Staysail

Feb 26, 2004
22,011
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
No. I've read of a C36 doing it. It's unnecessary. Use a smaller jib.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,499
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
How do you want to use it? It was common to see staysails flown with spinnakers on the masthead rigged boats of the 70's and 80's. I have one for my boat. It's made of lightweight 3.5 oz cloth and has a wire luff that can be tacked at various locations on the fore deck... It's called a "daisy" staysail... but is also known as a tall boy, tall staysail, etc. Very high aspect design.

As I said, it's purpose was to supplement the spinnaker.. but...I have flown it as a normal light air headsail after discovering the free flying luff, high aspect shape and lighter weight works well in conditions under 5 knots.

Here's one at work on a boat very different from mine.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,011
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Hello Stu, with the 130% part furled in 25kn or so the genoa trim is not good and the C/E is way forward.
Geoff
Geoff, Hi, I may have been confusing a staysail with an inner forestay. Joe cleared that up for me. Answer is still no. :D:D:D
 
Oct 10, 2009
28
Catalina 34 Ladysmith
How do you want to use it? It was common to see staysails flown with spinnakers on the masthead rigged boats of the 70's and 80's. I have one for my boat. It's made of lightweight 3.5 oz cloth and has a wire luff that can be tacked at various locations on the fore deck... It's called a "daisy" staysail... but is also known as a tall boy, tall staysail, etc. Very high aspect design.

As I said, it's purpose was to supplement the spinnaker.. but...I have flown it as a normal light air headsail after discovering the free flying luff, high aspect shape and lighter weight works well in conditions under 5 knots.

Here's one at work on a boat very different from mine.
Hello Joe, thanks, but, at about 25kn or so with the 130% part furled it does not trim well. Thinking of an inner forestay, with running backs and staysail. will trim well and move C/E back.
Geoff.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,499
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
If you have the resources... perhaps a solent rig is the way to go... Furlers on both stays, larger sail in front... smaller behind.. Popular with cruisers who like to sail downwind with double headsail. you can also rig an inner forestay for storm jib...

 
Jul 9, 2015
20
Catalina 34 Mk II Toronto
What about having the furling Genoa on the forestay with an inner stay with a smaller self-tacking jib? I was wondering about adding the inner stay and self tacking jib on my 34 Mk II. My reason being my wife has trouble cranking the Genny in when close hauled and more than 10 knots of wind...thought the self-tacking might suit me for beating up wind with lots of tacking and the Genny for either long tacks or reaching/running. would this make sense on a 34?
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,011
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
My reason being my wife has trouble cranking the Genny in when close hauled and more than 10 knots of wind...
You should man the winches and let her steer. :)

thought the self-tacking might suit me for beating up wind with lots of tacking and the Genny for either long tacks or reaching/running. would this make sense on a 34?
No. Self-tacking to me means having gear on the foredeck that allows the jib to tack without using winches, different than staysails if I understand them correctly (i.e., no hanks on the luff). The ONLY boats we've seen with self-tacking gear are from the California Delta, where the slough's are very narrow and that gear can be helpful for the full jib on the original forestay, and self-tackers are limited to about 90% or they don't work - think about it, the clew can't go aft of the mast. One of those C34s moved from the Delta to down to The Bay and immediately removed it. The gear also is lousy for reaching - it keeps the clew down low. And even putting a jib on an inner forestay won't get you much, 'cuz the sail has to be smaller, right?

Goes back to my original suggestion of just getting a smaller jib.

You also need to consider how one would anchor the base of any new forestay. It'd put a big hole in your V berth!!!:eek:

You might be interested in this:

A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362

Please read all three pages. Enjoy.

In my 17 years of ownership, having read all of the Mainsheet magazines since the C34 appeared in them from 1987 and being active on our C34 forum, it just hasn't happened as far as I know. You could ask there, too, 'cuz that's where most active C34 folks do contribute.
 
