Hello all, What is the simplest way to do a splice on a double braided line. Also - are there any techniques that dont involve a FID - or put another way, what can I use anything else in lieu of a FID? Thanx all.
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rope splice
The link below is a great site for rope splicing info, and I'm sure you need a fid or something close.
The link below is a great site for rope splicing info, and I'm sure you need a fid or something close.
In order to splice double braid
you must pull the core on one line into the sheath of the other line. and vise versa. The best way I have seen to do this is with Brian Toss' splicing wand. link:https://satsop.olympus.net/wkstone/webkeystone.py?UserID=biz_briontoss&Profile=[shopper:entry/enter.prof]
you must pull the core on one line into the sheath of the other line. and vise versa. The best way I have seen to do this is with Brian Toss' splicing wand. link:https://satsop.olympus.net/wkstone/webkeystone.py?UserID=biz_briontoss&Profile=[shopper:entry/enter.prof]
the Super Snake makes it much easier
Tony: I imagine you're talking about an EYE splice into double braid? It's pretty intimidating the first time you try it - but 3 or 4 practice splices and you'll be splicing like a pro. As Ross says, the tricky part is that the inner braid has to pass through a curved section of the outer braid; and that - worse - the outer braid has to pass through a curved section of the inner. This is tricky stuff. Also, most of the fids (tools you use to use to push or pull line-through-line) don't help much because they're stiff - can't make the curves. Enter the Fid-O Super Snake (see link). This is a GREAT flexible tool for accomplishing the splice. I haven't seen it in West Marine or any of the other stores, so you have to order it online. I HIGHLY recommend it. And it costs less than $10! (Fid-O also make a tool for splicing regular 3-part line. Looks good. But I haven't tried it: therefore not in a position to recommend it.) There's also a knots book that does a good job of explaining the how-tos. I'll look it up and refer you to it (if I can find it at home!) Dick
Tony: I imagine you're talking about an EYE splice into double braid? It's pretty intimidating the first time you try it - but 3 or 4 practice splices and you'll be splicing like a pro. As Ross says, the tricky part is that the inner braid has to pass through a curved section of the outer braid; and that - worse - the outer braid has to pass through a curved section of the inner. This is tricky stuff. Also, most of the fids (tools you use to use to push or pull line-through-line) don't help much because they're stiff - can't make the curves. Enter the Fid-O Super Snake (see link). This is a GREAT flexible tool for accomplishing the splice. I haven't seen it in West Marine or any of the other stores, so you have to order it online. I HIGHLY recommend it. And it costs less than $10! (Fid-O also make a tool for splicing regular 3-part line. Looks good. But I haven't tried it: therefore not in a position to recommend it.) There's also a knots book that does a good job of explaining the how-tos. I'll look it up and refer you to it (if I can find it at home!) Dick
here's a good set of instructions
This splice is hard to explain. I'm pretty good at executing it at this point - and even now, can't really get my head around why and how it works! So you need a good set of instructions. I've looked at a bunch of these. By far the simplest, in my humble o, is the Toss book "Knots for Boaters". (The link takes you to it in Amazon, but I believe you might find it in stock in Barnes & Noble etc.) To give you an idea: Toss spends 8 pages walking you through how to do this splice! If you're like me, you'll definitely need to do 3 or 4 practice splices in scrap line to get this down. Hang in there, though: it's not as tricky to execute as it is to read about in the instructions. And, like making mayonnaise from scratch: at the end, there's this moment of magic where it all comes together and you look in amazement asking yourself 'how did I do that?' As for "the simplest way" to do the splice: I'm not sure I'd use the word 'simple' to describe it! Dick
This splice is hard to explain. I'm pretty good at executing it at this point - and even now, can't really get my head around why and how it works! So you need a good set of instructions. I've looked at a bunch of these. By far the simplest, in my humble o, is the Toss book "Knots for Boaters". (The link takes you to it in Amazon, but I believe you might find it in stock in Barnes & Noble etc.) To give you an idea: Toss spends 8 pages walking you through how to do this splice! If you're like me, you'll definitely need to do 3 or 4 practice splices in scrap line to get this down. Hang in there, though: it's not as tricky to execute as it is to read about in the instructions. And, like making mayonnaise from scratch: at the end, there's this moment of magic where it all comes together and you look in amazement asking yourself 'how did I do that?' As for "the simplest way" to do the splice: I'm not sure I'd use the word 'simple' to describe it! Dick
Not TOOOOOOOOOO Difficult
There is no simple way to splice a double braided line, but its not that difficult if you S-L-O-W-L-Y follow the instructions that come with the fid kit. Also there is free instructions on the internet from one of the most popular rope manufacturers. Go to samsonrope.com. I looked at the website for the supersnake and i fail to see how it works. normally you have to remove the center core then feed the outer core through it. the fit is so tight, there is no way that i can see how you can pull a folded piece of rope through that little 'tunnel'. That is why most fid kits use the 'pushing ' technique. I noticed also that the designer of the super snake wants you to buy his video on how to use it. How simple can that be? Dick Westwood wrote...."This is tricky stuff. Also, most of the fids (tools you use to use to push or pull line-through-line) don't help much because they're stiff - can't make the curves. I fail to see why anyone would need to make curves while splicing. I have made many dozens of small eye splices on double braided polyester for halyards. The technique using the fid does not require you to bend the rope with the fid in it. Anyway, it takes patience, and slow reading of the instructions. Good luck.
