Starter Overhaul

[Roger Long]

I've been thinking about possible sources for DC leakage into my ground system and the starter seems like a prime suspect. There's a great big red cable going directly from the batter down into and almost impossible to access component with carbon brushes inside and oil seals. Add in salt and dirt and it seems like there are all sorts of ways the small distances from the (+) to the (-) could be bridged.

Aside from electrical leakage, I doubt this starter has been removed or looked at since 1980.

Is this one of those things where just taking it apart and cleaning everything up with the engine manual (which describes all the tests) handy is likely to lead to a good result or should I consider taking it to a professional?

 

[Bill Roosa]

That depends Roger. I guess my first observation is why do you think you need to do it in the first place followed closely by you know you can check that without taking it apart right?
The starter does not have any voltage supplied to it except when the motor is running or there is a major malfunction of some kind. The solenoid prevents that from happening so if the starter works OK don't try and fix it. Any stray leakage will be microscopic compared to the run current.
The solenoid on the other hand can probably be suspected of having leakage even when new so you do want to check it and keep it clean.
You can test for current leakage by disconnecting the cable to the + battery terminal and the “S” terminal. Then connect your ammeter across the cable and solenoid connection. It should show 0.00 amps on the lowest setting. If you get some small <1 value then clean the outside and recheck. Repeat the same with the “s” terminal.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Bill is right of course. But for peace of mind an automotive electric shop really doesn't cost very much.

 

[Roger Long]

s why do you think you need to do it in the first place ...?

When I was flying, there was required maintenance on the starter every 50 hours. Seems kind of strange to think that this thing has been down there in a harsher environment for over 30 years and no one's looked at it.

 

[Johnb]

Aye to what Bill says. If you have a 100 ampere hour battery which loses 1% of its capacity each day just by sitting there, that is equivalent to a drain of about 41 milliamps (mA), so leakage which is a small fraction of that is insignificant (at least from a battery drain point of view).

So lets say you want to detect and prevent stray current of 4 mA or more. That is easy with an ammeter. Switch everything off, disconnect the positive lead at the battery and insert the ammeter between the positive on the battery and the wire that would normally be connected to it, starting with the highest range you have on the ammeter. Hopefully the drain will be very small. Then switch on circuits, but not appliances (e.g. cabin lights breaker on with all cabin lights switched off) and see how each in turn affects the current (ammeter) reading. This should show up all the "leaks" in the wiring.

To prevent damage to the meter always switch to a high range e.g. 10 amps before switching on each circuit and be careful not to for example push the starter button with the ammeter in there.

This can be used to show up other problems. Say for example a mast head light had some bad insulation that was causing galvanic corrosion in the mast. You could remove the bulb (so easy to say) then switch the light on and see how much current flows. It should be zero if the wires and fitting are in good condition.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Roger, if you are concerned about a small amount of leakage current, connecting a DC milliampmeter shold detect if you have any leakage through the solenoid circuit. As soon as you engage the starter, any leakage is insignificant. If you are concerned with leakage that is promoting metal corrosion, then this is a test you would want to do. Johnb has the correct technique for this test.

If you are just curious and feeling guilty for having never serviced your starter, I generally subscribe to the philosophy of "If it's not broke, don't fix it".

I applaud you that you have completed all of your projects for your upcoming cruise and you are now down to chasing a couple milliamps of current. I wish my project list was in as good of shape as yours!

 

[bria46]

Take it out and have the starter professionally rebuilt.

 

[Roger Long]

I applaud you that you have completed all of your projects for your upcoming cruise and you are now down to chasing a couple milliamps of current.

Yes, just a couple millamps plus:

Finish polish and re-install upper shroud chainplates.
Reinforce hull tabbing on starboard side.
Re-install hull ceiling panels removed for chainplates.
Figure out how all the teak trim strips go back on and reinstall.
Install new holding tank and build tank retainer framework.
Connect holding tank level gauge.
Connect holding tank hoses.
Install holding tank manual pump.
Finish polish and install new shroud tangs and install.
Install new batteries.
Install new battery cables.
Re-cable tie all engine room wiring
Re-install battery box cover and hold down straps.
Re-install GPS antenna
Remove galley ceiling panels to re-bed and tighten lifeline stanchion, reinstall panels.
Remove and reinstall starter after inspection and reconditioning.
Clean engine.
Install new gaskets on engine cooling system cover plates.
Replace engine zincs.
Drain engine fuel piping and install new Banjo washers.
Install new engine zincs.
Install new engine thermostat.
Install new engine exhaust hose.
Clean and re-mount alternator to correct belt alignment.
Replace RW pump impeller.
Finish wiring battery monitor.
Overhaul head.
Check engine alignment and coupling.
Adjust stuffing box.
Install engine filters and bleed fuel system.
Splice and install new lazy jacks.
Build new servo oar for wind vane (going to see if a slightly larger one improves light air function)
Re-paint green sheer stripe.
Clean and wax hull.
Install prop.
Install shaft zincs.
Re-do all bright work.
Install new lifeline lanyards
Repair fiberglass patch on rudder
Paint cabin and cockpit non non-skid surfaces.
Re-install electric autopilot
Overhaul dinghy.
Modify stock oars and install leathers.
Clean interior
Oil teak cabin sole
Move cushions and other equipment from storage to boat
Paint bottom
Sell jackstand set
Disinfect potable water system
Flush antifreeze out of FW system
Pick up sails from sailmaker
Re-rig after mast stepping

 

[Rich Stidger]

Thanks, Roger, I feel much better now. I see that your list is as long as mine. Misery truly loves company.....

 

[Bill Roosa]

Hey Roger, on airplains you can't get out and repair the starter while in flight in almost all cases so there is some heightened interest in having it checked to make sure that when you need it it will work.
Not so much of a problem on a boat where you can throw out the anchor and take your time.

 

[Maine Sail]

Roger,

Just drop it off with Mike at Kaza Auto Electric. He's a hoot, and his shop is the messiest you'll ever see, but he does great work fairly reasonably. It's not even worth my time to do alt or starter rebuilds anymore for what Mike charges me, plus he can find the parts I can't..

Mike @ Kaza
(207) 797-6658
64 Allen Ave.
Portland

P.S. Your cables will be done today..

 

[DanM]

Roger,

FWIW your Victron battery monitor will soon be sharing this information with you correct? When I first installed mine I spent a few minutes trying to figure out why I had a few milliamp current draw and then remembered that I have a small "hot bus" for a few items, one of which is the stereo memory. Showed right up on the Victron monitor.

Good luck! DanM.

 

[Roger Long]

When I first installed mine I spent a few minutes trying to figure out why I had a few milliamp current draw and then remembered that I have a small "hot bus" for a few items, one of which is the stereo memory.

According to Maine Sail, the Victron is so sensitive that it's wires acting as antennas will convert RF into enough current to show up. There is a setting that lets you set a threashold voltage under which everything will be displayed as zero. You're right though. Being able to spot small ground leaks is another benefit of these units.

Oh yes, the manual mentions a buzzer separately from the relay so that black thing on the back must be an alarm buzzer. I'm going to set the red LED (I wish now I'd bought orange) at 80% SOC and the buzzer at 50%.

 

[Bob S]

Roger,
with a list like that you may never leave . I'm feeling a little overwhelmed myself. Every year I plan on being launched before Memorial Day weekend and have yet to make it :cry:.
Good luck, I think your list keeps growing.