Spring, back at it. Tangling with the cockpit.

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I've been putting this off too long. I was beginning to think I'd just wait to replace the cockpit but decided to keep what's there going for now.

Amazingly, it's in pretty good shape. The area aft of the wheel is springy, at best. I think my cockpit is mostly original. Well, in two days, I began taking more apart than I thought. That's good and bad. Good in that I can now see an easy way to slide a beam under the springy area in the sole and easily fasten etc under the steering gear.

Bad in that I decided to pull the piece outside of the locker hatch that's fastened to the bottom of the coamings. It was sagging and the lockers have always been wet. Alden built a network of little wooden gutters below the piano hinges. At his point, I have most removed on the starboard side, and will rebedd and refasten the whole shebang. I'm curious to see if this gutter system ever worked.

Things are not so bad. The cockpit well sides are a nicely joined box of mahagony. The corners were joined with hand cut dovetails. Unfortunately, one corner had some rot and destroyed much of the joinery. Because it is one of the aft corners, I'll cover each with a small board(that will show slightly) and use these to refasten the corners from the back.

Other than putting it all back together, all is amazingly sound. I won't pull the port side apart instead just refasten after forcing some bedding into the open joint bedtween the seat back and the coaming.



The manhole came in very handy for removing the varnish and sanding. The wood is miraculously preserved in this area of little sun.

My bridgedeck leaks into the galley and has always been a problem. I think this leak has several potential areas to originate from. After I've tested some cures, I'll report if I've found solutions. I set a guide on the bridgedeck and ploughed 3/16" grooves between the 3 boards that lay ontop of the plywood subdeck. Curiously, I think I found some fiberglass material about half way, 3/8" from the surface. The cuts only go in about 5/16". I then taped and added polysulfide caulking. After a couple days drying, I sanded the seams flush. I did this same treatment to the hatch top boards, the single joint. Time will tell. I took this shot for another board for diesel injectors. I pulled mine and had them serviced. It was a much simpler job than I expected and seems to have cured a thick black sooty exhaust and slow starting from my Nissan SD 22 diesel.


And then,....still a leak! I know all the avenues of water into the galley and had repaired, rebedded them all. (another thread if anyone is interested). Yet a few drops came through the bridgedeck to cabin back area.

The piece you see in the first photo is the original covering board. I removed it and rebedded it just 3 years ago(should last a decade or more). Determined to get to the bottom, once and for all, I tried pulling it. No go, destroyed it as the polysulfide was fresh and tenacious. But lo and behold, underneath, the proof. Dark moist area, two actually, where water had gotten behind the covering board and eventually made a path to the galley. The reason was evident, poor bedding on my part. Unless the bedding compound fills the entire area behind the covering board, or hatch flange, or thru hull flange etc. the compound cannot do what it was designed to do. A small crack allowed water behind the covering board. In time the tiny pry bars of water wedged through the seam of compound.

The bedding surface must be clean and free of debris, the screws or bolts must be free to turn in the matting piece freely, and they must cinch the piece down like a screw clamp into the bedding surface. Proper fasteners and pilot holes.

Next, you can't be timid with bedding compound. Unless enough is applied to allow a full squeeze out on all sides, it's poor joint. This is simple, yet I obviously scrimped on this last time. A well bedded joint can last a long, long time. I'm leaving the oval head screws exposed, for now, just case. I can sink and plug if it works.



Is this the end of my galley leak? I'll let you know and how I fixed it.
 
Apr 7, 2006
103
For some reason the side gutters have been filled in so nothing is working. We're getting our courage up to dig them out or rout them out- looks like they would work fine. Right not our locker tops sit on top of the seat rather than flush- not good either as it tends to spring the hinge etc.

The side walls of the cockpit have really weather and I cann't sand them enough to bring back that great color- I think we will try and do a stain & varnish for now.
 
Feb 1, 2006
41
Seems to me that the problem with the dovetail corners, the sides meeting at the bottom, and the ends of the gutters is that there is, so far as I know, no room for sealants. Out in the field of an old style plank deck, the seams are 1/8" wide and take up the movement in the width of the planks. That's much tougher where wood grain is not parallel but intersects. You cannot expect bedding to work because there's no compliance in the sealants.

LeComte went a long way toward dealing with that issue in their own boats, but I don't know if the same detail was done on LeComte-built Challengers or the others, either. LeComte spaced intersecting and parallel pieces of wood apart by 1/8" on the weather side and filled the joint with sealant. Hatch frames and the hatches themselves are that way. The companionway slide is that way. The cockpit seat lids are as well. It looks a little funny to see the line of sealant at the corners of a hatch frame, but, 37 years later, they're still watertight. It's also hard to keep the varnish intact across wood and sealant. Interestingly, the intersecting pieces of coaming (aft corners) are butted, but those joints do not need to be watertight on a fiberglass decked boat. The cockpit seats have the same sort of gutters (and internal copper tube rain water conductors, too!) but they're fiberglass. The ends of your wood gutters could/should have the room for sealant, too.

Perhaps you can dig the filler out of your gutters and allow the lids back where they belong but you may find a bad repair or concealed rot: good luck! As you suffer with your gutters, I'll be suffering with ours. Yours may be rotten and leaking, but some of ours are cracked and freeze damaged. This must be a difficult problem; our lids bind on the fiberglass and bend the hinges, too. And the front edges of the two large lids have a tacky little bronze weatherstrip/drip that is content to take little shavings off my person!
 
Apr 7, 2006
103
The loose screws on the corners have a surprisingly strong "bite" for just a little #8 flat head- keeps you alert at the helm though!