I'm not considering this but has anybody ever put on a stay sail on a H33? Could you do it and would it be functional??? I was wondering about a removable stay to make a H33 a temporary cutter rig. Probably a way out crazy thought but, hey, why not?
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Sam Lust
Me Too
I have given serious consideration to adding an inner stay to my 33. I have a hunch it might balance out the sail plan in light to moderate air and would act to increase sail area without having to carry a big genoa, which I'm not really fond of. Jim Bohart, formerly of Hunter claimed the fore deck was capable of withstanding the load. I figure on attaching the inner stay about 2 to 3 feet down from the top of the mast to avoid the need for running stays and tacking the lower end down at the point where the deck rises at the beginning of the cabin coachroof. My thinking here is to tie in to the toe rails as well as the deck for added strength. I'm also thinking of moving the head stay's mount point forward 2 feet to the end of my anchor platform, with the addition of the requisite bobstay to form a cutter rig. Bohart indicated that the 33 responded well to this. This might just be a pipe dream, but who knows, I just might get inspired and do it!
I have given serious consideration to adding an inner stay to my 33. I have a hunch it might balance out the sail plan in light to moderate air and would act to increase sail area without having to carry a big genoa, which I'm not really fond of. Jim Bohart, formerly of Hunter claimed the fore deck was capable of withstanding the load. I figure on attaching the inner stay about 2 to 3 feet down from the top of the mast to avoid the need for running stays and tacking the lower end down at the point where the deck rises at the beginning of the cabin coachroof. My thinking here is to tie in to the toe rails as well as the deck for added strength. I'm also thinking of moving the head stay's mount point forward 2 feet to the end of my anchor platform, with the addition of the requisite bobstay to form a cutter rig. Bohart indicated that the 33 responded well to this. This might just be a pipe dream, but who knows, I just might get inspired and do it!
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Ed Schenck
A cheaper solution. . .
is to buy an H37C. Just kidding. But since my H37C has an inner stay I thought I would mention that it is deck-mounted on the aft end of the anchor well. This would seem to put it very close to the headstay but if you look at any cutter rig they all look too close together. From the pictures on the Cherubini web-site it looks like a mounting on the forward trunk would be too close to the mast making for a very small staysail. (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=204587#a=1888331, that '#' sign has to be changed to a real ampersand.) Whichever, a reefed staysail makes a great stormsail.
is to buy an H37C. Just kidding. But since my H37C has an inner stay I thought I would mention that it is deck-mounted on the aft end of the anchor well. This would seem to put it very close to the headstay but if you look at any cutter rig they all look too close together. From the pictures on the Cherubini web-site it looks like a mounting on the forward trunk would be too close to the mast making for a very small staysail. (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=204587#a=1888331, that '#' sign has to be changed to a real ampersand.) Whichever, a reefed staysail makes a great stormsail.
Inner jibstay on H-33?
