stability

Ray T · Jul 20, 2009

I have had a couple of knockdowns where the sails were in the water. The boat righted itself both times. I don't think you have to worry unless your boat goes past 90%, at this point the swing keel might swing up into the trunk further reducing stability. Not a pleasent thought. I wish there was some way to secure the keel in the down position. When you get into waves the keel swings fore and aft and bangs the front of the trunk. Since the keel wieghs 500lbs it doesent seem too cool. If the keel could be secured in the down position it would add to the ultimate stability of the boat.

Happy Ridgefield · Jul 21, 2009

huntercando said:
I am a relative newbie to sailing. Started 6 years ago with a 16 foot Tanzer and learned a lot by trial and error. My Sailing For Dummies book is all dog eared.
I have had a Hunter 216 for 4 years. I only sail on Lake Winnipesaukee in NH. The winds are forever changing in direction and velocity. I have had the 216 tipped as much as 40 degrees but for a very short duration of time. Two questions.
Has anyone capsized a 216?
How difficult was it to get it upright again?
What angle of heeling can the boat safely handle?
In case you haven't noticed I am timid about sailing excessively heeled over but feel I won't progress further until I am comfortable sailing at 40 plus degrees.
Thoughts, idea, past experiences and guide lines much appreciated.
Huntercando

My experience is the same as yours...and it is encouraging to see others have gone to 90-degrees and it self-righted but for the life of me I can't understand why you want to sail heeled over at all? If it is heeling that much (40-degrees) wouldn't you want to reef in on the sail? Better yet, sail a little bit more off the wind and spill it...I look forward to other replies to this...

Happy Ridgefield

cephius (Dave) · Jul 22, 2009

It is very difficult to reef my boat underway in the conditions that require it. If I didn't put a reef in while in the slip, then I use various sail trim techniques to de-power the rig and keep my boat under 30° heel.

That's Now. When I was younger I always pushed the enevlope and heeled until the toe rail (or my sleeping wife's arm) got washed!

Paul Wash · Jul 22, 2009

1. For the keel swing issue. I've had my centerboard cable replaced b/c it pulled through the lead a few years ago. Since then to avoid the excessive swinging, I actually let it all the way down and then crank back 2 or 3 times to tighten the cable. It helps ensure it will not jump the track as well as provide a little more stability in waves.

2. To reduce heeling, you can raise your centerboard half way and that should help if it makes you uncomfortable. I sometimes do this on downwind courses.

3. Especially on close haul, watch for gusts and do not cleat the main sheet to ensure you can spill wind from the sails quickly. Obvioulsy, don't let go of the sheet. Used in combination with a looser vang adjustment and it will automatically spill b/c the top of the sail will twist. There is a thread regarding vangs on the 216 around here and there is some explanation around sail shape.

4. Synchronize your crew if you have any to ensure they are as far out as possible. Someone with good balance standing near the shrouds seems to help. The 216 ballast although in the keel for stability is mostly controlled by crew.

5. There is a shape with the hull and water balance that is optimal for best performance. I believe that is about 20 degrees heel - more than that and it is actually detrimental to performance. Can't recall who or where I read or heard this. I've pushed it further and controlled it constantly trimming the main and small rudder adjustments and properly balanced crew. I eeked out about ~8.3 mph max once...

6. I would be less concerned about flipping her and righting vs. the fact that you'll dump your crew off at that angle. I'm pretty confident she would always right herself. Even with the centerboard over your head, I suspect she would fall back over.

7. Most of my heeling excess has been cut short by rounding up where the hull/keel/water action is overcome by physics. This is when the main overpowers the forces at work. Most commonly on a reach or further and the main is sheeted to far in, although I had this happen on some intense close hauls.

8. I've only thought once that I may lose it when on a close reach with my spinnaker and it was ~15kts or so. I just eased the main and the spin sheets and it slapped back down. Turning downwind also alleviates the heel in this situation as does cranking the centerboard up some.

9. Flatten your main by tightening the outhaul and ensuring your topping lift is loose (but cleated so you don't drop the boom when lowering the sails). A flatter main holds less air, hence less heeling power.

10. Reef - yes. I actually never reef mainly b/c I don't usually go out > 15kts. I'm more concerned about getting swamped by large waves and chop than the wind.

Clark · Jul 22, 2009

Paul, I hope you simply misspoke on #2. Raising the keel makes heeling WORSE since you reduce the boats righting moment.

Paul Wash · Jul 22, 2009

Point #2 is worth clarifying...

Because the 216 is a hybrid centerboard/ballasted design, raising the keel halfway does reduce the heeling force. However, not in the way you would think. Raising the keel 1/2 way actually diminishes your ability to sail close the wind. Which as a result reduces the heeling forces involved. Because the load of the keel is still centerline within the trunk, your ballast and a good amount of your centerboard area will still be present as not to cause great changes to the stability of the vessel.

So we experimented with this on a calm day with about 10kts of wind in a protected river...We sailed with full sails and attempted to sail a close haul to a close reach.

With the centerboard up. The boat sails with a crab-wise motion forward as she attempts to point but can't quite do it. It definitely feels "off" and its not practical since we are having trouble maintaining course on this point of sail.

Lowering the board 1/2 way results in the increased ability to sail closer to the wind and better pointing capability without the excessive heeling. Still we aren't able to get as close as normal, but the keel has provided enough stability to point and maintain a solid course. I would recommend this course for those who want to reduce the heeling force.

Finally, with the keel down, she bites in and the forces at work really take hold and she heels nicely and sails right up against the wind.

Downwind the dynamcis change as the keel is providing little to no countering force.

Hope this help clarify everything...

bloomac · Jul 25, 2009

Found this great website that shows the theoretical performance numbers for the H216. Capsize ratio seems pretty darn high. I would say the boat is pretty tender in general. Makes it a lot of fun, but wife and baby aren't big fans of it. I think the large cockpit makes you feel like it is a bigger boat than it really is.

I second the fact that reefing takes a little effort. Hard to do single handed under power. I end up doing it at the dock before I leave.

Check out this site to see how it compares to other boats. Interesting comparison to other performance boats like J's and Melges's.

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

boatName=Hunter 216
LOA=21.5
LWL=18.75
beam=7.917
displacement=1350
sailArea=252
displacementToLWL=91
speed=5.8
sailAreaToDisplacement=33.01
LWLToBeam=2.37
motionComfort=6.72
capsizeRatio=2.87
category=racer
ppi=530
description=
Click on one of the derived quantities for an explanation here.

troutsmoustang · Jul 26, 2009

moved up 1 month ago to the 216. So far this has been a great boat. What does that capsize ratio of 2.87 mean?