Stern Steel Beam
- Thread starter kair
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My Cherubini H36 doesn't have a steel beam that I have ever noticed.
But in the log book that a PO had left on the boat when I bought it, way back in about 1991, they totally lost all rudder function while cruising to Mexico. The incident apparently afforded a good reason to stay in Ensinada and drink tequilla for over a month while awaiting parts and repairs. So, maybe the area was rebuilt without a steel beam.
I'll be interested to learn more about the steel beam as others respond.
But in the log book that a PO had left on the boat when I bought it, way back in about 1991, they totally lost all rudder function while cruising to Mexico. The incident apparently afforded a good reason to stay in Ensinada and drink tequilla for over a month while awaiting parts and repairs. So, maybe the area was rebuilt without a steel beam.
I'll be interested to learn more about the steel beam as others respond.
Very easy to replace. Just unbolt it and get a replacement piece, and bolt it back in. If the original bolt holes are enlarged due to the rudder stops pounding against it, fill them, then redrill and add backing plates for strength. I replaced mine over 20 years ago with a piece of heavy aluminum angle and have had no trouble since.
Didn't think I had any steel on Trinity, have had my head and body stuck in that hold numerous times, will go in again and look and reply in a few days.
My rudder is bearing on the stern interior deck but can't envision what is holding that deck up at this time. Will return. Happy Sailing
My rudder is bearing on the stern interior deck but can't envision what is holding that deck up at this time. Will return. Happy Sailing
Is the H36 like our H37Cs? Older models like mine used a 2x4. Here's a picture of the steel version, an upgrade for this boat. Later models came standard with steel. I have had a piece of 4" angle in the garage for five years and still haven't replaced the 2x4.
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for what its worth, I did recheck my rudder support area and Trinity
has no steel or support other then inner deck itself for support.
A 3/4" plywood removable plate is fasten to the inner deck as
the main support. Been there since day one and my rudder system works fine. Different design ideas at different points of hull production. I guess ?
My hull is # 30
has no steel or support other then inner deck itself for support.
A 3/4" plywood removable plate is fasten to the inner deck as
the main support. Been there since day one and my rudder system works fine. Different design ideas at different points of hull production. I guess ?
My hull is # 30
Humm, that configuration is VERY different from what is on our H37c, I even wonder if it's original... Do you have a special autopilot on the boat ? there seems to be a angle sensor, and the cadran on top is geared... our boats use cables... If you are not familiar with working steel, I would simply take the whole thing out, take it to a machine shop and ask for the exact same thing, if you are lucky it won't be expensive... Then just repaint with epoxy (surface preparation is always the key when painting). If the old part lasted 20 some years, the new one should last as long, so no need to change to aluminium and redesign for ticker walls. As for removal, is no bolt go through the hull and you can lift te part enough to clear the rudder post, no need to haul out. If it doesn't clear the post, which I suspect, unless you are able to remove the raiser on the left, then you'll have to take the rudder out...
Sorry, I can't really help with solutions. But for what its worth, here's a picture of the rudder post area just under aft lazerette of my 1980 Cherubini Hunter 36. As I posted before, its probably not the original. But certainly no indication that a steel beam was ever there. My hull number is 36. Just under the deck is the quadrant which connects to the wheel/pedestal by SS wire. The deck which is in picture has no additional reinforcements, other than the deck itself.
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Rardi, I think Kair's pictures are from underneath that platform. Have you been under there? And do you have geared steering? Really surpised at that.
This forum is wonderful with all the salts and ideas, it's amazing.
OK. I don't think the steel beam will clear the rudder post. But it it does, what is holding the rudder if I loosen the rudder post? I don't want the rudder to slip out, I have about 15 feet depth at the marina. (I am not scuba certified to start diving for a rudder)
I have a cable steering that is underneath the cockpit. The PO is a very resourceful man and I don't doubt it is a mod. to the original to hold the auto pilot.
also, I need to get to the underside of the panel where the gas can are.
thanks guys....
OK. I don't think the steel beam will clear the rudder post. But it it does, what is holding the rudder if I loosen the rudder post? I don't want the rudder to slip out, I have about 15 feet depth at the marina. (I am not scuba certified to start diving for a rudder)
I have a cable steering that is underneath the cockpit. The PO is a very resourceful man and I don't doubt it is a mod. to the original to hold the auto pilot.
also, I need to get to the underside of the panel where the gas can are.
thanks guys....
Foam rudders
The rudders on these boats are made of foam and fiberglass with a steel skeleton welded to the rudder post. They are so buoyant they damn near float. In fact, one of the H37C owners removed his rudder while the boat was in the water without the rudder sinking. If you attach a rope - say a dock line - from one side of the boat, under the rudder, and back up to the other side of the boat, you don't need to worry about losing the rudder when you remove the bearing and the steel beam.