There is no simple way to splice a double braided line, but its not that difficult if you S-L-O-W-L-Y follow the instructions that come with the fid kit. Also there is free instructions on the internet from one of the most popular rope manufacturers. Go to samsonrope.com. I looked at the website for the supersnake and i fail to see how it works. normally you have to remove the center core then feed the outer core through it. the fit is so tight, there is no way that i can see how you can pull a folded piece of rope through that little 'tunnel'. That is why most fid kits use the 'pushing ' technique. I noticed also that the designer of the super snake wants you to buy his video on how to use it. How simple can that be? Dick Westwood wrote...."This is tricky stuff. Also, most of the fids (tools you use to use to push or pull line-through-line) don't help much because they're stiff - can't make the curves. I fail to see why anyone would need to make curves while splicing. I have made many dozens of small eye splices on double braided polyester for halyards. The technique using the fid does not require you to bend the rope with the fid in it. Anyway, it takes patience, and slow reading of the instructions. Good luck.
Phil has heard this before...
Well, I've done a few double braidend for end splices since my first one and I don't know about slowly-but expensive might be the right term. I have a double braid reefing line for my mainsail on my Hunter 380. It came undone so I thought I would just buy some new line and replace it. Can't be that hard, can it? So I bought the line at WM ($63) and a video tape by Brion Toss ($19.95 bucks). Brion uses a special wand so I bought that as well ($49.95) and went home to watch the tape. Brion demonstrates a number of spices and it was somewheres in the middle that I got to watch how to do the end for end spice. Didn't seem that hard. So then down to the boat, take off the old line and reeve in the new. I lined up the ends of the new line, cut them to have the proper length and started in. I couldn't remember all the instructions on the tape and afraid I might confuse some of the earlier instructions for eye splices and such went back to WM and bought Brion's book ($29.95). Back to the boat and I start in by measuring, marking and pulling the inside out of the outside. Now I take the wand, hook it up to either the inside or the outside--I don't remember-- and start to push it through the other part. It won't go and I remember on the tape Brion made it look so easy. I struggled and struggled. Back home I watch the damn tape again and it jams in my video machine. No problem. I ease the tape out and rewind by hand and then take the video player apart, clean and put it back together. I watch the tape. Back to the boat. The wand still will not go through the other line and I BREAK the wand tip. Damn. I go home steaming and watch the tape another time and this time it jams the video player and wrecks the tape. I am besides myself--the cats and the wife dissapear. Back to the WM and buy a new wand ($49.95) and a new tape ($19.95). I stop off at an electronics store and buy another video tape player and off course I can't get the cheap one--but got to have all the bells and whistles that I haven't used yet ($399). Back home I hook up the new player, put in the new tape and watch it one more time--back to the boat, try it one more time and I break the second wand! Trust me life was not pretty at that point. What in h... was I doing wrong? Back home I watch the tape one more time before I toss everything out with the idea that the boating gods hate me. And there it was, you PULL not PUSH the wand with the attched braid. Back at the boat I took one of the broken wands, got it to work enough that I was able to pull the line through the other and it finally was finished. Some sewing like Brion says and it was complete. On the way home I stoped off at the electronics store and bought a 12 volt monitor and player combined (on special for $99.) so that the next time I did this stunt I would have the tape and the book right where I was working. Brion felt so sorry for me that he repaired both wands only after he could stop laughing. You don't get much sympathy from boating crowd. It only cost me around $700 dollars to do my first spice. True story--would I lie to you? I've already helped another H380 owner replace and spice his roller furling line. I'm getting good at it. Les
Well, I've done a few double braidend for end splices since my first one and I don't know about slowly-but expensive might be the right term. I have a double braid reefing line for my mainsail on my Hunter 380. It came undone so I thought I would just buy some new line and replace it. Can't be that hard, can it? So I bought the line at WM ($63) and a video tape by Brion Toss ($19.95 bucks). Brion uses a special wand so I bought that as well ($49.95) and went home to watch the tape. Brion demonstrates a number of spices and it was somewheres in the middle that I got to watch how to do the end for end spice. Didn't seem that hard. So then down to the boat, take off the old line and reeve in the new. I lined up the ends of the new line, cut them to have the proper length and started in. I couldn't remember all the instructions on the tape and afraid I might confuse some of the earlier instructions for eye splices and such went back to WM and bought Brion's book ($29.95). Back to the boat and I start in by measuring, marking and pulling the inside out of the outside. Now I take the wand, hook it up