SSB Install on a Boat with No Back Stay?

sailaway78 · Jan 14, 2013

Once had a friend

Several years ago who was a ham operator. He had an antenna mounted on the stern rail. Not familiar at all with ham, but this antenna was not an 8' whip, and had a coil at the bottom. It worked pretty good during a gulf crossing.

Brian D · Jan 14, 2013

Bowedtoothdoc, I would recommend you join the social group SSB and Ham Operators, http://forums.lancer.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=126, on this board. There you will find another sailor doing exactly the same.

There are other forums on the internet such as Sailnet that has a discussion group on SSB and Ham operations. We would prefer you stay with us, but it would not be fair if I did not mention that site.

One alternative is to run a 43' length of wire (one site recommends stainless steel life line) from the stern to the top of the mast. Connect to the tuner and set a counterpoise. There have been comments of good results with this application. It should be noted that the length is important as some lengths will not tune all bands. So do look around.

Again, come join us on the social group SSB and Ham Operators.

kloudie1 · Jan 14, 2013

Shakespeare makes a few long whips
http://www.jmsonline.net/shakespear...s-5208-r.htm?gclid=CI7Hn7ym6LQCFSOnPAodIG8AZw

gettinthere · Jan 14, 2013

Brian D said:
Bowedtoothdoc, I would recommend you join the social group SSB and Ham Operators, http://forums.lancer.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=126, on this board. There you will find another sailor doing exactly the same.

There are other forums on the internet such as Sailnet that has a discussion group on SSB and Ham operations. We would prefer you stay with us, but it would not be fair if I did not mention that site.

Again, come join us on the social group SSB and Ham Operators.

Using my android device & the android ap for SBO, I see a social group forum but it comes up empty. Does that ssb forum not work with the ap?

Brian D · Jan 14, 2013

I know it not to be empty, however, you may have to join the group. I am not 100% sure having been away for several years. I hope Phil can give me a little hope on this one.

Or... try this link: http://forums.lancer.sailboatowners.com/group.php?groupid=17

windward54 · Jan 14, 2013

The SSB forum doesn't come up on the app, and can only be accessed through the website. I mentioned this to Phil, but it looks like this is a limitation of the app. So if you go to the SBO regular website and click on the Forums tab, we are there at towards the bottom (fourth from the bottom of the list) of the page. I think you can read the Forum without joining, but I'm not sure. I do know that you have to join the Social Group to be able to post to the Forum.

Bill Roosa · Jan 14, 2013

Try setting the app to 144.2 MHz. the calling freq on the 70 cm band (yuck yuck yuck)
Seriously you can get by with a lot less than a 42' wire. the important part is the antenna ground return. Seeing as you are setting in salt water it behooves you to take advantage of that by installing something that actually is in direct contact with the seawater and is as "shortly" connected to the antenna (probably the tuner) ground as possible. Don't believe those folks that want you to cover the boat in copper ribbon. It works but just barely. And a keel ground is not what you want either. It has to be in contact with or near the surface. all the return current is withing the first 1/8 of an inch of the water surface. The keel is too deep to be an effective RF ground. Without a good ground return your results, no matter how technically correct will be for naught.
Do you know what band(s) you want to play on? 20 meters is the best for having openings both day and night and lower 40/80/160 being better at night and higher bands in the day but they have a lot more noise and are open at the whims of the solar fairies.
Are you interested in phone or digital or both? CW?

KJ4LYH

RichH · Jan 14, 2013

Here's a possibility for a folded dipole to fit 'over' one of your cap shrouds. Such antennas simply are slipped over existing wire stays.

Ive been using such in a backstay application for several years with very good reception. Better was when I had to replace my backstay, the GAM simply 'unslipped' from the old stay and was simply slipped onto the new .... no hardware changes, no costly insulated parts (insulators, etc.) 'redo' etc. For a cap stay installation the only problem I can visualize would be to avoid the spreader end, simply 'route inside' of this area and use tie-wraps to hold in place on the 'inside aspect' of the spreader boot. Greatly reduced 'precipitation static' with this type of SSB/HF antenna.

http://www.gamelectronicsinc.com/products/gam-mckim-split-lead-antenna

Jeff Jellick · Jan 14, 2013

Bowedtoothdoc,

We installed an ICOM M802 SSB on our 2006 Hunter 45 Center Cockpit, and like you we did not have a backstay. We used the Shakespeare 5308 wip antenna, mounted on the transom, and attached a stand-off bracket to the rear arch to support it. You may also like to check out the "KISS-SSB" ground plane system.

