ST50 depth transducer

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SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
Last year transducer was reading correct depth, this year I accidentally painted over the transducer with VC17, launched the boat and realized later my mistake after I saw the depth reading a flashing 0.0, I had a diver remove the coat of paint and according to his judgment all the paint was removed...but still the flashing 0.0. Does anyone has an idea what is the problem ? The display unit seems to be working. Does anyone has an spare or removed working transducer that want to part with? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Gene :doh:
 
May 24, 2004
470
Hunter 33.5 Portsmouth, RI
Gene, My guess is that he didn't remove all the paint. Perhaps a little 'wet' sanding with 100 paper (wet/dry sand paper) will remove enough to get you back in business. Dick
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Raymarine ST50 - Designed to Leak?

Gene,
VC 17 is a very thin antifouling and I would not expect a single coat to have any effect on the transducer performance. Indeed I always give my xducer a single coat of whatever I am using with no affect on performance at all - (if it can shoot through a hull then what is a thin layer of paint - unless it softens the plastic surface).
My recent experience is that it is difficult to discover whether the problem is the xducer or the instrument. Having a spare xducer to try is the best check.
The xducer ST60 is compatible with the ST50 Instrument and still available, either from Raymarine or Airmar who are the manufacturer. Even another make will probably do if on approx the same frequency.



My ST50 failed over the winter and I was lucky I had a spare xducer to dangle over the side of the boat and so verified it was the instrument at fault. (My xducer was from an old Raytheon sounder they supplied to an Americas Cup defender some 35 years ago when I worked there.)
I opened the instrument and discovered a 'high tide line' about 1/2" up from the bottom of the printed circuit board. Clearly the case had leaked and the components at the bottom of the PCB were corroded away.
Upon examination I noted that the sexy red rubber seal went around the outside of the case but the four screws which held front to back were INSIDE this perimeter seal. Thus any water dribbling down the gap between bulkhead and instrument could leak in down these 4 screws. Then again the four rubber push buttons are only a light 'push in' fit and can also leak.

ST50 Instruments are like hens teeth to get hold of these days so I went to an 'Aladdins Cave' locally. They provided a used instrument head. It didn't work so I opened it up - same tide mark at same height. The water would fill the casing but it leaks OUT through the two lower case fixing holes described above so the level only reaches 1/2".
I took the second unit back and they found me a third. This worked but, out of insatiable curiosity, I opened it up and, sure enough, a similar tide mark. I guess the difference being the instrument was not running when the flood came so the corrosion was much less.

Three leaking instruments - can't be just a coincidence!


So, then I put four small squares of PVC tape, one over each of the case fixing screws and finished off with a turn of black tape right round the whole casing covering the aforementioned sexy red seal.
To protect against water ingress in the future I drilled two 2.5mm drain holes, one in each lower edge of the case right at the outer corners (1/8" dia. would do). There is a small part of the moulding just there so, with care, the drill only penetrates enough to go through the case and stops against this post and does not damage the PCB. The casing already has a breather hole in the back of the round projection at the rear so I don't feel my holes are making anything worse.

It should be noted that ALL ST50 instruments use this case and are similarly at risk.
Next time I go to the boat I shall drill weep holes in all the other cases - no need to open them up - and put a turn of tape round each.
See photos below:-



BTW:- Years back, after a very rainy day at sea, my ST50 Log was seen to be full with water swilling half way up the LCD display. On arrival we opened the unit and rinsed it out in a bowl of warm soapy water. Then thoroughly air dried it and put it back. Has worked perfectly ever since except the distance run had increased by 5,000 miles. Luckily a boat's second hand values are not measured like a car's!
 

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SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
I appreciate very much the quick and indepth response, I will take the instrument apart and take a look inside, will post my results. I noted your flag, is there such a Hunter Association?
Appreciate very much all responders.
Gene :)
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Hi Gene,
Pls see updated 'High Water Mark' picture. Now updated as original got cropped in transmission.

The "Legend Owners Association" is the UK assoc for Hunter boats sold over this side of lthe ong pond. There is a "British Hunter" company so Hunter name could not be used over here.
Flag is now out of date as new committee voted for a redesign based on the UK agent's company logo so now it looks as if the Assoc is company run and managed - which is not the case (I hope!)
Plenty of regional US Hunter Assocs though. If you are not in touch search this site for your nearest.
 

SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
Well...I took the instrument head apart and it looks ok, I don't see any water damage inside. This particular instruments is always under the bimini top and no water can get to it except condensation. I can set the instrument in (Show) mode and everything seems to work ok, when I change it back to normal mode the 0.0 keep flashing at me :cussing:
 

SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
Upon further inspecting the display unit, I found that there is continuity between the red and black wire leading to the transducer, indicating a short between the red and black...there is no volatge reading with power on...see attached photo.
The wires coming from the transducer are blue, black & screen, which wire are suppossed to connect to the red and black on the display unit? does it make a difference?
 

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Looks as if you are measuring the continuity with the instrument still connected - so you are measuring the instrument's output and input resistances in parallel with the transducer and this reads about 2.9 ohms.
Best to unplug the instrument and only measure the transducer.
The transducer wires are blue and black which should read open circuit.

Metal cased Airmar transducers usually have an internal connection between the casing and screen wire, and often an internal connection between black and screen as well.
Plastic transducers do not have any internal connection to the screen.

The blue transducer wire goes to instrument red, the black to instrument black.
The screen (bare) might also to black on connector to instrument or may be left not connected. See if you get any interference.
See my home made sketch attached herewith, also showing the ST50 SeaTalk data connections .
 

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SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
Shouldn't I measure a voltage going to the transducer? The transducer itself has no voltage and gets the operating power from the seatalk cables. When I measured the wires from the display unit leading to the transducer there was no power on either black or red wire. I did not measure the transducer blue and black for ohms.
I want to thank you for all your efforts in trying to help me.
Gene
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Nope. The transducer is entirely passive and only receives a burst of high frequency (200 kHz) energy from the instrument. This is not really measurable on a meter and needs an oscilloscope to see it. The voltage seen on a scope is AC and is 700v peak to peak (250V RMS), the burst of energy is only 400µsec long and repeats less than once per second. It is too short and too infrequent for a meter to read.
I have a drawing of my 'scope trace but feel it is beyond the scope (no pun intended) of this discussion to attach.
 

SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
I defer the knowledge to you, which seems to be substantial and very in depth, I am a mechanical engineer with basic knowledge of elctricity...so based on previous discussion do you think it is the transducer or the display unit at fault?, should I send the display unit to Raymarine to be checked?, if it is the transducer it will have to wait until late September to pull the boat out.
Again, thank you kindly for your help
Gene
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Once hauled out you will still not be able to run the sounder as they only give a response when immersed - so, unless you can find a friend with similar setup who will let you try your instrument, or get hold of a spare transducer; I see the only way is to have the instrument checked.
Any local electronics repairer/installer of marine instrumentation should be able to do this because he would/should have a transducer lying about. Why not enquire locally?
I have a 6' length of 6" diameter plastic underground drain pipe stood on end with a bung in the bottom. I fill it with water and hang the xducer in the top just to get a reading.
Not very scientific and does not check the receiver sensitivity though - but it does indicate yes or no.
 

SunCat

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May 19, 2004
41
Hunter 35.5 Cheboygan, MI
To end this tread...I purchased the ST60plus depth unit with a transducer included, the culprit on the ST50 was the display unit and not the transducer, now I have a working depth sounder and a transducer as spare...all is well again.
I want to thank you all that supported me in troubleshooting this particular problem, it is a great forum to be part of.
Gene
 
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