Jul 9, 2015
20
Catalina 34 Mk II Toronto
Stu - thanks. My neighbour at my club has a Tartan 3400 with a self-tacking jib inside the Genny, but as you say, the clew is short of the mast so not a lot of sail area. My first choice would be to have her take the wheel but she is not yet confortable on the wheel in heavy weather. I have tried partially furling the jib but sail shape suffers. Maybe the answer is just a smaller jib. anyway - thanks for the reference...I will read all 3 pages as you suggest.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
What about having the furling Genoa on the forestay with an inner stay with a smaller self-tacking jib? I was wondering about adding the inner stay and self tacking jib on my 34 Mk II. My reason being my wife has trouble cranking the Genny in when close hauled and more than 10 knots of wind...thought the self-tacking might suit me for beating up wind with lots of tacking and the Genny for either long tacks or reaching/running. would this make sense on a 34?
Be cheaper and easier to get bigger winch, or longer winch handle. I had an aluminum winch handle cut and welded to 15" long 25% more power. I ultimately went from lewmar '40 s to 54's. No trouble getting the last few inches in.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,499
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
What about having the furling Genoa on the forestay with an inner stay with a smaller self-tacking jib? I was wondering about adding the inner stay and self tacking jib on my 34 Mk II. My reason being my wife has trouble cranking the Genny in when close hauled and more than 10 knots of wind...thought the self-tacking might suit me for beating up wind with lots of tacking and the Genny for either long tacks or reaching/running. would this make sense on a 34?
Geoff... you might try reversing crew positions, as Stu mentioned, let your wife steer and you work the sails.... I do that all the time on my boat. Steering is one of the easiest jobs if you understand tell tales.

You can also get a longer winch handle, a larger set of winches, or even electric winches.... but.... if you insist on driving and making her do all the work... at least give her a break and head up to take the pressure off the sail so she can winch it in easily, instead of asking her to wind in the fully loaded sail... that's just not fair...

Another thing you can do is lock the wheel on the new tack and give her a little help.... or... instead of loading up the winch and using the handle to crank in every inch of sheet.... just put on a few wraps and hand strip the slack out of the line, feather the sail for a few seconds to get every thing in.. then load the winch and crank in the last foot or so...

As a driver... especially when sailing short handed... it is your job to make the crew's task as easy as you can... if your wife is killing herself to get the sail in, that means you're not helping her enough.. I hope I haven't hurt your feelings here.. but trust me when I tell you that this advice is coming from my own similar experience.
 
Jul 9, 2015
20
Catalina 34 Mk II Toronto
believe me - having her take the wheel is my preference - she just doesn't want to. so what I have been doing is using my autohelm's autotack feature and grinding the winch myself (basically single-handing) - not my preference. I've already got a 48 winch on and a good 10' double handed winch handle...again - this is only in heavy winds...less than 10 knots or with other crew to help we're fine. just thought a smaller second jib might be the way to go - its only the 135 genoa at the moment.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,011
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Joe's right and I practice those techniques when singlehanding. I try not to make any more work for myself than I have to! :):):)

Wives & high winds take some time to learn to appreciate one another. :) What works for me here in high winds, and believe me, we get lots of 'em, is to get the boat in the groove and show her how easy it is. Good sail trim is essential. I keep a reef in the main, two if you must, 'cuz the driver on your boat is the jib. Our racers here are running their 130s in high winds, my max is our 110. Sailing on just the jib takes some pucker factor out, too. For us, winds over 10 are a gentle breeze. Good luck. Time will tell, but look at it this way: You're on the boat, what could be better? :)
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
If you are not racing,
If you cannot change the job rotation,

Take off the 135% and install a self-tacking jib on at track. Set once and you're done for perhaps hours.


While they work better on fractional boats, and you take a slight performance hit, a self-tacker makes life much easier. And that's the goal, right??
 
Apr 11, 2012
324
Cataina 400 MK II Santa Cruz
Good advice above. Stu often advocates using a smaller jib in the summer (windy) season. It makes it a lot easier to handle. I use my 130 and just accept the loss of shape when I furle. Putting on a self-tacker takes quite a hit on performance, and you're still basically single handing, so it doesn't make much sense to me. My personal answer is to just do the jib myself when my wife dosen't want to. It's really easy even in high wind. Sometimes she takes the wheel, sometimes not. In my future I'm going to get electric winches for the jib. My brother hs them on his boat and the convenience is amazing. Yes, they are expensive, and kind of "unnaturlal" but what the heck. Got to get some big bucks together first.
 
Jul 9, 2015
20
Catalina 34 Mk II Toronto
Hi Scotty - I am aware of electric winches but am concerned with the amount of draw on the battery if I get one big enough to pull in my Genny. Ultimately, I am hoping my wife gets more comfortable on the wheel in big seas...that is the cheapest solution of all.