to either the inside or the outside--I don't remember-- and start to push it through the other part. It won't go and I remember on the tape Brion made it look so easy. I struggled and struggled. Back home I watch the damn tape again and it jams in my video machine. No problem. I ease the tape out and rewind by hand and then take the video player apart, clean and put it back together. I watch the tape. Back to the boat. The wand still will not go through the other line and I BREAK the wand tip. Damn. I go home steaming and watch the tape another time and this time it jams the video player and wrecks the tape. I am besides myself--the cats and the wife dissapear. Back to the WM and buy a new wand ($49.95) and a new tape ($19.95). I stop off at an electronics store and buy another video tape player and off course I can't get the cheap one--but got to have all the bells and whistles that I haven't used yet ($399). Back home I hook up the new player, put in the new tape and watch it one more time--back to the boat, try it one more time and I break the second wand! Trust me life was not pretty at that point. What in h... was I doing wrong? Back home I watch the tape one more time before I toss everything out with the idea that the boating gods hate me. And there it was, you PULL not PUSH the wand with the attched braid. Back at the boat I took one of the broken wands, got it to work enough that I was able to pull the line through the other and it finally was finished. Some sewing like Brion says and it was complete. On the way home I stoped off at the electronics store and bought a 12 volt monitor and player combined (on special for $99.) so that the next time I did this stunt I would have the tape and the book right where I was working. Brion felt so sorry for me that he repaired both wands only after he could stop laughing. You don't get much sympathy from boating crowd. It only cost me around $700 dollars to do my first spice. True story--would I lie to you? I've already helped another H380 owner replace and spice his roller furling line. I'm getting good at it. Les
Marlow Needles
On a busy day I do 15-20 eye splices in an afternoon. I HATE Samson Fids and Pushers. Toss's wand is okay but, like fids, you need a few of them to cover lines from 3/16 - 5/8. I use Marlow Needles and Selma Fids. The two Marlow Needles will handle splicing down to 3/16 and up to 5/8 or so. The Selma Fids do 3-Strand and Spectra. There is no need to have a flexible fid. Brion Toss's method and measurements work very well. Most instructions have you insert the cover into the core first, then the core through the eye and cover past the eye after. I find it much easier to pull the core through first, then work with the cover.
On a busy day I do 15-20 eye splices in an afternoon. I HATE Samson Fids and Pushers. Toss's wand is okay but, like fids, you need a few of them to cover lines from 3/16 - 5/8. I use Marlow Needles and Selma Fids. The two Marlow Needles will handle splicing down to 3/16 and up to 5/8 or so. The Selma Fids do 3-Strand and Spectra. There is no need to have a flexible fid. Brion Toss's method and measurements work very well. Most instructions have you insert the cover into the core first, then the core through the eye and cover past the eye after. I find it much easier to pull the core through first, then work with the cover.
We having fun yet?
Les: Loved your story and really felt your pain. BTW, a friend of mine, who also bought and uses Brion Toss' DVD and splicing wands (and they really seem to be very good products), also has an inexpensive portable DVD player that he can watch while actually doing the splices on his boat. That may work for you. In my case, I use a straightened piece of wire coat hangar with a small hook bent to one end. Instead of needing to push covers thru cores, or the reverse, I insert the wire at the marked spot the cover/core needs to exit, push it thru to the entry spot, insert it into the cover/core and tape it there, then pull it back out. That seems to minimize jams. But like most things, performance improves with practice. I've got lots of ruined pieces of double braid from learning how to do this splice.... Also, remember that Lin and Larry Pardey don't seem to have any double braid on their boat --- at least from the pics of I've seen. They use 3-strand Dacron because it's a cinch to splice and has almost the same stretch as double braid. Just a thought...
Les: Loved your story and really felt your pain. BTW, a friend of mine, who also bought and uses Brion Toss' DVD and splicing wands (and they really seem to be very good products), also has an inexpensive portable DVD player that he can watch while actually doing the splices on his boat. That may work for you. In my case, I use a straightened piece of wire coat hangar with a small hook bent to one end. Instead of needing to push covers thru cores, or the reverse, I insert the wire at the marked spot the cover/core needs to exit, push it thru to the entry spot, insert it into the cover/core and tape it there, then pull it back out. That seems to minimize jams. But like most things, performance improves with practice. I've got lots of ruined pieces of double braid from learning how to do this splice.... Also, remember that Lin and Larry Pardey don't seem to have any double braid on their boat --- at least from the pics of I've seen. They use 3-strand Dacron because it's a cinch to splice and has almost the same stretch as double braid. Just a thought...
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