In June's Lattitude 38 there is a letter from a sailor whose stainless steel swivel broke, nearly causing their boat to go aground. In the editor's reply, they commented that different swivels are made with different quality. I've read on this forum some who advise against using a stainless steel swivel. How many of you use one, how many don't? Also, any advice as far as manufacturers? Finally, do the galvanized swivelling shackles pass over a bow roller as easily? Any other comments on this issue?
SS anchor swivels
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we've used a stainless swivel on our main anchor for 9 years now without any problem-it's important to use a high quality, properly sized swivel and inspect it frequently. Any stressed part, including conventional galvanized shackles, can fail from crevice corrosion or overload. IMHO, standard shackles don't work well with our anchor rollers and I think it helps keep the anchor aligned on the bottom with a swivel.
Don't see the point of a swivel. Surely 1 or 200 feet of chain can absorb a rotation or two (which will come out when you raise the anchor anyway). Fails the KISS test.
I don't use one but don't see anything wrong with one either. One ocurrence does not make a case; chains and anchors can also fail. All ground tackle should be adequately sized and of good quality, it should be inspected frequently and cared for.
I've never
Personally I've never found the need to use a swivel and I've used both all chain and chain/rode. I have seen and heard of a few broken ones and prefer to just use load rated shackles, chain and rode. As others have said KISS. Even with all the tide and wind shifts we get up here rode twist has never even so much as made me think about adding a swivel.
Rode twist can be more prevalent and tougher to deal with when using all chain though so in some case a swivel might be needed. If you're going to be anchored in one spot for weeks on end I can & could see the need for a swivel but I personally would not use stainless for that application. But that is me.
Some of these swivels, such as the Suncor & the Kong, do not even have a way, other than using Loc-Tite, of mousing or securing the pins. I would have a real tough time trusting my boat to Loc-Tite glued pins when it is sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Loc-Tite is great stuff but I do prefer to mechanically wire my pins shut.. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious but I have rarely if ever heard of a Crosby or CM load rated galvanized shackle failing and have read of stainless swivel failures.
It is my understanding that the swivel failure in Latitude 38 was a 3 1/2 year old Kong and that West Marine is now investigating the failure. Apparently WM claims to have sold over 3000 of them and not had any failures though they do make mention of the screw pins being a potential problem point. It will be interesting to see what they find.
One key that I saw from the photo of that failed swivel is that it was connected directly to the anchor shank. These swivels are not really designed for taking side loads. If using one I would prefer it to be between two links of chain so it would not see as much side loading.
Personally I've never found the need to use a swivel and I've used both all chain and chain/rode. I have seen and heard of a few broken ones and prefer to just use load rated shackles, chain and rode. As others have said KISS. Even with all the tide and wind shifts we get up here rode twist has never even so much as made me think about adding a swivel.
Rode twist can be more prevalent and tougher to deal with when using all chain though so in some case a swivel might be needed. If you're going to be anchored in one spot for weeks on end I can & could see the need for a swivel but I personally would not use stainless for that application. But that is me.
Some of these swivels, such as the Suncor & the Kong, do not even have a way, other than using Loc-Tite, of mousing or securing the pins. I would have a real tough time trusting my boat to Loc-Tite glued pins when it is sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Loc-Tite is great stuff but I do prefer to mechanically wire my pins shut.. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious but I have rarely if ever heard of a Crosby or CM load rated galvanized shackle failing and have read of stainless swivel failures.
It is my understanding that the swivel failure in Latitude 38 was a 3 1/2 year old Kong and that West Marine is now investigating the failure. Apparently WM claims to have sold over 3000 of them and not had any failures though they do make mention of the screw pins being a potential problem point. It will be interesting to see what they find.
One key that I saw from the photo of that failed swivel is that it was connected directly to the anchor shank. These swivels are not really designed for taking side loads. If using one I would prefer it to be between two links of chain so it would not see as much side loading.
First, if you're planning on anchoring out for extended periods of time, I think that oxygen deprivation and crevice corrosion become issues. Second, as Maine Sail said, side loading of swivels is often a failure cause and often at loads far below their maximum load rating.
I would recommend sticking with a load-rated shackle instead. While you may not have heard many stories, how many people have depended on a stainless steel swivel and had it fail during a bad storm and survived to tell about it may not be a very high percentage.
Just some food for thought. I'd also point out that stainless steel often has a much lower tensile strength than steel for a given diameter.
I would recommend sticking with a load-rated shackle instead. While you may not have heard many stories, how many people have depended on a stainless steel swivel and had it fail during a bad storm and survived to tell about it may not be a very high percentage.
Just some food for thought. I'd also point out that stainless steel often has a much lower tensile strength than steel for a given diameter.
You might be interested in this
started well before Latitude 38 was published this month.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html
started well before Latitude 38 was published this month.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html
shackle or connecting link?
So, for anchoring overnight, do people recommend using a shackle or a connecting link?
So, for anchoring overnight, do people recommend using a shackle or a connecting link?
John
Anchoring is anchoring, and either for an hour or an overnight, I want my boat safe and secure. Shouldn't make a difference.
A connecting link is for "splicing" lengths of chain and goes in the middle of two lengths of chain, in our case one end is at the rode the other end of the chain is at the anchor. Each end has a shackle. The connecting link is sized appropriately to the anchor system size, must obviously meet the chain size and its strength must be carefully checked. The link should also be checked regularly.
Swivels? forgettem...