The rudders on these boats are made of foam and fiberglass with a steel skeleton welded to the rudder post. They are so buoyant they damn near float. In fact, one of the H37C owners removed his rudder while the boat was in the water without the rudder sinking. If you attach a rope - say a dock line - from one side of the boat, under the rudder, and back up to the other side of the boat, you don't need to worry about losing the rudder when you remove the bearing and the steel beam.
Hi Ed:
It appears to me that Kair lifted up his rear lazerette and took the picture ... so from the top rather than underneath.
Yes, I've been underneath quite a few times, first when I dismantled most everything to do with the steering so that I could repair the moisture saturated cockpit core around the pedestal. And more frequently to inspect, lubricate and adjust the quadrant cable tension. No steel beam. Seems that the intermediate deck is strong enough to brace the rudder post on its own. Glad I don't have to maintain plain steel. The location is a rust generator. The first time that I painted the rusty emergency tiller, it rusted through the paint again in just a couple of years.
Steve:
A couple of years ago, I asked the same question about the rudder sinking. I was told that the rudder isn't buoyant enough to stay afloat. The suggestion was to put a weight in the center of a rope so that the rope can sink. Then position the line so that it loops under the rudder. Then pull up and tie each end to a cleat, or toe rail, or anything near the stern to hold the rudder snuggly from falling down through the stern tube. If you do this, I would use two lines just to be safe. But also, in any case, the stern tube can't fall further than the quadrant.
As to getting to the area beneath the mid deck to where the quadrant is, it is possible if you've got long arms and are very flexible. But very difficult to actually do any work from that angle. That's an advantage of my setup. In my picture, I can remove screws holding the rectangle shaped panel to the deck. Then I remove the pin that goes through the aluminum collar. (But first make sure that the rudder is secured from dropping!) Then the panel can be raised up which gives more workable access to the quadrant area.
In your case, I'm sure you will be able to work your way through a solution. It looks like you will have to drop the rudder down at least several inches so there is enough clearance to lift the steel beam up and over the top of the rudder post. Is the autopilot mechanism still working? Looks a bit long in the tooth. It may interfere with access to the quadrant area.
Another material that you might want to consider as a replacement for the steel is IPE wood. Blaise cited heavy stock aluminum has passed the test of time and in his case a lot of heavy weather sailing. So you can't go wrong there. As for IPE, it's widely available for home decking. Rot resistant. Heavy. Very, very strong. Can be cut/shaped/drilled with standard wood working tools, so its DIY friendly. Better varieties are also known as iron wood and it was used in the day for airplane props. Its available in 6x3/4 and 6x1. I would think IPE would be plenty strong enough to support the upper bushing and maintain transverse stiffness to the area (Hey mere 3/4" plywood supports mine bushing.) But do get other opinions first.
A couple of years ago, I asked the same question about the rudder sinking. I was told that the rudder isn't buoyant enough to stay afloat. The suggestion was to put a weight in the center of a rope so that the rope can sink. Then position the line so that it loops under the rudder. Then pull up and tie each end to a cleat, or toe rail, or anything near the stern to hold the rudder snuggly from falling down through the stern tube. If you do this, I would use two lines just to be safe. But also, in any case, the stern tube can't fall further than the quadrant.
As to getting to the area beneath the mid deck to where the quadrant is, it is possible if you've got long arms and are very flexible. But very difficult to actually do any work from that angle. That's an advantage of my setup. In my picture, I can remove screws holding the rectangle shaped panel to the deck. Then I remove the pin that goes through the aluminum collar. (But first make sure that the rudder is secured from dropping!) Then the panel can be raised up which gives more workable access to the quadrant area.
In your case, I'm sure you will be able to work your way through a solution. It looks like you will have to drop the rudder down at least several inches so there is enough clearance to lift the steel beam up and over the top of the rudder post. Is the autopilot mechanism still working? Looks a bit long in the tooth. It may interfere with access to the quadrant area.
Another material that you might want to consider as a replacement for the steel is IPE wood. Blaise cited heavy stock aluminum has passed the test of time and in his case a lot of heavy weather sailing. So you can't go wrong there. As for IPE, it's widely available for home decking. Rot resistant. Heavy. Very, very strong. Can be cut/shaped/drilled with standard wood working tools, so its DIY friendly. Better varieties are also known as iron wood and it was used in the day for airplane props. Its available in 6x3/4 and 6x1. I would think IPE would be plenty strong enough to support the upper bushing and maintain transverse stiffness to the area (Hey mere 3/4" plywood supports mine bushing.) But do get other opinions first.
I have the steel beam on my 37C. It is rusty but I haven't done anything about it yet so don't know how it comes out. Seems to me to be some massive overkill for once!
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