You'll pardon me for once again being arrogant but I have to ask WHY you want to add an inner forestay to the H-33. The great danger in it is that you will now put a new moment on the mast (and in a very bad place to do it) by tightening this thing which would necessitate the addition of at least running backstays and deck fittings and definitely a whole retuning if not redesign of the rig. Your best bet is to acquire some kind of inner 'blooper' sail, not fitted to any fixed stay, which stands inside the forestay and can be halued up with the spinnaker halyard or even the pole lift. Mount a padeye on the deck about 3-4 ft back and make sure you reinforce it with extra 'glass and a LARGE backing plate below. (Hunter is not known for very rugged 'glass work and balsa core will not hold squat.) Set the sail in light air and take it down to tack. You will probably also have to hold the helm pretty high up on the wind too because it WILL have an effect. A cutter at 33 ft is about the limit for double headsails. Any attempt to make a formal cutter rig on a modern-style (i.e., no bowsprit) boat of this size will result in two very finicky little sails and a whole lot of work to turn, tack, and get the slots right. The best idea is to have and use a variety of headsails and, depending on how intense you get, a selection of lead-block positions both fore-and-aft and in-and-outboard. Consider also using a double-headsail foil on your roller-furler and setting double jibs wing-and-wing for downwind (although it can be gnarly!). Experimentation is key– but all arrogance aside, I strongly caution you not to critique the designed rig too harshly without a full knowledge of sail and sailboat principles. Remember the guy who designed your boat was an engineering prodigy, an aerospace designer, and a consummate sailboat racer who fully comprehended sailing physics like few people ever did. He never tolerated trashy performance if he could help it. Do EMail with any more questions. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet @aol.com
You'll pardon me for once again being arrogant but I have to ask WHY you want to add an inner forestay to the H-33. The great danger in it is that you will now put a new moment on the mast (and in a very bad place to do it) by tightening this thing which would necessitate the addition of at least running backstays and deck fittings and definitely a whole retuning if not redesign of the rig. Your best bet is to acquire some kind of inner 'blooper' sail, not fitted to any fixed stay, which stands inside the forestay and can be halued up with the spinnaker halyard or even the pole lift. Mount a padeye on the deck about 3-4 ft back and make sure you reinforce it with extra 'glass and a LARGE backing plate below. (Hunter is not known for very rugged 'glass work and balsa core will not hold squat.) Set the sail in light air and take it down to tack. You will probably also have to hold the helm pretty high up on the wind too because it WILL have an effect. A cutter at 33 ft is about the limit for double headsails. Any attempt to make a formal cutter rig on a modern-style (i.e., no bowsprit) boat of this size will result in two very finicky little sails and a whole lot of work to turn, tack, and get the slots right. The best idea is to have and use a variety of headsails and, depending on how intense you get, a selection of lead-block positions both fore-and-aft and in-and-outboard. Consider also using a double-headsail foil on your roller-furler and setting double jibs wing-and-wing for downwind (although it can be gnarly!). Experimentation is key– but all arrogance aside, I strongly caution you not to critique the designed rig too harshly without a full knowledge of sail and sailboat principles. Remember the guy who designed your boat was an engineering prodigy, an aerospace designer, and a consummate sailboat racer who fully comprehended sailing physics like few people ever did. He never tolerated trashy performance if he could help it. Do EMail with any more questions. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet @aol.com
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Ed Schenck
Is this great or what!?
Having John II on board I mean. My fellow Cherubini owners are getting the straight skinny. John, thanks for the H54 update. And we saw your boat at Annapolis, beautiful!
Having John II on board I mean. My fellow Cherubini owners are getting the straight skinny. John, thanks for the H54 update. And we saw your boat at Annapolis, beautiful!
Ed's comment
Re: Ed's comment Hey, thanks for the encouragement, Ed. It's been along time since I was a 'whippersnapper' looking at everything upside-down from the other edge of the drawing board and it's nice to think what I say still has some value to people. I often think I seem arrogant to others but I sort of grew up with this stuff and byt the time was 16 or 17 I was doing design work myself (i.e., interiors of the 25 and 30). I honestly mean it when I say the most pleasure I get out of stating my mind in here is when it's helpful to someone else in a real way. If that sounds too much like there's a halo over my head then remember what my name is! [laugh] JC
Re: Ed's comment Hey, thanks for the encouragement, Ed. It's been along time since I was a 'whippersnapper' looking at everything upside-down from the other edge of the drawing board and it's nice to think what I say still has some value to people. I often think I seem arrogant to others but I sort of grew up with this stuff and byt the time was 16 or 17 I was doing design work myself (i.e., interiors of the 25 and 30). I honestly mean it when I say the most pleasure I get out of stating my mind in here is when it's helpful to someone else in a real way. If that sounds too much like there's a halo over my head then remember what my name is! [laugh] JC
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mr. scott
good to hear reality
Thanks for your response john, you shed some (in my cast anyway) much needed light on design. I do not claim to be any type of yacht designer, I'm just a sailor with an occasional imagination. I'm glad you feel strongly about speaking your mind on these forums, all of us have an opinion but not all of us know the facts involved in yachts and their designs. I appreciate you explaining why an inner stay on the H33 is no good, guess I'll let my imagination run wild on the keel and rudder now...