Jeff
S/V Sooooo Lucky
Hunter 45 CC

Brian D · Jan 14, 2013

I believe Mackay and Harris also make SSB for shipboard operations, but it seems that yes, Icom is the 'only' game in town. I was going to put my TS-50S on the boat but it is now kaput!

As for the 43 foot antenna, yes it can be shorter. 43 was the recommendation but as long as the total length of the wire from the tuner to wherever is at a minimum 1/4 wave on the lowest operating frequency, and not a half wave on any 'working' frequency, it will tune. Or so the theory goes.

Personally, I think a vertical belongs on a power boat, not a sailboat, with the exception of the VHF on top of the mast. But this is JMHO though.

windward54 · Jan 14, 2013

The nice thing about the ICOM M802 is that the radio is legal to be used on both the Ham and the Marine bands. And it you are going to install a PACTOR modem, it'll be a snap.

Gary at Dockside Radio is great to work with and really understands sailboats and radios. He's never too busy to take a phone call and talk about any issue that may come up in your installation.

Brian D · Jan 15, 2013

I would think just by going to this link - http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/group.php?groupid=17 - that you would see Join Group on the right side about one third down the page. Being a moderator, I do not see what you guys see (sorry).

If you have any issues just shoot me an email and I will look into it.

You can use a Ham rig in lieu of a Marine SSB, but not for the Marine Bands. I guess if you had an emergency and you called for assistance on the Marine Bands they wouldn't get too upset. But being on a lake, wouldn't VHF cover that? My knowledge of Lake Lanier is very limited. If you were on one of the Great Lakes I guess you would need HF SSB.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I was going to put my TS-50S on the boat. You might also look at Ebay for a M7xx series Icom radio. They are a grand or two from what I saw. Might not be as flexible as the M8xx series.

Good luck.

windward54 · Jan 15, 2013

Brian has it kind'a right. If you go to the social group page using the link above, about four lines down on the left side of the page you will see the heading of Social Group in a gray bar. Just follow the gray bar over to the right side of the screen and there will be a link that says Join Group. Click on the link and you should be added to the group.

The M802 does cost, but you can get the entire radio kit from dockside for under $3K. The rest of the money is for the modem, which you can add later. The P4Dragon PACTOR modem can always be added at a later time, and it is running around $2K. If it is just the radio you need, you might want to bite the bullet. When I thought about it, it didn't make sense to to an installation, only to have to modify it later for the radio I really needed. But that was just me.

RichH · Jan 15, 2013

Bowedtoothdoc said:
Thanks Everyone,
I still have a couple of questions:

How do I register for the SSB Forum?

Given the cost of the Icom 802 system at 5 grand, I would like to explore less expensive options.
Like a mobile ham unit that could transmit on SSB Frequencies in an emergency and later could be used as a backup to the 802. Since my boat is on a inland lake and I won't be crusing anytime soon :-(

Watch Ebay and Craigs list for the Icom 802 & 710s, etc. and AT140, etc. tuners .. typical 'bargain' prices can be below $2000 and $200 respectively. $1200-1500 for the 710s.
"Used" will be cheaper.
Also when in coastal areas, stop in at the various 'marine radio' shops as they can sometimes offer VERY GOOD prices on Icom stuff, sometimes much lower than the internet and 'box stores'.

gettinthere · Jan 16, 2013

I can log into the ssb forum but when I try to post I am denied access, even tho I am logged in.

I am using a Droid 3 smartphone. Wifi is useless here.

Brian D · Jan 16, 2013

Gettinthere, I don't see you on the members list. Have you "joined" the group yet? If not, that would be one reason why you cannot post. Let me know if you have issues joining.