is too heavy. At least in the stern. I changed to a small motorcycle battery to get rid of some weight aft. Make adjustments to the sails to control the healing angle. Sail the boat as flat as possible to weather and let the keel work. This is very easy to adjust and you can sail the boat with little or no weather helm too. (Heeling angle increases weather helm) I fact you can tune the Hunter 22 to have lee helm. Place the jib car a little forward, traveler up and mail sheet eased. Increase tension on main halyard and outhaul. Sailing with 2 crew on the rail use a #1 jib (155%) and full main in winds up to 15. Reef the main in winds above 15 or go to a # 2 jib (135%) and full main, In winds 18 to 22 use the #3 (100% or 110%) jib and a reefed main In winds over 25 reef main and use a storm jib (70%). Leave the chute in the cabin in winds over 25 and large waves. Getting the crew to the stern in heave winds and waves will add to your control but it can get a little tricky. Let me know how to get rid of 200# of that hull lead then adding some weight to the keel tip would make sense. I think adding weight to the keel would add a lot of strain to the swing pin and the four little 1/4" bolts in those stainless angles. You would have to increase the mounting strength if you are going to add weight. Also, can you raise 50#’s more with the current system? Maybe. Let’s keep this subject open as it is something I have an interest in looking at. Has anyone tried it?
I have stiffened up the 22
I fill the water tank (8 pounds per gal, about 120 pounds of water). I added 200 pounds (100 each under the seats). I added 140 pounds under the V-berth to counter weight at the stern (is realy helps going to wind with main only. My boat is still tender but I can tell the differance and I'm happy with it. I sail in Ks with normal wind speeds of 15-25 MPH.
I fill the water tank (8 pounds per gal, about 120 pounds of water). I added 200 pounds (100 each under the seats). I added 140 pounds under the V-berth to counter weight at the stern (is realy helps going to wind with main only. My boat is still tender but I can tell the differance and I'm happy with it. I sail in Ks with normal wind speeds of 15-25 MPH.
Good Advice
Thanx for your comments. They are appreciated. I am full aware of the advantage to be gained by reducing the sail area, and certainly do so when the need arises. I would just prefer the boat to have a “heavier” feel to her, and so the thought about adding weight. I agree with John about the problems that could occur to the mounting system of the center board if more weight were added to the board. Since I have removed the board for a pin repair it is apparent that the four small bolts would have to be replaced and backed up if the board were heavier. (In fact I think it should be done anyway) I also have reservations about the raising and lowering system with fifty pounds added, but hope that in the water the ropes and pulleys could handle it. All of this was one of my own arguments against doing this from the beginning. In Jim’s reply he talks about adding weight inside the boat. I too fill the water tank, and have wondered about placing weight in the bow. Jim you mentioned about putting weight under the seats. These seats – are these the port and starboard berths inside the cabin? What did you use for the weight? GaryG
Thanx for your comments. They are appreciated. I am full aware of the advantage to be gained by reducing the sail area, and certainly do so when the need arises. I would just prefer the boat to have a “heavier” feel to her, and so the thought about adding weight. I agree with John about the problems that could occur to the mounting system of the center board if more weight were added to the board. Since I have removed the board for a pin repair it is apparent that the four small bolts would have to be replaced and backed up if the board were heavier. (In fact I think it should be done anyway) I also have reservations about the raising and lowering system with fifty pounds added, but hope that in the water the ropes and pulleys could handle it. All of this was one of my own arguments against doing this from the beginning. In Jim’s reply he talks about adding weight inside the boat. I too fill the water tank, and have wondered about placing weight in the bow. Jim you mentioned about putting weight under the seats. These seats – are these the port and starboard berths inside the cabin? What did you use for the weight? GaryG
Seat weights
Yes I'm refering to the port and starboard seats. I used lead bars that I got from a print shop that had old lead type presses. Each bar is about 25 pounds. I have a total of 8 bars. The weight I used in the bow is a combanation of lead bars, lead shot(shot gun type) and "free weights". The 22 is alwas going to be tinder unless you chang the keel. The cost of the change and resale value of a modifided boat makes this a bad idea.
Yes I'm refering to the port and starboard seats. I used lead bars that I got from a print shop that had old lead type presses. Each bar is about 25 pounds. I have a total of 8 bars. The weight I used in the bow is a combanation of lead bars, lead shot(shot gun type) and "free weights". The 22 is alwas going to be tinder unless you chang the keel. The cost of the change and resale value of a modifided boat makes this a bad idea.
adding weight
I hope no one takes this the wrong way . Years ago I belonged to a west wright Potter list . Often someone would start a thread about adding weight to the interior of the boat to stiffen it up a bit . One person submitted his solution of adding bricks to the area under his seat . Someone, most likely an older sailor pointed out the effect this would have on the boats bouancy in the event of a hole in the hull or a leak . It really seems to me like an unsafe plan . Again no offense intended , good luck Mike
I hope no one takes this the wrong way . Years ago I belonged to a west wright Potter list . Often someone would start a thread about adding weight to the interior of the boat to stiffen it up a bit . One person submitted his solution of adding bricks to the area under his seat . Someone, most likely an older sailor pointed out the effect this would have on the boats bouancy in the event of a hole in the hull or a leak . It really seems to me like an unsafe plan . Again no offense intended , good luck Mike
Thanx again
John you and I seem to have been thinking along the same lines. I too had thought that for a trial I could simply bolt some extra weight to the board tip, and had also thought of hollowing out some of the foam and putting in some weight. Adding the weight internally to the board tip would allow the shape to remain the same which would be an advantage to putting something on externally. I had not figured out a method of putting the weight inside, but your comments about lead shot and resin seem workable. Thanx to all of you for your thoughtful comments. garyg
John you and I seem to have been thinking along the same lines. I too had thought that for a trial I could simply bolt some extra weight to the board tip, and had also thought of hollowing out some of the foam and putting in some weight. Adding the weight internally to the board tip would allow the shape to remain the same which would be an advantage to putting something on externally. I had not figured out a method of putting the weight inside, but your comments about lead shot and resin seem workable. Thanx to all of you for your thoughtful comments. garyg
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