Thanks for your response john, you shed some (in my cast anyway) much needed light on design. I do not claim to be any type of yacht designer, I'm just a sailor with an occasional imagination. I'm glad you feel strongly about speaking your mind on these forums, all of us have an opinion but not all of us know the facts involved in yachts and their designs. I appreciate you explaining why an inner stay on the H33 is no good, guess I'll let my imagination run wild on the keel and rudder now...
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Tom M.
Yes, but you don't want a cutter, a SCUTTER
I put on inner forestay,, with a quick release pelican hook,two intermediate standing shrouds, tracks , cars w/ spring loaded blocks on the cabin top, and run the sheets aft to cockpit, the secret is the deck mount, I have a steel "C" extrusion, contoured ro the deck, that spans the entire deck 36", 1/4" thk, the deck plate is a 3/8" U bolt, under the deck, are 2 couplings and another inverted U bolt a marine eye, the a open turnbuckle and 5/16" dia. 1-19 wire a swaged studm go's into the foot of the v berth, and under that another piece of "C" extrusion, I also replaced the single split backstay with a dbl 3/16" 1-19, I have a total of 12 3/16" dia. wire standing rig., I could lift my boat easily from the top of the mast.
I put on inner forestay,, with a quick release pelican hook,two intermediate standing shrouds, tracks , cars w/ spring loaded blocks on the cabin top, and run the sheets aft to cockpit, the secret is the deck mount, I have a steel "C" extrusion, contoured ro the deck, that spans the entire deck 36", 1/4" thk, the deck plate is a 3/8" U bolt, under the deck, are 2 couplings and another inverted U bolt a marine eye, the a open turnbuckle and 5/16" dia. 1-19 wire a swaged studm go's into the foot of the v berth, and under that another piece of "C" extrusion, I also replaced the single split backstay with a dbl 3/16" 1-19, I have a total of 12 3/16" dia. wire standing rig., I could lift my boat easily from the top of the mast.
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Tom M.
To J. Cheribini, junior
Your father, like a very few boat designers, seen the potential in his designs, potential to be more, I have a 27 footer he designed and viewing other boats in her size, Your father has given us so much more, and it's like this in everything He put his hand to, even the Boeing line of airplanes, such as the 777, which I too help design. Adding a cutter rig, or what I perfer is a removable inner forestay, a Scutter rig, is not dificult. and gives me the versatility of head sails, from a full 180 Genny,on roller furl, or a working or storm jib on the inner stay. for close work, or reefing needs, mostboats have roller furling geat and with a large genny, that is not effective rolled half way, a scutter rig is making more sence these days.
Your father, like a very few boat designers, seen the potential in his designs, potential to be more, I have a 27 footer he designed and viewing other boats in her size, Your father has given us so much more, and it's like this in everything He put his hand to, even the Boeing line of airplanes, such as the 777, which I too help design. Adding a cutter rig, or what I perfer is a removable inner forestay, a Scutter rig, is not dificult. and gives me the versatility of head sails, from a full 180 Genny,on roller furl, or a working or storm jib on the inner stay. for close work, or reefing needs, mostboats have roller furling geat and with a large genny, that is not effective rolled half way, a scutter rig is making more sence these days.
'SCUTTER'
How does it point? –with or without the inner stay and sail? Ever sail it with the stay up and not the inner jib set? Just curious. JC
How does it point? –with or without the inner stay and sail? Ever sail it with the stay up and not the inner jib set? Just curious. JC
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Tom M.
John
With a 110% genny, she doesn't point well, with the head sail rolled up, and the inner forestay, flying a working jib, of 100 sr. ft. of rag, and the sheets and sail inboard of the shrouds, she points well.
With a 110% genny, she doesn't point well, with the head sail rolled up, and the inner forestay, flying a working jib, of 100 sr. ft. of rag, and the sheets and sail inboard of the shrouds, she points well.
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