I'd point out that connecting links, regardless of type, become a major weak point in the anchor rode, and should be avoided if at all possible. Also, in many cases, they will cause the chain to jump out of the windlass gypsy, which can be a danger to the person retrieving the anchor rode.
I have chain and rope rode. If i want to lengthen my chain, I should not add lenth by using a link but disgard my current chain and buy new chain in one piece. Is that what I'm hearing or am I misunderstanding.
Repair links..
Using two load rated shackles is a far safer bet than using a "lap link" or chain splicing link. The safe working load of a 1/4" lap link, for 1/4" chain, from CM is 325 pounds.
The working load limit of a Crosby 1/4" shackle is 1000 pounds. Working load for Crosby includes any side loading. The proof load for the Crosby 1/4" shackle is 2000 pounds which excludes any side loading. For a chaion splice you would NOT have any side loading so 2000 pounds SWL vs. 350 pounds. The ultimate max strength is a 6:1 based on working load.
1/4" ACCO chain has a WLL of around 2600 pounds vs. 350 of a lap link. The clincher is that with a lap link you need to use a 1/4" for 1/4" chain but with shackles you can go up one size to 5/16". A Crosby 5/16" shackle gives a proof load (with no side loading) of 3000 pounds and 1500 pounds with side loading.
Hope this info helps as to why one would not want to use a lap link or chain repair link...
Gary,
Using two load rated shackles is a far safer bet than using a "lap link" or chain splicing link. The safe working load of a 1/4" lap link, for 1/4" chain, from CM is 325 pounds.
The working load limit of a Crosby 1/4" shackle is 1000 pounds. Working load for Crosby includes any side loading. The proof load for the Crosby 1/4" shackle is 2000 pounds which excludes any side loading. For a chaion splice you would NOT have any side loading so 2000 pounds SWL vs. 350 pounds. The ultimate max strength is a 6:1 based on working load.
1/4" ACCO chain has a WLL of around 2600 pounds vs. 350 of a lap link. The clincher is that with a lap link you need to use a 1/4" for 1/4" chain but with shackles you can go up one size to 5/16". A Crosby 5/16" shackle gives a proof load (with no side loading) of 3000 pounds and 1500 pounds with side loading.
Hope this info helps as to why one would not want to use a lap link or chain repair link...
Connecting links
are NOT lap links. And for those of us WITHOUT windlasses, they work just fine to "extend" the length of chain. My hands have NO trouble whatsoever pulling up the connecting link.
The connecting link is rated 1,325 # for our 1/4 inch chain, which itself, for worst case proof coil, is 1250#. I peened the rivets myself, and check it regularly.
A lap link is useless and is only rated at 400 #. That is NOT a connecting link.
Two load rated shackles would work just as well, although the shackle at the chain-rode coming over our bow roller are a real pain, so I've tried to minimize them.
The left is a Lap link, the right is a connecting link.
are NOT lap links. And for those of us WITHOUT windlasses, they work just fine to "extend" the length of chain. My hands have NO trouble whatsoever pulling up the connecting link.
The connecting link is rated 1,325 # for our 1/4 inch chain, which itself, for worst case proof coil, is 1250#. I peened the rivets myself, and check it regularly.
A lap link is useless and is only rated at 400 #. That is NOT a connecting link.
Two load rated shackles would work just as well, although the shackle at the chain-rode coming over our bow roller are a real pain, so I've tried to minimize them.
The left is a Lap link, the right is a connecting link.
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In my case, I'd not be using it to extend the length of the chain (add another piece) but to connect the chain to the anchor. In that case, my only concerns are strength and ease of which it passes over the bow roller. So from what I'm reading, then I could simply use an oversized chain link, which would be strong enough but would pass over the roller more easily than a shackle (and since it's at the end of the chain, I don't have to worry about its passing through the windlass). Is that right?
Anchor Connectors - not swivels
You could do that (but how ya gonna connect that last chain link to the anchor?!?) or use an "anchor connector" which is NOT a swivel.
We have a shackle connecting our rode to the anchor chain. I used to have a chain to rope splice on our old anchor setup, and will do so again eventually with our new Rocna anchor and new chain to eliminate that shackle. A shackle at the anchor itself is a bear to get over our bow roller. I can deal manually with the shackle at the rode/chain meeting point, since there's still some play in the line with the chain still down, but it's so much easier with the chain to rode splice.
The anchor connector is not a problem, since it's designed to flow over the roller, compared to another shackle at the anchor/chain connection.
Looks like this from WM's website.
John,
You could do that (but how ya gonna connect that last chain link to the anchor?!?
) or use an "anchor connector" which is NOT a swivel. We have a shackle connecting our rode to the anchor chain. I used to have a chain to rope splice on our old anchor setup, and will do so again eventually with our new Rocna anchor and new chain to eliminate that shackle. A shackle at the anchor itself is a bear to get over our bow roller. I can deal manually with the shackle at the rode/chain meeting point, since there's still some play in the line with the chain still down, but it's so much easier with the chain to rode splice.
The anchor connector is not a problem, since it's designed to flow over the roller, compared to another shackle at the anchor/chain connection.
Looks like this from WM's website.
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Here we go again!
Okay, the non-swivel anchor connector looks like a plan... except that it looks like it's stainless steel. Isn't that what I'm trying to avoid in the first place?
Okay, the non-swivel anchor connector looks like a plan... except that it looks like it's stainless steel. Isn't that what I'm trying to avoid in the first place?
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